Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy Joanna Byrne. The meeting has been convened to consider the Further Revised Estimates for Public Services 2025: Vote 33 – Culture, Communications and Sport, which were referred to the committee by Dáil Éireann. I welcome the Minister, Deputy Patrick O’Donovan, and his officials to the committee. As the Minister is present, it is not expected that officials will speak in public session. I advise that the opening statements and any other documents submitted to the committee may be published on the committee’s website after the meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The format of the meeting is such that I will invite an opening statement from the Minister, which will then be followed by questions from members on the basis of the speaking rota that was circulated. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Before we proceed to opening statements, I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite the Minister, Deputy O’Donovan, to make his opening statement.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach agus leis an gcoiste as an deis chun imleabhar na Meastachán Athbhreithnithe don tSeirbhís Phoiblí thar ceann mo Roinne a chur in iúl mar Aire Cultúir, Cumarsáide agus Spóirt. I thank the Cathaoirleach. He will recall that I appeared before this committee on 15 July 2025 with regard to the 2025 Revised Estimates for the Department, and I thank the committee for recommending them to the Dáil at that point. I am back again today because those figures have been slightly revised due to the addition of the Irish Film Classification Office, IFCO, to my Department.

IFCO was originally established as the Irish Film Censor in 1923 and it was renamed in 2008. The office is responsible for examining and certifying cinema releases and video works distributed in Ireland. IFCO’s aim is to provide the public, particularly parents, with a modern and dependable system for classification that protects children and young persons, while having regard for freedom of expression and respect for the values of Irish society.

To give the committee an idea of the scope of IFCO, 1,365 theatrical works were classified in 2024, which is an increase of more than 20% on 2023. A total of 1,055 works have been classified to date in 2025. The preparation of the order transferring IFCO to this Department was a matter for the Department of justice. It was signed on 25 July 2025 and came into effect on 1 August 2025. That happened later than earlier transfers as both the Department of justice and my Department were focused on achieving substantive transfers in the first instance.

In the Further Revised Estimate volume under consideration, the subhead for IFCO has been aligned to the broadcasting programme C. It appears as subhead C9. In funding terms, IFCO operates a net-zero cost to the Exchequer. While there is an outlay of €772,000 to the office in terms of pay and administration, it is forecasted to take in €840,000 in classification fees for 2025. A further €60,000 has been added to the payline of my Department, represented under subhead C1, to account for full-time resources to support the organisation. This means there is a gross increase of €832,000 to my Department for 2025. However, given the level of IFCO receipts and appropriations-in-aid, there is a slight net decrease of just €8,000 against the figures the committee cleared in July. The revised overall allocation to the Department for 2025 is now €1.383 billion. This will facilitate the funding for the sectors overseen by the Department, which play a role in the quality of life and well-being of every citizen, both young and old, and are a key part of the fabric of how we express ourselves as individuals, a society and a nation.

While I do not propose to revisit the detail of this allocation, which we discussed in July, I will make a brief overview of the sectoral allocations.

The 2025 allocation for arts and culture remains at €380.993 million. While the focus of this committee appearance is about 2025, I should mention that I have secured over €384 million for the arts and culture programme for 2026. While I will no doubt come to this committee again to discuss the 2026 allocations, I would like to underline the importance of securing continued funding for the basic income for artists scheme, beyond the extension of the pilot to February 2026. I now plan to bring proposals for a successor scheme to Government, taking account of the quantitative and qualitative research, the public and stakeholder consultation feedback and the findings of the cost benefit analysis carried out on the scheme.

The communications programme area still has a total allocation of over €442 million for 2025. A key priority for me remains completing the roll-out of the national broadband plan over the coming year. Very good progress is being made on this and we are on track to deliver the deployment ahead of schedule. Over 420,000 premises are forecast to be passed by the end of 2025, with approximately 4,000 new connections now being completed monthly. Design work is completed in townlands across every county in the country. with over 567,000 premises surveyed. This programme is transformative for rural Ireland. Budget 2026 provides an allocation of €483 million for communications, of which €433 million will allow the national broadband plan to be substantially rolled out.

The broadcasting programme is where we see the change in relation to IFCO, the Irish Film Classification Office. The allocation to this programme area is now €329.768 million in 2025, representing the IFCO increase of €832,000. This allocation will continue to promote and protect the diverse and plural media sector by ensuring the provision of high-quality public service programming and public interest journalism. It will also ensure the ongoing independence and recognised integrity of our independent media to help protect a free and pluralistic media sector and to combat the growing challenge of misinformation and disinformation. It will also support online safety for children, which is a Government priority and a top priority for me as Minister. It is essential that we make sure children do not see illegal, harmful or inappropriate content while being able to safely avail of all the benefits of the online world. For the broadcasting programme, budget 2026 facilitates ongoing investment with an allocation of almost €357 million.

Finally, €230.681 million is provided for sport in 2025 in these Estimates. Sport is a central part of Irish life, from the grassroots local level right up to our elite athletes and teams. I am committed to ensuring that it continues to contribute positively to health and well-being across all elements of society. We will achieve this by continuing to invest in much-needed facilities throughout the country via allocations this year for the community sport facilities fund, CSFF, and the large-scale sport infrastructure fund, LSSIF. In addition, we have provided increased funding for Sport Ireland to support sporting organisations and programmes. As we have discussed previously, we also have a number of important major sports events planned over the next two years. A record allocation of over €290 million for 2026 allows us to maintain this strong record of delivery on the sport programme. While that has been a brief summary of the allocations for 2025, which we discussed previously in July, the core reason for my attendance today is in relation to the adjustment to the Revised Estimates as a result of the transfer order with regard to the Irish Film Classification Office, which came into effect from 1 August.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his address. We will proceed with questions and answers. It is a short slot we have today. Members will have four minutes for both questions and answers.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister. I will stick to sport. I welcome the announcement in the budget for the grassroots funding. We all do. That was reflected when the committee wrote to the Minister, despite the issues we had with the FAI at the time. Specifically to the LSSIF, I understand there was a minimal amount of €18 million sent to the LSSIF to keep it rolling over. I have some problems around the LSSIF. I will not ask the Minister for the budget for 2027 but, are we likely to see a further call for applications in the lifetime of this Government, possibly as early as 2027? Will the Minister comment on the draw down of existing allocations and where we are at with those? I am aware of a number of projects where there has been no funds drawn down. Is there a window after which funds not drawn down go back in the pot?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his remarks. I met him last night at the game. I will preface my remarks by congratulating the national team. I thank the committee for the support members gave in their comments before the budget. They were very helpful. The Deputy is right, securing the funding for grassroots football is a very positive start and quite a big start. It is €3 million, so is nothing to be sniffed at. I watched the committee's engagement with the FAI. I said publicly that no body that receives public moneys from my Department can refuse invitations to come before the committee. They must come before the committee. If there are issues sub judice or which need to be worked out, they can do that in private session, but non-attendance is not an option.

On the LSSIF, there will be one during the lifetime of the Government. We have to agree a date first. I have to bring a memorandum to Government shortly with regard to the last round of sports capital. I am going to do that soon. In terms of the effectiveness of it, I have said before to members that we do have laggards in sports capital that have had significant amounts of money allocated to them over the last number of years. Those funds are standing as a liability to the Department because they are not being drawn down. We have to address that, and we are going to address it. We will start to address it with local authorities. I am using this opportunity to again tell local authorities that if they have sports capital funding that has been allocated to them and they are not going to draw it down, I am not going to become a pen pal and I am not interested in writing letters, they have all been told that the funding will be recalled. That money will have to go back into the pot. It is totally unfair that it is standing against the Department as a liability for money that has been accrued and not drawn down. More importantly, there are communities across the country on which this money is expected to be spent. There are also communities that did not get money that could badly do with it, and I will allocate it to them instead.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will not hold the Minister to it but, are we talking about this happening shortly?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is that six months or 12 months or that type of window?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Once we have a conclusion of the community small sports capital scheme memorandum to Government, I hope that by spring 2026 I will be able to bring a recommendation to Government that we open up the CSFF and quench once and for all some of those that are hanging around longer than I am in the Dáil. I do not believe that is fair, to be honest.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Malcolm Byrne has mentioned in the past a programme for the arts that would be similar to the sports capital grant. Is there any progress on that or when are we likely to see it?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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We are likely to see it in the forthcoming year. We have a substantial amount of work done. We received an allocation under the national development plan. We will be issuing a call early in 2026 for an arts capital scheme. It will be smaller than the sports capital scheme because we want to ensure we have everything tied down first, but this will be transformative for an awful lot of communities across the country which do not have access to arts money. There may be halls that need sound systems, light systems, stages, instruments, etc. We will be making substantial changes there. We have also doubled the amount of money for small venues in respect of live music. We will be issuing a call for those early in the new year.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I apologise for missing the Minister's opening statement, but I have read his written submission.

I want to speak to the IFCO Revised Estimates on a couple of different angles, first on the independence of the organisation and, second, its revenue-generating potential. I come at this as somebody who established and led an independent State agency, namely, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, which is governed by the UN principles providing for it. I would describe it as the most independent of State agencies within the State infrastructure. It seemed to go unnoticed or unmentioned that the IFCO went from having an independently appointed director to having a Civil Service-led director within the Department. Obviously, that was while it was within the Department of justice and before it moved over to the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport. I realise this is not outlined within the Revised Estimates, but it is an important time to mention this because I see it as something we should be monitoring very carefully as a committee. It is a potential slippage of the independence of these organisations. Around the same time, we saw a senior civil servant pop out from the Department of Justice to lead An Bord Pleanála. Essentially, the change means they are independently appointed outside of the Department.

This provides prevention, in that the independence of the people leading the agencies acts as a bulwark against what we can sometimes see as groupthink within Departments or Civil Service groupings. It is important to note and to make sure we are keeping an eye on it. IFCO has a proud history within the State of providing progressive thinking about film classification, moving from the censorship office about 25 years ago to film classification.

That brings me to the second piece I wish to speak to, which is the revenue-generating potential of the organisation in the Irish Film Classification Office. We are in a disruptive moment in media. Many Oscar nominated and winning movies will go straight to streaming rather than into our cinemas. It is important that IFCO be directed to make sure it provides for us as a population, and particularly for parents, the opportunity to be guided in the content we are viewing, albeit in a way that meets the changing landscape of media. Does the Minister have anything to say about the independence of the head of IFCO and the revenue-generating potential in a changed media landscape? I would appreciate it.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I entirely reject any assertion that there would be anything other than full independence of the organisation. I mean-----

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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Does the Minister recognise that the structure of it has changed, because it has?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but I did not interrupt the Deputy. I do not accept any assertion that it is anything other than a fully independent organisation, with a person who has come through a competitive process to lead IFCO. They have my full support and full confidence. The Deputy is throwing in words like "groupthink". I have enough to be doing, and so do the civil servants, without watching films to see what classification we will put on them. It is an awful suggestion that we are somehow interfering in the role of IFCO. We are not.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I am speaking to a structural change, and I believe we have an oversight role that I do not think should be dismissed in that manner.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I have answered, and I will dismiss it, because it deserves to be dismissed.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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The Minister did not answer. He dismissed it.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I dismissed it because it deserved to be dismissed. I suggest that if the Deputy wants to bring IFCO before the committee, I imagine IFCO would have no hesitation in doing that.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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The Minister is before the committee and that is why I asked the question.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy keeps interrupting me, there is no point in my being here.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I am here to ask questions and I am not getting satisfactory answers.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Deputy, just let the Minister answer the question.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I am here to answer questions, and the Deputy made an assertion with regard to the independence of IFCO and its work vis-à-vis the relationship with the Department that I reject. If the Deputy wants to engage with IFCO, the committee should issue an invitation for it to come in.

With regard to other forms of broadcast, Coimisiún na Meán has an obvious role in online streaming and content. Since the summer, it has had an increased number of powers. We will have to make sure it is properly and adequately resourced going forward to carry out its work, which I believe it is. Today is about me getting the support of the committee for the work of the Irish Film Classification Office. That is why I am here.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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The running order, so everyone knows, will be Deputies Byrne, Brennan, Ó Snodaigh, Cleere and Carrigy and myself. We are caught for time, so it is four minutes apiece.

Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and congratulate him on the overall budget allocation. It was successful. As colleagues have spoken about, I particularly welcome the investment in sport and the League of Ireland academies.

My question is on arts and broadcasting. I welcome the commitment to extend the basic income for artists scheme. Among the 2,000 artists who are currently part of that scheme, there is a need to provide them with certainty as to whether they will continue on the scheme or whether it will be open to a wider cohort. Obviously, if those who are already on the scheme will no longer be taking part, we need to provide adequate notice to them of things moving on. Will the Minister outline in detail what his thinking is, particularly on the timeframe for those who are on the scheme or those who wish to apply to know?

I welcome that we are seeing moves in the production sector. We have a successful film and television sector in Ireland. The Minister will not be surprised to hear that I am disappointed he did not proceed with the levy to support the introduction of film, TV and animation, which this committee reckoned would cost an extra 20 or 30 cent, if the full economic cost were passed on. The Minister said he was afraid it would be passed on to the consumers. Will he comment as to why Disney+ has now announced that it will be charging consumers an extra euro per month? That will not be going to independent film and television producers and animators. This comes on top of the Netflix increase. All of those companies are taking money out of the country when they had the opportunity to invest in it through the levy the Minister refused to proceed with. Does the Minister believe Disney+ should now proceed with the €1 increase it is proposing to pass on to consumers?

In general terms, though, I am grateful for a lot of the measures in the budget.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I will take the last point first. I am not going to tell people how much they have to charge for a suite of furniture or a pound of rashers. We thankfully live in an open, liberal and modern democracy and in a market that is not a communist regime. I am not going to tell Disney how much it does or does not charge. It is a matter for the consumers to decide if they want to watch that or purchase it. There is no doubt in my mind, as I previously said to the Deputy, that any levy that has ever been imposed by the Government for any purpose is always passed on to the consumer. That is inevitable. I am sure there would be a different version of the Disney increase if I had put on that levy last year. The Deputy would now be saying it was because of me, that I had brought this upon us and that I could not only take responsibility for the Disney increase, but I could also take responsibility for the Netflix increase, so am I not glad I did not? We have said that we will monitor it over the coming three years. I told them when I met them in America about playing ball with us in respect of having a decent amount of production coming out of Ireland. There has been a strong pipeline, as Screen Ireland will tell the Deputy. I know the committee has met Screen Ireland and engaged with it. A strong pipeline has come out and there is a strong pipeline coming in. I know the Deputy's neck of the woods and that of Deputy Brennan beside it in County Wicklow have done well out of this. I know they will continue to do so.

I turn to the arts. This is the largest arts budget in the history of the State. It puts to bed once and for all the question of whether will have State support for our artists. We now have it and we have got that commitment, which is really important. As I said in my opening statement, it gives me an opportunity as regards all of the stuff the committee fed in through individual engagements and representations. The public consultation was the largest our Department had ever run. It was probably the largest most Departments had ever run. It was universally positive. Immediately after Christmas as we work through all of that, I hope to be in a position to bring forward a submission to the Government for approval on how we will move forward. I have no decisions made with regard to the existing 2,000 and I do not think it would be fair to comment on that until I have. As soon as I do, and as I previously said through the Chair, if anybody wants to send me suggestions via email or whatever now that we know we have this nailed down and that the quantum is there, I will certainly examine all suggestions. I will consider everything.

Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that. However, for those who are already in receipt of the scheme, the Minister will appreciate that they will need a bit of certainty that it will not be a cliff edge.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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We have already taken away the first cliff edge that was left for them and that should be acknowledged, too.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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My first question is on broadband. I welcome the further investment. Will the Minister give us a brief outline of the timeline? It does not have to be for the 100% roll-out.

On sports, especially major events, I would love to get feedback. We are getting such positive results. When sporting events are on in Dublin, they touch on Kerry and Galway. I am speaking to hoteliers down there. It is not just about sports and arts. The collateral positive commitments and financial gain out of this is simply incredible. I would love to hear how the likes of the American football teams feel about it. I am hearing about how we feel about it. It is a brilliant initiative and I want to see more of it.

In our previous discussion, I touched on having a level playing field in arts funding for comedians, Comhaltas and amateur drama. Have we got anywhere with that?

My last query is on the FAI, not on the field but off the field. How is it going with that organisation? There is a lot of publicity about its level of debt. Will the Minister comment on that?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Regarding Comhaltas and comedy, the Deputy knows that we have a report due from Professor Niamh Brennan in respect of the Arts Council and its governance issues. Last week, a "Prime Time Investigates" clearly demonstrated that a number of comedians had been locked out, for want of a better phrase, by the Arts Council. The Arts Council subsequently said it would love to engage with them but that was not the feeling that the individual artists had. I have made my position clear on this. Exclusivity should not be the mode of the Arts Council. The Department funds Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann directly. It is bizarre. It should be funded through the Arts Council, but because the Arts Council historically has not had a relationship with traditional Irish music, the Department does it. Comhaltas has received its largest budget ever this year. We have given it an extra allocation for its 75th anniversary, which will be huge in 2026, and for Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann i mBéal Feirste i mbliana. That will be very important.

With regard to the FAI-----

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister expect an answer from the Brennan report in relation to those aspects? If not, what can we do?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I do not know what the Brennan report will state. It will certainly give us food for thought and it may require legislative changes. If, when I have the report back from Professor Brennan, I am required to make amendments to the principal Act, I hope I will have sufficient time to make them all together. That will include the issue the Deputy raised, which he has raised with me previously, around excluding certain elements of artistic funding. That has been a tradition, and it is one which, as I have said previously, I am calling a halt to.

In relation to broadband, in the next couple of days, we will reach a milestone when we pass 420,000 premises. This is a massive number of properties. In the Deputy's county, especially in the upland areas of County Wicklow, this has been a huge issue because the commercial sector was never going to do it. If the State did not it, no one was going to do it. We will be marking that. I will come back to the Deputy with specifics on when we are going to conclude the programme. At the moment, based on the trajectory, it will be well ahead of schedule. By the end of next year, it will be completed.

On the NFL, one third of all the people who attended the game in Croke Park were from the United States of America. That is anecdotal information that we have so far. I have been told the percentage travelling from abroad was the largest ever recorded for any European venue. We will do a full assessment. I will publish it. It will give us an opportunity again to come back before the committee. The NFL may or may not want to have a relationship with Ireland into the future. We will do the assessment of the moneys we spent, the quantum we spent, the value we got out of it and the value to Ireland. We will make a determination then based on data.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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What about the FAI?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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In relation to the FAI, my position is clear. The FAI needs to continue to engage with the committee, as elected representatives, and with us, as a Department. I am not in the business of debt relief. Moneys that are owed are moneys that have to be paid.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I apologise for not being here when the Minister gave his opening statement, but I have read it. I wish to raise issues beyond the Irish Film Classification Office, which I will deal with first. When I was coming into the meeting, the Minister was talking about the arts capital scheme. What funding is coming for the new scheme or is it expected to be under budget 2027, rather than next year budget, which was before the Dáil last week?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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It is in the national development plan, NDP. A total of €6 million will be the first allocation. We will make that available by way of a call for applications early in 2026.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is €6 million.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a fairly small pot. Is there no additional funding other than-----

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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It is additional.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Is that other than the €6 million?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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No, that is additional money. It will be specifically for those organisations that are currently outside all the national cultural institutions. Anybody in a community organisation that is looking for capital at the moment cannot access it. This will be akin to the sports capital scheme. It will be the first of its kind and will take off after Christmas.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for that. The other issue I wish to raise is the basic income for artists. The Minister said that the specifics of it are to be announced at Christmas or whenever it goes before the Government. He mentioned the cliff edge. The first one was expected to be around this time but the scheme was then extended. The next cliff edge is February. If it is Christmas time and the Minister has to make changes and then roll out an advertising programme to encourage people to apply, does he expect the cliff edge at the end of February for the people who are currently on the scheme if they cannot apply for the new scheme? Basically, I am asking whether this scheme is starting in March of next year.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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What I have budgeted for is that the scheme will start in the second half of next year. The real cliff edge was last week because the cliff edge was the budget. If we had not secured agreement from the Department of public expenditure and reform, that would have been the cliff edge. Thanks to the interventions of a lot of people, including the engagement between my Department and the Department of public expenditure, we convinced people that this is a scheme worth retaining. That was the real cliff edge, and we overcame that. Now we have the quantitative and qualitative analyses, which we are going through at the moment. We have all the submissions, about 19,000 in total, that were made in respect of the public consultation. We are going to design a scheme that will be fair. I said this in Dáil as well. I do not have any hard-and-fast attitudes regarding the scheme, but it has to be fair.

There are the 2,000 people in it, but there is also a control group who are outside of that. There are people asking when their turn will come. We have to be conscious that no matter how much money we have, we are probably not going to be able to cover everybody. There are things that we will consider, such as whether it is time limited or whether it is people that are churned out. I will consider it in the round based on fairness and the amount of moneys that are available to me. The Deputy can see in the budget line last week that I have a half year available. Over the next four years, that will incrementally grow as we have full years available to us. It will also give us an opportunity to reach out to more people.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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All the other social welfare payments were increased by €10. Is it expected that there will be a new rate for the basic income?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I have not decided that. I have is a sum of money. The Deputy is around here a lot longer than I am. If I increase the basic sum, I decrease the numbers of people. There are loads of issues here.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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For next year, the Minister has less money than he does for this year because-----

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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No. Next year, I have a half a year because-----

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is less money than this year.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Yes, half is less than one, but in the negotiations with the Department, we would have to bring forward a scheme to the Government and get the Government to approve it. That includes the quantitative and qualitative. We have to decide whether it is the same 2,000 participants, whether it is a different cohort, whether it is fair to the control group and whether the control group is reopened again. That all takes time. Looking at this objectively, having only received the funding last week, it will take us a number of months to be able to roll out payments. That is why it is half a year. It is not a cut. To be fair to the Deputy-----

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I did not say it was a cut. I just asked a question.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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To continue on the theme of the basic income for arts scheme, I thank the Minister for listening. We had a huge number of meetings and requests to continue that scheme. It has proved to be hugely beneficial to so many people in the arts sector. I acknowledge the work the Minister and his officials have done on that. As previous speakers have said, if the scheme could be broadened to allow more people to enter it, that would be most welcome to all those in the arts industry.

I will focus on two key issues. I welcome the record allocation of over €290 million in sport. That is a significant investment of this Government in sport. It plays a vital role in so many different ways. One of things we looked at is the major sport events. We had fantastic success with the NFL coming only a couple of weeks ago. That has had a huge economic spin-off. We have the Ryder Cup coming to County Limerick in 2027. I am looking forward to attending as the Minister's guest down at the Ryder Cup.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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There is a few more on that list I would say.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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In relation to the Tour de France, in 1998, Ireland held a stage or two of the Tour de France. There is a massive opportunity and scope to bring the Tour de France back to Ireland with respect to the start of the stage, back to the south east of Ireland, and back to Kilkenny and Carlow in particular. I would implore the Minister and his colleagues to investigate that further because we have a fantastic asset to sell here in Ireland, and what better way to do it than to get the Tour de France back to Ireland in a couple of years' time. I look forward to working with the Minister to help that goal be achieved.

I am conscious of my time. On the integration between the GAA, the Ladies Gaelic Football Association, LGFA, and the Camogie Association, we have the GPA coming in later on. I am a passionate GAA man. I love my club, my county and my sport. The integration occurring between the three associations is gathering pace. We are looking at a target date of 2027. It is not going to be the case that on 1 January you flick a switch and everything is perfect but the goal of one club, one county, one province, one congress and one association is within touching distance. When it is achieved it will an absolutely momentous occasion. The key thing that keeps coming through are the three Fs, namely, finance, fixtures and facilities. Where I want to come to is those facilities. The previous sports capital grant that came out was incredible. It was over €250 million and 3,000 clubs benefited across the country. However, I am looking for a significant increase in that pot of money to allow these clubs and organisations to have the facilities infrastructure to allow that greater participation in sport, particularly among females. The Minister sees it in his own club and the value it does, whether it is a walking track or female changing rooms. It is a specific measure in the programme for Government to increase participation in sport, particularly among females. On that facilities piece, I am looking for as big a fund as possible. What is the fund available for sporting organisations, particularly for the GAA, the LGFA and the Camogie Association.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Best of luck with all that.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Cleere. On the basic income for arts, the sector has responded really positively. Even this morning, in Collins Barracks, I met a number of them who were very positive in respect of the fact that it is the largest arts budget in the history of the State and we are now going to do something that was never done before for those who were locked out, that is, an arts capital scheme.

On major sports events and the Tour de France, obviously I would like to see major sports events in Ireland. They all cost money and the Deputy can see himself that there is €10 million in the budget. I will be providing greater levels of detail in the Revised Estimate as well, with a breakdown. We have some huge events in the pipeline. Some are already concluded, like the NFL. The Ryder Cup is coming. We hope to get the R&A and The Open Championship into Portmarnock. These are all big events.

I agree with the Deputy on integration. I have two little girls who play under-sixes and under-fives bord na nóg. I want to see them as fully fledged members of the GAA and being no different to what their brother is. At the moment, there is a difference, and in fairness to Mary McAleese, she has done a great job in this space. I met the GAA the week before last. While we have given a big increase in regard to FAI funding for academies, it is my intention - and we started it this year - to also focus in on hurling. Deputy Cleere will know this better than I do. If you draw a line from Galway to Dublin, there are really only seven counties that are competing for the Liam MacCarthy Cup at the moment.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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All touching Tipperary, I might add.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I am not going to mention the names of them because I will insult somebody. We need to get to a situation where we have more counties competing and that is going to require investment. It is also going to require a plan. Even within hurling counties, there are hurling counties where there are huge deficits of hurling. That requires us to be able to work with the GAA, first, to teach people how to teach. From the time when a child is shown how to actually hold a hurley to the time they walk up the Hogan Stand, the very basic things are the most important. For an awful lot of us who are of a particular generation, we were not shown the basic things but that is what we are going to try to do.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is very welcome. I support any funding that is put into major events, which has a huge knock-on effect for the Irish economy, or the funding into the centre of excellence. We need that. We have seen our national team and where we are. We do not invest in the grassroots and that is where it needs to be. Those academies need to be in every single existing League of Ireland club, in the first or second divisions and further.

On the basic income for artists, I would like to get clarity on that for the people. We need to do that as quickly as possible for the people on the existing scheme so they can know what is going forward.

On postmasters, as the Minister knows, the postmaster is not about the post office but about the communities. That commitment for funding of €15 million per year for the next five years is going to safeguard and support nearly 1,000 communities around this country. I welcome the support the Minister has given and put into the budget. There will be a massive knock-on effect to ancillary businesses into those towns, villages and communities with the footfall that comes in.

As the Minister knows, I am a passionate GAA person and hurling person as well. I come from the hurling stronghold of Longford.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is north of that axis, is he?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am north of that line. I totally concur. It is the greatest field sport in the world and it is in our own country. I am one of those people who was involved, as chairperson of a hurling board, when we did not actually have a county team. We had seven players. We went out, pushed hard and ended up in a Division 3 league final that year and won the Lory Meagher Cup in Croke Park the following year. One of the greatest honours I will ever have was standing out in Croke Park after we won that. We need the world to see this game but we need to improve it here. I fully support the comments the Minister made that we put in and create centres of excellence for what is the greatest game of any sport in the world, and support the weaker and smaller counties in particular, which have to struggle and work so hard to keep the game alive. I fully support that. That is what we want to see; we want to see more competitive counties where it is weak. Only three or four years ago we saw where Cavan came back into the national league. They had to step out where they could not actually field in the national league. I am fully supportive of that

Once again, I think it was a good, fair, balanced budget across all Departments. It is unusual to be able to get that so I thank the Minister on that. As someone who has advocated on behalf of the postmasters, this will make a massive difference for communities.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. On the postmasters, I know the Deputy is one himself and I thank him for the work he has done with the Irish Postmasters Union. The reality is - we all saw this during Covid, and most of the people sitting around the table here are from rural areas - Government support and sentiment will not keep post offices open. What will keep post offices open is if rural people go in and use them. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people are passing the doors. It is the same in shops, whether in Kilkenny, Wicklow or Longford or even in Dublin. Post offices also close in Dublin. People pass them. We will only be able to keep open the model of postal network we have at the minute if people use them. In my home county of Limerick, we have seen a huge amount of closures and it does impact on society because they do not come back. They are not going to come back. While we will be able to invest in them, we need people to use them as well. Postmasters, as the Deputy knows, are paid on transactions. People need to use them. I know there is an awful lot of online shopping at the moment, particularly with Vinted, which is brilliant but we need to see more of it.

I will come back to people as quickly as I can with regard to clarity on basic income for the arts. I appreciate the Deputy's comments on the FAI. In relation to hurling, no more than what Deputy Cleere said, we want to work with the GAA. This is the greatest game in the world, bar none, and it is our game. There are children who currently cannot play because they or the coaches do not have the skill set, or they are not given the opportunity. Over the next four or five years, I want to work with the GAA to try to put a plan in place. This is a UNESCO-recognised sport. There is no point in having a UNESCO designation on it if we do not invest in it. That means people are going to have to cough up and my good friends in the Department of public expenditure and reform will be delighted about that.

One thing I should have said at the start is that with regard to the money for grassroots football and the academy structure, Sport Ireland will have an integral part in that. I want it to have a central role in this because while it is a huge amount of money, it is also a huge template with regard to other sports, particularly hurling and, to a lesser degree, Gaelic football, because every county in the country has a Gaelic football team.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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If I can really quickly, there is a good Tipperary man by the name of William Maher, who is the head of hurling-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Hey, do not take my job. That is my job.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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He resides in Kilkenny now. He saw the light. He is doing a great job in the GAA. I want to acknowledge that.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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All-Irelands with Tipp, though.

My esteemed colleague took my opening line. I am delighted with what the Minister is planning for hurling. I know William Maher. He is fantastic and for those watching, he is the head of hurling development with the GAA. I have seen the plan. I went through it with him and I am absolutely thrilled the Minister is doing that.

Regarding the integration of the GAA, collectively as a committee we have asked the integration committee to come before us a number of times and it has not been available. We have asked the three associations to come before us a number of times and they have not been available either. We are starting today with the GPA and hopefully the next time we invite the integration committee, the GAA, the LGFA and the Camogie Association, they will be available because it has been very difficult to get a hold of them to date. This is a bit concerning but hopefully that will be addressed.

I have two other points. First, in our programme of work, we as a committee are seriously considering going down the road of looking at the whole area of online safety. This is an issue the Minister has a particular interest in. We are looking at various different meetings with all stakeholders and people who have been affected, as well as those large companies involved in social media. I ask the Minister's Department to monitor what we are doing in our meetings - it could be three or four meetings in total - because it might help shape some of the work the Minister's Department will be doing in this area. It is something on which the committee and the Department could do a lot of work together to set some baselines. We have an additional pressure in this country, given the volume of companies here and we need to lead. That was my observation.

The last point is on whether the Minister can give indicative dates. We all get queries regarding the various types of sports capital. The Minister could go through the various different types - the small, the normal, large and those done with the local authorities - and could give indicative dates. We will not hold him to it but maybe indications such as spring, summer, winter and autumn for all the various levels of sports capital. This committee can then, through this medium, communicate that out there. Thereafter, once and for all, in the case of every politician who asks me if I know when it is, I can just refer to this meeting. When will the various levels of sports capital be announced for applications?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Indicatively, and the Chair will not hold me over it - when I meet him while having my lunch, he will not attack me with a spoon or something - I would hope the small sports capital, as we have all become familiar with, will be in the spring-middle of next year, so the summer of 2026. The large-scale capital will be in 2027 and then we will do another round of the small ones again during the lifetime of the Government. By the way, I should say these are not small but substantial sums of money.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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The small sums are up to €100,000.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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They can be €250,000. I can look at the thresholds as part of the scheme as well because building inflation is a reality and I know the costs have gone up. We will look at all of those and come back. We will publish the scheme.

Regarding the online safety matter, my Department would be delighted with that. If it is helpful, I can ask the officials in my Department. Tríona Quill is the assistant secretary and Feargal Ó Coigligh is the Secretary General and can set out the legislative and regulatory landscape for Ireland. Before the committee comes back on any hearings, we will engage with it and if it is doing a report, we certainly would be delighted with that. I met the Children's Rights Alliance yesterday on this and it has particular ideas around age verification which we are working on and are engaged with at present.

As regards the GPA, I value the GPA and brought back the grants when I was Minister of State responsible for sport in 2016 when we had no money and it has grown substantially. I want to try to grow it over the lifetime of this Government. These are young men and women who forfeit a massive amount and if it is anything the State can give towards defraying a cost of petrol or diesel or whatever, this is what we have to do. As I said a while ago, UNESCO designation is not worth a bag of feathers unless you invest in it.

On integration, again, I welcome the committee fleshing out with the GAA, the LGFA and An Cumann Camógaíochta because there is going to be a cost here. As Deputy Cleere said, there are clubs all over the country that are not suitable for men to go into, let alone women. There are no changing rooms or anything like that and the facilities-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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My daughter is playing a county final on Saturday.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Sport Ireland has done a very valuable piece of work and the committee should look at it. It is a kind of atlas of where the sports facilities are in Ireland. When we do invest, we will invest against a backdrop of knowledge where there are already existing facilities or where there is a deficit. Local authorities have a big role in this and the committee will know my views on this - they have been off the hook for far too long. They are great for telling people to send in a sports application but they are not great at putting their hand in their own pocket. I have a particular view on local authorities and I will be making that clear as well.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his time. I wish every meeting could be as efficient and quick as this. That concludes our consideration of Further Revised Estimates 2025: Vote 33 - Culture, Communication and Sport. In accordance with Standing Orders, a message to the effect will be sent to the Clerk of the Dáil. I thank the Minister and his officials for their assistance today.