Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy Currie. The purpose of today's meeting is to consider the Revised Estimates for Public Services in respect of Vote 31 - Transport. I remind members that the committee has no role in approving the Estimates. This is an ongoing opportunity for the committee to examine departmental expenditure in order to make the process more transparent and to engage in a meaningful way on relevant performance issues.

I thank the Department for the briefing note provided to us in advance. I welcome the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and his officials.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if or witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory with regard to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to cease. In this regard, I ask any member partaking via Microsoft Teams that prior to making a contribution to the meeting, they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House complex.

I invite the Minister to make his opening statement.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach as an gcuireadh chun a bheith anseo os comhair an choiste iompair maidin inniu. Táim ag tnúth go mór leis an gcuid oibre atá le déanamh againn le chéile ar son ár ndaoine fud fad na tíre.

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the invitation and I look forward to working with members of the committee over the course of this Dáil term on behalf of our people throughout the country. Members will be aware of the incident in Foynes yesterday. As Minister for Transport, my thoughts are with the two injured parties there. I wish them a speedy recovery and thank the emergency services and authorities at Shannon Foynes Port for the manner in which they responded to that incident. I know all of the committee members will join me in that.

I wish the Chairman well in his position as Chair of this committee, which will be a very important one as we advance the delivery of public transport services and transport infrastructure throughout the country on behalf of our people. This is a good opportunity to discuss the 2025 Estimates with the committee.

The budget is set out in six programmes: programme A, sustainable mobility – active travel and greenways; programme B, sustainable mobility - public transport; programme C, road safety and road networks; programme D, civil aviation; programme E, maritime safety and transport; and programme F, information technology, engagement and research delivery.

The set of transport Estimates before the committee provide an overall gross allocation to the Department of Transport of €3.919 billion, which constitutes €1.036 billion in current expenditure and €2.882 billion in capital investment. The allocation will support our ambitions in delivering on the transport-related objectives in the national development plan, NDP, and, very importantly, the climate action plan, delivering safe, sustainable and accessible transport options in urban and rural areas. It will support our ambitions in maintaining and enhancing road, aviation, and maritime safety, security and connectivity.

The advance brief before the committee highlights many of the achievements of 2024. This committee will be looking forward as well. The strong growth in public transport passenger numbers with public service obligation, PSO, passengers surpassing 1 million a day for the first time ever in October, and the retention of the 20% reduction on fares are to name but two highlights of 2024. However, it also highlights many of the challenges that we face going into 2025, from the immediate, the ongoing concern around road fatalities, to the long term, the challenge of rapidly reducing carbon emissions in the sector and the increasingly expected, but unpredictable, damage caused to our infrastructure by extreme weather events.

Turning first to programme A, which relates to active travel, €359.991 million, or €360 million, is allocated under this programme. My Department continues to deliver on the programme for Government commitment of providing €360 million per annum to invest in active travel. Strategic programmes, such as the safe routes to school programme, which has been an incredible success for our school communities across the country, saw round three of the programme launched in November 2024 with an additional 141 schools entering the programme. The programme will support the design of integrated networks and will greatly enhance safety and accessibility and make active travel a very attractive alternative to the private car. Active travel and greenways projects under construction will proceed apace. As the outturn for 2024 demonstrates, the demand for the investment is there and we will continue to deliver.

A sum of €1.756 billion has been allocated to programme B, sustainable mobility and public transport, for public transport infrastructure investment and investment in our services.

This funding will continue to protect existing networks, modernise our networks and fleets and provide new connections. It will provide for the existing range of transport services and facilitate the ongoing delivery of BusConnects, Connecting Ireland and new town service plans, providing better connected, more frequent services and building that real alternative to the private car to which our citizens are responding. A total of €658.442 million is allocated in public service obligation, PSO, funding. The 20% discount on public transport fares is retained for 2025. This funding provides for the continuation of the 90-minute fare and extension of the upper age limit of the young adult card from 23 to 25 years.

The NTA will continue to roll out new services in line with the BusConnects, Connecting Ireland and new town services plans so we can build on the achievements of 2024 in growing passenger numbers on our networks. I am pleased to see the steady growth in passenger numbers which demonstrates the success of our investment to date.

A sum of €1.043 billion is allocated to public transport investment. Plans for 2025 include ongoing protection and renewal of the rail network; progression of Cork area commuter rail; construction of two core bus corridors; the expansion of the independent travel support scheme previously called the travel assist scheme; and continued progression of public transport projects. Now that these projects are starting to exit the planning system, 2025 and onwards should see real progress in this regard. To take Bus Connects as an example, 12 projects are through planning. Some are subject to judicial review but we intend to start the construction of the first Bus Connects corridor this year and have received tenders in that regard.

A total of €1.512 billion is allocated to programme C, road networks and road safety. That includes electric vehicle, EV, grants and infrastructure. This funding will enable us to maintain and renew the national, regional and local road surfaces; undertake safety works and bridge maintenance and rehabilitation; and meet our contractual obligations under public-private partnerships that delivered parts of our motorway network. It will also fund the construction of new national and regional and local roads and vital safety-related services and progress the electrification of our transport networks.

A total of €238 million has been allocated to the construction of new national roads and €70 million for regional and local road improvement schemes. Construction is continuing on a number of major roads, including the re-tendered Ballaghaderreen to Scramogue road, Cork to Ringaskiddy road and the Adare bypass.

Some €271.750 million has been allocated to protection and renewal of national roads, €643.667 million for protection and renewal of regional and local roads and an additional €98 million in public-private partnership, PPP, operational payments.

We are allocating €105.272 million to EV grants and infrastructure. The recent publication of regional and local plan will help deliver the charging infrastructure people need, where they need it, including at home, on the road, and at key destinations and neighbourhoods across the community. Together with the national road EV charging plan, it provides a complete national plan, ensuring no gaps in coverage and supporting Ireland’s transition to cleaner transport.

In relation to road safety, €7.88 million has been provided to the Medical Bureau of Road Safety to support its vital work in detecting drug and alcohol misuse by drivers. The vast majority of the Road Safety Authority, RSA, funding is received directly from services paid by the public for driver testing, driver licensing and the national car test, NCT, rather than being provided for through the Department’s allocation. However, my Department will continue to work closely with the Road Safety Authority on all matters related to road safety and has oversight of all of its spending, regardless of the source of funding.

Turning to programme D, civil aviation, €35.778 million is allocated to aviation. The regional airports programme provides targeted supports to regional airports that handle fewer than 1 million passengers per annum. Airports eligible for funding under the programme in 2025 are Ireland West Airport and Kerry and Donegal airports. Aligning with the national development plan, NDP, almost €36 million in capital funding was allocated under this programme over the years 2021 to 2024, with an additional €9 million in capital funding made available in 2025. A further €8.015 million in current funding is available for allocation in 2025. In addition to providing operational funding to regional airports, this funding will support the operation of a PSO air service, which is provided under contract by Emerald Airlines between Donegal and Dublin. A total of €11.171 million is allocated to fund services such as air accident insurance and membership of key international organisations.

The sum of €199.175 million is allocated to programme E, maritime transport and safety. Most of that funding is directed to the Irish Coast Guard. This includes delivery of the new national search and rescue, SAR, aviation contract incorporating SAR services and air ambulance support to the HSE and the island communities. The Shannon base has already transitioned from CHC to Bristow under the new contract and the transition period of the remaining three bases at Weston, Sligo and Waterford concludes on 1 February 2026, with Weston going live this month. The priority during the ongoing transition of the remaining three SAR bases is the safe and effective transfer of operations without interruption to this essential State service.  The expanded aviation service will significantly enhance the Coast Guard’s capabilities, including inland and maritime search and rescue, aeromedical support for the HSE, including day and night-time support for island communities, environmental monitoring and new aerial firefighting capacity. The funding also includes investment in the Commissioner of Irish Lights and marine casualty investigations.

A total of €55.332 million is allocated to programme F, information technology, engagement and research delivery. Given the central importance of IT infrastructure to how the Department conducts its operations and delivers front-line services such as licensing services and motor tax collection, the digital hub is a new centralised structure which brings together all the core ICT and digital functions in the Department. It is responsible for overseeing technology strategy, technology and business operations, data management, data analytics and ICT project management. It comprises five divisions that have responsibility for the support of all IT services for the Department and the National Vehicle and Driver File, NVDF. This programme also includes two additional subheads, namely, climate engagement and research programmes. Funding will be used to commission research to provide for a robust evidence base for climate policy development, implementation, communication, and reporting concerning the transport sector. This will support information campaigns such as Your Journey Counts, which highlights how individual choices can make transport more sustainable, and also vital research into areas such as sustainable fuels.

I am pleased to see how the strategic direction of the Department has developed over the past few years and would like to take this opportunity to thank my predecessor, former Deputy Eamon Ryan, for the work he did in the Department. In accordance with the Public Service Management Act 1997, we are preparing a new strategy statement at the moment. The programme for Government will underpin the new strategy which will also take account of other existing and overarching national strategies and plans, including the NDP, which we are in the process of reviewing, the road haulage strategy which runs up to 2031, the all-island strategic rail review, the sustainable mobility policy and the climate action plan. I will be seeking to ensure that we maintain the real momentum that we have built up in delivering safe, secure and accessible transport networks that serve all our citizens’ needs. I am very happy to take any questions that members have.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Minister. Members will have 15 minutes each and Deputy Boland is our first contributor.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. It is very good to see someone from north County Dublin in the room. Obviously, the Minister appreciates the public transport concerns in the north of the county. The briefing was really helpful. This is the first time I have seen something like this in committee and it was really good to actually see it. I am very focused on making sure that we have enough funding for public transport in north County Dublin and nationally. Programme B, sustainable mobility, covers new buses, coaches and rail carriages delivered and railways upgraded and improved.

I could not quite work out why there had been no new rail carriages or no data available last year and why it looks like there will be zero this year.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We have received the first tranche. There was an order for 165 carriages over two deliveries. The first portion of that is being commissioned now and they are being tested in Inchicore. They will be tested shortly on the northern line. They have been received and that testing and commissioning are important. We had 41 carriages delivered last year for the new DART fleet and the battery-chargeable trains as well. The first line they will run on is the northern line. That will be from quarter 4 of 2026. While they do not appear in the 2025 Estimate, they were ordered in 2024 or maybe even before that. We have received 41 carriages out of a total of 165. Some of the existing carriages on the northern line will then transition on to other lines, but this is part of the first order.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister saying they do not appear here until they are commissioned notwithstanding that we have taken delivery already?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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They are not actually in service yet. That is the reason.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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We have them but they are not active.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We have the first tranche of them. The first part of the order has been received.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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How many more are coming?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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There are 180 ordered in total. We have 41 right now and they are being received in stages and will be brought on to the line.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Are they on time for delivery?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, they are. I have just been informed that we also have 41 intercity rail carriages, which are already in service. The new carriages for the DART+ fleet are being commissioned. The first part of that order was received last year.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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We should see the roll-out of that in quarter 4 of 2026.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I have been told that the projection is quarter 4 of 2026. Licensing arrangements need to be done not just within Ireland but also at a European rail level. Quite a bit of that work has to be done as well. There is also the commissioning and driver training.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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It is great to see that progress. I know we had hoped to have it a bit earlier in 2026 but Mr. Creegan of the NTA pointed out that the European licensing etc. would take six months. I hope we will see the roll-out in quarter 4 of 2026 which would really help with the frequency on the northern commuter line. As the Minister knows, the population has greatly increased not only in Fingal but also in east Meath and Louth. It would be really good to see those rolled out.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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It will make a significant difference to that line and it will also make a significant difference to other lines. We will be able to move carriages currently on the northern line to other lines, thereby increasing capacity. These carriages are fully accessible for those with disabilities. We have made strides with that. Regarding waiting times or having to pre-order or pre-book a slot on a train, Iarnród Éireann has done significant good work. These trains are fully accessible with a ramp onto the platform. Some platform work is required. Those with mobility issues will be able to access the trains like anyone else and that is the way it should be.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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That is very welcome. I presume the lifts to allow people to transfer platforms will be upgraded. As the mother of twins, I know the train service was essentially unavailable to me while my girls were still in a buggy because the lift was so frequently out of service. It just meant that public transport was not available for someone in a wheelchair or someone like me with a double buggy. It is great to hear about the carriages. The infrastructure to allow people to cross to the platform safely is really important.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I have discussed the matter with Iarnród Éireann. We have some infamous lifts, particularly on the line into Dublin, that are regularly out of service. Some of that is due to vandalism and antisocial behaviour, which is problematic in some areas. Iarnród Éireann is acutely aware of that matter and doing everything it can to improve accessibility. This will help greatly along with the new carriages. I have met with the disability public transport users and discussed the issues they have. They are a very important part of our stakeholder group and stakeholder engagement which happens on a regular basis. We are listening to the customer in everything we do. Across all our public transport operators, we need to put the customer first. We can talk about numbers and investment, which are very important, but everything needs to be focused on the customer and towards increasing the public transport numbers. We need to make sure we have accessible, affordable and reliable public transport services.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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That is very welcome news. I thank the Minister and I appreciate the focus on it.

The Minister mentioned the maintenance of the 90-minute €2 fare for 2025. Will we see that maintained? Do we hope to get funding for that in 2026? As I live in Skerries, that inevitably leads me to the question as to whether that can be expanded to all towns in Dublin. The Minister will be aware of the huge public outcry in Balbriggan over being left outside the Dublin city commuter zone.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Fares are not set by me. We intend to keep the 90-minute fare. We will also be rolling out free transport for five-year-olds to eight-year-olds on PSO routes. We also have the fairer fares - there was a 50% reduction in rail fares for commuters in Drogheda. The Deputy and others have raised with me the anomaly with Skerries and Balbriggan. I have relayed that point, particularly on school transport fares. That is something that has been raised quite regularly. It is a question of trying to balance the fare structure to make it fairer and I have relayed the feedback on that to the NTA. I fully support the principles underpinning the NTA's fair fares. There are legacy issues with the transport fare system. I have mentioned the child fares which need to be looked at and I will ask for that to be looked at. The NTA is reviewing those options now. In a small number of areas, it was never anyone's intention to see a significant increase in fares, particularly school-going fares. That is being reviewed right now. I have asked for that to happen.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I am a huge supporter of public transport. I was very encouraged by the decrease in fares further up the northern line because the fares were too high. The NTA sold that on the basis that it would be simpler and more consistent on a distance-based system. Someone travelling from Skerries to Balbriggan is paying the same as someone travelling from Balbriggan to Pearse station in Dublin. However, even worse, someone travelling from Dublin to Drogheda pays the exact same fare as someone who travels from Balbriggan to Drogheda, despite Balbriggan being 33 km closer to Drogheda. There are inconsistencies in fares. I appreciate what the NTA is trying to do; I just do not believe it has worked on a fair basis. I would really appreciate a rebalancing of fares, certainly for children because there was a huge increase in children's fares. It is very welcome that the NTA is looking at that and I appreciate the Minister's support on it.

I raise another issue with fares although I am not sure which area it falls into. I know there is funding for it. The contactless-based system has been mooted for a long time. We have seen this rolled out in other European cities many years ago, in some cases going back to 2012. We are still saying this will happen in 2028. I am not sure what the reason for the delay is. Why is it not simple for us to roll this out? Tourists who come here cannot believe that we do not have a tap-on, tap-off system. I cannot get a handle on why there is such a delay and why we cannot mimic what has been rolled out in many other European cities.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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During transport questions last night, a number of Deputies asked that question. Next generation ticketing is on the way. The contract is in place. There is a €165 million investment by the Exchequer on this which will greatly improve our ticketing system across our entire public transport network. It will allow for new ways to pay for public transport. It will also introduce account-based ticketing, which is being worked through right now. The most up-to-date information, which I gave to the Dáil last night, is that phase 1 of that, which is the in-use testing phase, will be in 2027.

There are three other phases post that which are dependent on the success of that rollout. I will meet the NTA on this. It is a whole new system. There is not just the ticketing piece but there will also be changes to the receptors that are used, such as the ticketing machines in the stations where you tap on. They will all have to be changed. There is a physical infrastructure change required with this.

Indra Sistemas, the company that is delivering it, has delivered systems like this in other countries too. The best handle on timeframe I have is that phase 1 is summer to autumn 2027. I said this to Members last night because Deputies Moynihan and Daly and others asked last night about this very thing. I will see if there is any way for us to shorten the distance between phase 1 and phase 2. I cannot give a commitment on that. It is the rollout of a whole new contactless ticketing system that will be with us for a generation and will make a very significant change. I will keep the committee informed of that. Last night, I committed to Deputies that following my meeting with the NTA and Indra Sistemas that I will come back with an update on timelines. We got a better handle on that in the responses we were able to give to Deputies in the Dáil last night.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that. Conscious that technology moves on so quickly, is this still the right thing to do? Some €165 million is a huge investment. Is the technology we are planning to roll out still up-to-date and fit for purpose or should we be looking at something that might be quicker and cheaper?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I am absolutely sure because I asked those very questions and I compared it with our nearest neighbour, Britain, and how it would look to someone who was very used to going to Britain and tapping on and off. I am informed our system will be an advance of what you see in operation in London. The account based option will also be there for people. Right now, there are apps, such as the Transport for Ireland app, where people can use that app on their phone to tap on and tap off. Obviously, all of us - including me - have Leap cards. We have to keep that system operational while we are rolling out the new one. On a value for money basis, I am assured the proper due diligence was done by my predecessor and by the Department with the awarding of that contract. This is a company and organisation that has delivered this type of ticketing system in other jurisdictions as well. I am assured it is the most up-to-date technology that is updatable into the future as well.

It will make a significant leap forward in our public transport offering, particularly for those who are visiting the country. I agree with the Deputy on that. In other jurisdictions, people are used to being able to use ticketing systems like this. The good thing is the work is the under way. It is happening. The phase 1 rollout is summer to autumn 2027.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Given it is such a big project, I assume that the NTA or whoever will be managing it on behalf of the Sate will have the proper resources with the capabilities to deliver this. We have seen other IT projects where people did not have the right capabilities within their organisations and they went very badly wrong. It would be good-----

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what we want to see here. There are examples of where IT systems have not been delivered well and have not done what they were intended for. It is not the situation here. Obviously, I have met the NTA in my role but specifically on this, I intend to met the NTA and the system developer to talk in more detail about that and about timelines in particular. I am absolutely assured this system will be transformational for our ticketing.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. I appreciate that.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister for the briefing provided by his team. For programme A, cycling, walking and greenway, the outturn for 2024 was €387 million. As the Minister has outlined, the budget for 2025 is €360 million. That is a 7% decrease in terms of what was spent in 2024 versus what is budgeted this year. There is real concern about the almost systematic removal of references to cycling in this programme for Government versus the previous one. In light of that difference in actual spend versus proposed spend this year, can the Minister offer any reassurance that he will look to spend at least as much on these vital programmes in 2025 as was spent in 2024?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy O'Gorman. He can be absolutely assured this Government is as committed as the previous one to continuing the real advancements that were made over the previous five years in the provision of active travel schemes. I am a bigger supporter of that. We have seen a lot of advancement in my own area of Fingal and we have seen the benefits of that such as the safer routes to school and the other active travel schemes. We have a really strong pipeline of projects as well. Right now, the allocation is €360 million for this year. We have committed to doing at least that every year from now through the term of the Government. We are in the middle of the NDP review. I will seek additional capital funds for this Department, obviously. There would be additional funds, based on what we can deliver on active travel.

It is good to see with those projects that the pipeline and capacity is there to deliver them. You are seeing the networks coming together in cities and counties like Limerick. We see that in my area of Fingal as well, with the delivery of the Broadmeadow Greenway, which would link up right the way around through Sutton, Howth and all the way into the city. I have met with stakeholders as well. I met the Irish Cycling Campaign twice now, and a colleague of Deputy O'Gorman's, David Healy, is a part of that as well. We are particularly looking at what we can do in rural areas. Some of the urban areas have been easier to do in many respects but there are outlying areas of what more we can do to improve road safety for rural dwellers to be able to cycle. We have a significant programme. I assure the Deputy I am committed to it.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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After the NDP review, does the Minister expect he will be in a position to raise that annual spend on programme A from €360 million and be able to do a higher annual spend?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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What I want to see this year is that we spend our outturn. There will be some carryover from last year within the programme as well. My intention is to get additional capital that will go across our Vote. Those discussions are not concluded yet but the target for the publication of the revised NDP is the month of July. I am a firm believer in active travel. It works. People respond to it. It is not just in relation to the greenways programme, which are great for recreation and tourism, but for daily use. You see that and people are responding to it. It is something I am committed to. I will be looking to advance that programme further.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister. Yesterday, we saw really good news from CIE about increased passengers numbers across Dublin Bus, Irish Rail and Bus Éireann as well. We are seeing a steady increase in passenger numbers. The Minister has referred to it already. Has his Department done any work in terms of analysing the impact the fare reductions we have seen over the last number of years have had? I am talking about the 20% reduction for everybody, the 50% young adult travel card and the five to eight year old free travel that is coming in soon. Has the Minister got any sense of how big an impact that has on people's decision to start taking up public transport? In light of that, is he proposing to look at further fare reductions over the next number of years to continue that positive trend in passenger numbers?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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As TDs, who go around and talk to our constituents, we know, anecdotally, that the fare reductions have had an impact. That is not quantified. It is very difficult to assess that to say what level of increase in public transport users is attributable to fare reductions. The principle of an affordable, punctual, reliable and accessible service is important and that reliability piece is critically important as well. In September this year, I will extend the free travel for five to eight year olds. Obviously, we will pay for that. I have already mentioned about the student fares and the increase from 23 to 25 years of age as well. Any further reduction or proposed reduction in public transport fares would obviously have to be paid for. We will have to look at that to see is it appropriate, needed and affordable in the round, looking at the Department's Vote across the board.

I am not proposing at this stage to bring forward any further reductions other than what I have outlined. With the exception of some anomalies, the fairer fares has been very well received. It has certainly made a big difference for those who are outside the original core zones.

I would certainly keep that under review. The Deputy is right. I see the continued increase in public transport numbers as something that is very welcome, not only for people's quality of life but also for the decarbonisation agenda.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister. Undoubtedly the Minister's officials are bringing together the Department's bid for budget 2026 at the moment. Does the Minister intend to put in a bid for a new funding line for the public transport security service? Does he intend to have a line on that for budget 2026? How much is the Minister looking for in the context of budget 2026? Does he have a sense of what the initial staffing numbers of it will be?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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No, I do not intend to put that in for 2026 at this stage. This is a question that came up last night where I gave an update in the Dáil, which was, for the advice of members, that we have started the work in relation to what that transport security force would look like. It will be operated under the NTA. It is expected to be rolled out in the greater Dublin area first and expanded across the country. We will need legislation in that regard to underpin it. That will take some time. I met with the Minister for justice last week, and with his officials and my own, to clear any lines that needed to be cleared with regard to the interaction of the transport security force and An Garda Síochána. I do not expect that force to be up and running next year. A lot of the preparatory and detailed work that is being done right now will require legislation. There are options to be able to accelerate it but that is subject to the approval of the House. It will be funded. It is a commitment from Government.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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What are those acceleration options?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Looking at the existing human resources that are in place right now, there may be an option for some of those officers to transfer into a transport security force once it is established. There are options like that, which I am looking at to see whether that can accelerate the operation of it. We want to get it right. It is there to support An Garda Síochána. It will have comparable powers to the airport police and customs officers. There are things we have to work through with the Department of justice such as pursuit. In an airport campus, for example, the airport police deal with a very defined area. That is their catchment area. On a public transport network, be that a bus network, Luas or rail, it is not as defined. If someone does something and alights from a Luas in the city there are issues in relation to pursuit and arrest. Those legal matters need to be, and will be, worked through.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Another Deputy raised the issue of contactless ticketing. I did not have an oral question last night so I did not hear the Minister's discussion of it in the House. When we spoke about this last week during my Private Member's time, the Minister gave the 2027 delivery date for phase 1, which is the in-use testing phase. Will commuters be using contactless in phase 1? What kind of scale are we thinking about for the in-use testing phase?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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That will be a controlled area in Dublin. It will be across bus, rail and Luas. It will be tested across the three different services. When I say rail, I am including DART and commuter rail. That is aimed for and is the best advice I have now. When the Deputy brought forward his Private Member's motion we discussed this at some length. That is the phase one piece of the in-use testing to pick up any glitches that may be there and any changes that need to be made. This testing would be in place for a period of months and, subject to that being successful, we would look at any changes that need to be made. We will not just focus on rail. It will be rail, bus, Luas and DART in the Dublin area.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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What do the next two phases look like then? Is the Minister in a position to give any detail on those?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I have them and I can give the exact details, but I will give the run-through of what I said last night. We are looking at phase 2 as a further expansion of that, which runs into summer 2028, and the third phase is after that. This is the piece I am not absolutely content with myself, to be very honest, and that is the piece that I want worked out. Obviously, how we roll it out will be dependent on the first phase. If that goes well, if the testing of that is robust, and we if we do not require many system changes on the ICT side or the contactless side to deal with any of the IT bugs that may be there at the time and to deal with them, then the next phase after that is scheduled for the following year. By 2027 to 2029, we would be looking at having the system fully operational. It is something that will be with us for a long time so we do not want to rush it, but if we can save time-----

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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No one could accuse 2029 as being in a rush.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I know but, come on, I am here since the end of January. There were people who were here before me as well but the good thing is, and in fairness the previous Government and in fairness to my predecessor, the contract was entered into, the capital was secured and the work is under way. I would, if at all possible, like to see it done sooner. I cannot predict how the first roll-out phase will go. If there are issues with the system that need to be fixed, and it might take longer than we predict, then phase 2 and phase 3 are dependent on that. As I said to Deputy Boland, I will be meeting the NTA and the system-----

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister for that extra detail, which is really useful. The Minister referred to the NDP review and we will know the outcome of that in July. I am interested to know what scale of additional investment the Minister is looking for. When the NDP is announced for his Department, is there going to be a specific allocation or a pot for the Department? Will we get a sense of what are new public transport programmes versus new roads programmes? I note in the Minister's very detailed briefing, which he sent around, that clear figures are noted beside a couple of roads projects. There is €98 million for dealing with the New Ross bypass, Gorey, and Gort to Tuam, which looks very beneficial for those who wish to see those across and to have that kind of reassurance there. When we see the NDP programme, will we be able to DART+ West, Cork metropolitan rail or the western rail corridor having specific figures beside them? Will we see that level of detail?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We are still in the negotiating process, and the Deputy has been through this as well as a Minister. I am not going to say in front of the committee what is the upper level of what we looked at. Suffice to say we are having good, positive, constructive and robust discussions with our colleagues in the Department of public expenditure, but they are going well. We will be allocated an overall figure, which I will break down across our Vote. I do not expect the NDP to be project specific in relation to road A, B or C. We will get our allocation across the Vote and we will allocate that across the Vote areas in the manner in which I have presented them here today. Then we will break those programmes down. For example, with DART+ West, there is very good news on this in relation to planning, and we have a big programme in relation to rail and DART that I want to see funded through the NDP in order that we can start work on those projects, as well as on BusConnects. Our big focus is on public transport but there are other demands too, such as on the EV side. We want to look at a way to secure funding there too. In a matter of weeks our plan is, and it is certainly the desire of the Minister, Deputy Jack Chambers, to have this process concluded by July.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Finally on that, in each budget each year, the increased capital will be allocated across the various sectors of public transport, new roads and so on, but when the announcement comes out in July, will we have a sense of the overall pot that has been given to the Minister's Department and, without going into specific programmes, how much of that will go to public transport versus how much will go to new roads across the five years?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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That will follow in July. It will probably be the end of July. When I agree a final settlement on behalf of the Department of Transport, that will be an overall figure that we will transpose and will filter down into the Vote. By the time we see it, it is hoped in July, we will know the overall figure for the Department in capital and current funding, subject to us getting the agreement done, and it will be shortly after that - we are looking at September - when we break it down per line items. There is work to be done with that but it would be something I will share with the committee.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for coming in and giving the presentation. I also thank his officials. I start off by paying tribute to John Mulhern and his team in Kerry Airport who steered the airport through Covid. I recently used the new arrivals department there. It was great to be into your car within ten minutes of the plane hitting the ground in Kerry Airport. I just wanted to pay tribute to John and his team.

I have a couple of questions. It has already been mentioned that the responsibility of the Department is for people and places to be sustainably connected. Under subhead A, there is a question mark about the downscaling of Government ambition, given the funding for greenways is down by €5 million, the Revised Estimates Volume for active travel infrastructure for 2025 is 10% less and there are no new rail carriages. I am concerned about this and it is a point that has been brought up by others.

The Minister touched on the issue of the EV charging network. There are seven EV posts for every 10,000 people in this State, which compares unfavourably to an EU average of 20 and 13 in Britain. We seem to be way behind. The number of people considering the purchase of EV cars is still very low. They need to have confidence, first, that the battery will take them far enough, but also that they will be able to recharge around the State, and there seems to be a deficit in that regard. The Climate Change Advisory Council recently said that the Government scheme does not support lower income families, impedes EV growth and jeopardises emissions targets. That is particularly acute in rural areas, where the benefit of having an EV car is 35% higher because of the longer journeys that are taken in rural areas.

Those are my questions, although some issues have already been dealt with.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I will deal first with the issue of active travel and I thank the Deputy for raising this. There is broad support for it. To take 2024 as an example, we spent more than was allocated. As the projects come through, we can move money within the Votes. The delivery has been excellent. The baseline that we have committed to in the programme for Government is €360 million per annum, so it is €1.6 billion or €1.7 billion over the term of the Government and probably more, which is very significant with regard to active travel.

I want to see the further advancement of the safer routes to school scheme. I noted in my opening statement that we have seen a number of schools enter the programme, which is transformational for school safety. We have monitored air quality around schools at local authority level and, with the safer routes to school and school streets programmes in place, we have seen an incredible improvement in air quality around schools. There have also been changes in behaviour. People realise it does not rain as much as they think it does in Ireland and that you do not get drenched every time you walk or cycle to school. It is great for our kids. It is a programme I am very committed to.

I opened the active travel and greenways conference in Limerick earlier this year and I have met a number of indigenous Irish firms. There is a growth in that sector and I am supporting it. I will not delay on that but the Deputy can be assured that the programme is going to be continued and I want to see it accelerated.

I want to be associated with Deputy Daly's remarks regarding Kerry Airport and the regional airports. I have used Kerry Airport myself. It is a fine and successful airport. Our regional airports funding will continue to support them. We are very lucky to have committed people. It makes a significant difference in that region. When we couple Kerry Airport with the continued growth in Cork and Shannon airports, it is very welcome.

With regard to EV charging, I have met with Marie Donnelly, the chair of the Climate Change Advisory Council, both individually and also with the whole council. I welcome its report, which was constructive, critical in parts, but also instructive on what we need to do. I have published the EV charging infrastructure national plan and we are funding it. In answer to Deputy Daly last night, I gave specific details about further fast EV charging points across our motorway network and regional roads. The Deputy is right to highlight that we are behind the European average. We have a strategy to accelerate the delivery of EV charging across the country and not only do we have a strategy, but it is funded and we will fund it. We will be making further announcements later this year regarding specific projects.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister have a target as to when we are going to achieve the EU average?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The national plan is up to 2030 and we will see it rolled out on a phased basis throughout that period. We have work to do, unquestionably, but I would contest that in the last couple of years in particular, we have seen a significant increase in charging facilities. We have other things to deal with as well, including the charging issues for terraced houses and multi-unit developments.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister have a specific date as to when he wants to achieve that?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We have published that in the national plan insofar as there is a phased roll-out between now and 2030. If the Deputy is asking me whether I have a target for when I am going to reach 13 per 10,000, I do not have that here in front of me but I will supply it to the Deputy.

The Deputy raised the matter of grants for rural dwellers, rightly so. I am assessing options with regard to EV grants. We have seen a 23% uptick in new registrations in quarter 1 of this year. I am looking at options around lower middle income families and also rural dwellers, in particular options around the grant. That will not necessarily mean an increase in the overall EV grant envelope but, shall we say, a more focused grant. I am working through that at the moment. Should I get agreement to make those changes, I will be bringing them forward later in the year.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Will that include, or is the Minister considering, a grant for second-hand EVs?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I am.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Reference was made to phase 2 of the Killarney bypass, which is at the options section. That was to be completed by the end of quarter 2, which is this month. Has it been completed? Does the Minister have an update on the delivery of the Killarney bypass?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have it with me but I will hopefully have that information for the Deputy before the end of the session.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister know whether phase 2 has been completed by the end of quarter 2, as per the report?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The end of quarter 2 is near. I do not know but I will find out and let the Deputy know during the course of this committee hearing. We are checking that now. I will come back to the Deputy.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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In the budget, €98 million is set aside for public-private partnership operational payments. Is the Minister committed to that model? For example, €98 million would do that road and the upgrade of the road in Cobh. Is the Minister committed to PPPs into the future? The local improvement scheme comes under the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht. Some €98 million would probably cover that for the next 20 years. By the way, is the Minister disappointed with the LIS in the sense that there is a decrease in the amount of money being set aside for local roads?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We have a job of work to do there. To go back to the original question, we have entered into contracts on PPP and we are committed to those contracts. An example is the monitoring of our motorway network at both the Jack Lynch tunnel and the Dublin Port tunnel, where I recently visited the centre. There is an upgrade of all of our cameras and monitoring right the way across the motorway network. That is being delivered through the PPP contract. I see that as a way of dealing with this that assists us in being able to free up capital in other areas. The €98 million that the Deputy referred to is good value for money, given what we are getting. Unfortunately, it would not pay for the road to Cobh and we would need more to pay for that. What I would say to the Deputy is that we are committed to those contracts and to fulfilling and making good the conditions of the contract. There are benefits to that.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister happy that they are good value for money?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I am.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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In relation to disabilities, not enough people with disabilities are using public transport - I think the figure is just 6%. Does the Minister have a plan to increase that over the coming years?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I have worked with the Minister, Deputy Foley, on the national disability strategy and our Department has made a detailed submission to that. I have also met with disability public transport users, who are a very important part of our stakeholder forum.

If someone has a disability, it should not be any different for him or her to access public transport.

Regarding the physical fleet we have, I met with Bus Éireann officials about this the week before last. They have made really impressive strides in that regard to improve its fleet and make it fully accessible. Fifteen of our train stations are hub stations across the country. I met with Jim Meade at Heuston Station about a month ago and I met with representatives of the Disability Users Group. They really welcomed the advancements Iarnród Éireann made in ensuring that people did not have to book slots on trains 24 hours before. This is not what should happen. We still have work to do in that space and I am very much guided by public transport users with disabilities and what they want. We have started really well with them during the term of this Government. We have listened and worked with them. I mentioned our rail fleet in response to Deputy Boland. The new carriages will be fully accessible from ramp to platform. We have to continue. As I said in my opening remarks, the customer is central to everything we do. If we look at the importance of ensuring those with disabilities can go about their daily lives, using public transport safely is critical and is a core principle of the Department.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy O'Gorman asked a question about maintaining reduced fares on public transport. The Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation was warned that long-term funding of reduced fares creates challenges. Will there be a commitment for next year to maintain those reductions? Is the Minister giving a guarantee about that?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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That will be part of the budgetary process. The key drivers in passenger numbers are availability, reliability and frequency. Our fares compare favourably with many of our peer countries. People can see the road of travel we are taking with the expansion of free travel for five- to eight-year-olds and companion travel for seniors with free travel and others who have it. We are allowing someone to travel with them at no charge. We have to strike a balance between the income we receive and how that allows us to operate our services and expand them in a growing country. It will be part of the budgetary process so I do not want to give any commitments here in advance of that.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned the incident at Foynes. I express my best wishes to those people who were injured. We recently met the people in Foynes and met with Iarnród Éireann. The delivery of freight rail through Adare to Foynes is continuing apace and it looks like it will be delivered on target. Iarnród Éireann has a very good record of delivering on target. Regarding the proposed expansion of the lines to put passengers on them, Deputy O'Hara mentioned the western rail corridor. Why stop halfway between Limerick and Sligo? Why not push on? Does the Minister have an estimated time when the route will be completed as far as Sligo?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I visited Foynes and saw the rail line. In Adare where the bypass work is happening, people can get a really good look at the rail line. The trains are being commissioned. It is a great piece of work by Iarnród Éireann. It has been an exemplar of how these projects can be delivered on time and on budget. The company has the expertise. Part of the all-Ireland rail review will be on the basis of what other lines we can do. There is more investment in rail infrastructure than we have seen for decades. Other work is ongoing across the country. The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, and I have been working on that. The western rail corridor as well-----

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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And Sligo.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The NDP is tied into that as well. I cannot give the Deputy a timeframe regarding Sligo. We have to get the Limerick-Foynes line up and running. That will be welcomed. I will have an answer for the Deputy on Killarney before this session concludes and send that to him.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I am from the northern and western region. We are in the bottom 20 of the EU's 234 regions in infrastructure, and deficits in transport infrastructure are a key part of that. Alarm bells should be ringing when we have deficits to this extent. Is there a concrete specific plan for the west and north west to address this deficit? The Minister mentioned various forms of funding. How will he and his Department ensure that transport investment is regionally balanced?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We will and we are. The Deputy is right to highlight the deficits. There is an infrastructural deficit in many areas of the country. It is acute in the west and north west. If we look at the north west further north than the Deputy's constituency, I am very disappointed about the decision on the A5 this week because the Government had committed to supporting our colleagues in the North regarding the delivery of that critical piece of infrastructure. Further rail infrastructure is required in the west. The western rail corridor is referenced in the NDP. The Minister of State is a very strong advocate for that and I support him in that. We have to look at it in any of our future developments.

In our roads programme for this year, we allocated about €92 million more than in 2024. Work is required on our roads. I understand that there are competing demands so Deputies from different areas will believe that their project should be ahead of another and that a lot of vital projects need to be delivered. Thankfully, because we have full employment and we are running budget surpluses, we can invest in infrastructure because of the work our people do. This is why the NDP and the NDP review are critically important. We are looking at between €165 billion plus being invested in infrastructure across the country. Many of these larger infrastructural projects are coming out of planning, which is part of what the previous Government did. In my previous role, I increased the number of staff in An Bord Pleanála by over 50%. We are seeing the benefit of that with quicker decisions on infrastructure, energy and housing. If I look at what is being delivered for the west, it includes the N5 Westport to Turlough road, the N4 Castlebaldwin route, the N5 Ballaghadereen route, Ceannt station in Galway where significant work is taking place, Oranmore station, Donegal TEN-T and the Clontibret to the Border route so a lot is being done in the region and there will be more to do.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned the western rail corridor. When we look at what I regard as the neglect of the west of Ireland, the western rail corridor stands out because it is a critical infrastructural project that has been put on the long finger by successive Governments. The rail review recommended its reopening in the short term. It needs to happen. Taking cars off the road and reducing traffic congestion in Galway city, which is a serious concern, are critical for economic development. The Minister mentioned the revised NDP. Will the western rail corridor be included in the revised NDP? Can the Minister give us a timeline for when he expects this project to be delivered?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The all-Ireland rail review recommended the reinstatement of the Athenry to Claremorris section. My focus and that of the Ministers of State, Deputies Canney and Buttimer, is on taking forward the recommendation from the review around. We are working on that with the European Investment Bank and other funding mechanisms to supplement the NDP. Ultimately, the NDP review provide those allocations. In my response to Deputy O'Gorman earlier, I explained the process.

We hope to have an overall allocation in July. It will probably take us until September, when we come back, to allocate the capital across our line items under our Vote in each of the sections, as I outlined. Obviously, decisions will then need to be made with regard to which projects are going to progress. Thankfully, a lot of projects that we can advance have now gone through planning. It is a balance between what we need on roads, public transport and rail.

I agree with the Deputy on rail infrastructure. The north west is an area where further improvements need to be made. In my view, one of the main reasons for traffic congestion in Galway is the Galway ring road-----

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I will come to that.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I am just coming to it now.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Are we talking about a decision later this year on the projects included in the rail review?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I will not give the Deputy a specific timeframe because I do not have it. It depends on what the allocation is in the NDP review. It is dependent upon that. As I said to Deputy O'Gorman, there is a process. In July, there will be a conclusion to the review of the NDP. We will come back in September regarding how we will have allocated that across the Vote, about which I am happy to come to the committee. There will then be a further piece of work on what additional projects we can undertake based on the additional allocation we get. We are probably looking at later this year for that. I do not want to be vague about it but that is the best I have at the moment.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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What are the Minister's views on the Claremorris to Collooney section and whether that project is viable in the medium term? His officials were before the committee last week and were not very keen on it. What are his views on it?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I am guided by advice I get from experts. The review did not recommend the Claremorris to Sligo section but it noted it should be looked at on a regular basis. That is the position at present. My position does not differ from the position my officials articulated to the committee last week when it had its briefing.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Rail carriages were spoken about. There are plans for new electric carriages to be delivered within the DART network. I raised with the Minister previously the capacity issues we had on regional services. I think he mentioned it would be quarter 4 of 2026 when the first electric carriages would be operational on the DART network. My understanding is that the existing diesel carriages will move out to the regional routes after that. In that case, will it be 2027 or 2028 when regional routes that need extra carriages will get them?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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No. The 41 intercity rail cars that I mentioned as now being in operation were in addition. What will happen is when electric carriages go on the other intercity and DART carriages, and on the northern commuter line, that will free up other rail cars to be moved to other lines. These will be additional, so it will increase our fleet by 185 carriages, or in that order. That will be an additional 185 because those other carriages will be moved from those lines to intercity lines. There are 41 additional intercity carriages in operation right now. There are still capacity issues, which the Deputy previously raised during oral questions, specifically with regard to certain trains turning up with two carriages at peak hours, as I recall. That is something I fed back to Iarnród Éireann. I know the Deputy continues to work on that. We need to see that capacity should be on the line where it is needed, especially at peak hours.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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It is in the context of that specific example I am asking the question. Will we be waiting three or four years before there is any potential for additional carriages to be delivered?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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It will start happening from late next year. From late 2026, we will see further additional carriages going on to the regional lines. It will be late next year, in quarter 4.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned the ring road. It is now ten years since the preferred route was published. We heard in the past couple of weeks that further public consultation and possibly a new oral hearing would be required for the project. I cannot overstate the enormous frustration with the chronic traffic congestion felt by commuters in Galway. People are losing hours of their lives every day stuck in cars. This road is a key part of the solution to it. It is not the only solution - we spoke about public transport as well - but it will make a huge difference. The fact that it takes so long to deliver a project like this is very concerning. What specific actions is the Minister taking to try to speed up delivery of this project?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will know, as he is a TD in the region, and I certainly do, given that I know Galway very well, that it is part of the solution. It is not the overall solution, but the reason for the delay in the Galway ring road is constant objections to the road, an inability by people to make decisions and people blocking it. They are entitled to have a view but it is not one I share. I cannot intervene in the planning system for an existing project. It has been through An Bord Pleanála, it has been judicially reviewed and it has been brought to the courts.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister concerned with how long this process is taking?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Of course I am concerned about it. That is why I brought forward the Planning and Development Act 2024 last year in the Dáil, which the Deputy's party opposed, to streamline planning, set statutory timeframes for planning for An Bord Pleanála and define for the first time if observations are made or judicial reviews taken, the basis on which these are taken and to bring forward a cost scheme in that regard. I am fully supportive of third-party observations and people's right to those, but the Deputy, his constituents and the other residents of Galway are suffering continued congestion because the delay to this project is fundamentally due to continual and consistent planning objections and challenges to the road, the road network and the preferred routes. I cannot change that. That is where it is at. I would love to see this project progress.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I will move on to the issue of disability. The Minister mentioned that the new carriages that would be part of the DART+ programme would be fully accessible to people. Are such plans in place for the existing fleet?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I said that new carriages would make a difference. The Deputy acknowledged that, which I appreciate. We have significantly increased funding for an accessibility retrofit programme. It is up to €25 million per annum. All new infrastructure is designed with universal access principles, but some stations require changes to platforms, which we are doing. That is under way. I can provide the Deputy with a list of the work that is under way. I take this area of our responsibilities very seriously. We are working very closely with the Minister, Deputy Foley, on the forthcoming national disability strategy. We have made a substantial and detailed submission to that. We have responsibilities in that regard. For the information of the committee and the Deputy regarding the retrofitting of legacy stations, the number of rail stations with new design bridge crossings in 2025 will be four. There will also be rail stations with improved accessibility. Approximately 22 different projects are under way this year across our network to improve accessibility, with an allocation of €25 million. The Deputy mentioned public transport. The number of wheelchair accessible vehicles in the taxi fleet is now 4,000, which has been transformational. We have got to continue to do this on a phased basis.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I will raise the matter of driver licences for people coming here from the United States. It is a huge frustration for many people returning home that we do not have the exchange programme in place. Is engagement happening between the Department and administrations in the United States on this? Is the Minister hopeful that progress might be made on this?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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There is. There is a commitment in the programme for Government, agreed by the Government, to advancing driver exchange with the United States. The real complication is the exchange has to be done with each individual state. It is not on an overall national basis. We have started work on that.

I met Minister of State, Neale Richmond, a couple of weeks ago about this. We have identified and are identifying a number of states we would like to engage with where there are high volumes of travel between those states and here and also an Irish diaspora within them. This is not exclusive to the Irish diaspora and it would be a full licence exchange. We have done it successfully with most of the provinces in Canada. It is something I want to advance. It will take a bit of time because we are dealing with 50 states. Germany is the EU state that has the most driver licence exchanges, with about 24 or 25 states. A lot of that is due to the legacy of US armed forces bases that were in Germany and licence exchanges for military personnel who were moving back to the US. The Deputy is right, in that it is an impediment for people who want to move here or returning immigrants. It is something we want to address but it will be on a state-by-state basis, so it will take time.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I thank the Minister and his officials for appearing before us today. I will ask a number of questions. The Minister could jot them down because if I do them one by one, we might not get to the end product.

I will read from an email I got a five minutes ago from a gentleman I do not know. About the road network, he wrote:

My daughter purchased a touring caravan recently and has visited the beautiful west Cork towns of Skibbereen and Bantry. As she cannot tow it, I have the job of towing it. I am sure you are well aware, but some of the roads I travelled on were appalling to say the least. I served 42 years in the Defence Force and saw better roads in war zones while serving overseas. The following are just a few: Crookstown village to Béal na Bláth, Enniskean to Ballineen, Ouvane Falls to Ballylickey, Dunmanway west to Bantry.

He went on, and I will reply to that email. I want the Minister to have a clear understanding that, while I must deal with national issues, I certainly have to deal with local crises. There is a local crisis with funding for roads in west Cork. I accept the Minister for Transport is not dealing with the local improvement scheme, LIS. I recently heard the Minister for Rural and Community Development speaking about the LIS and he said Cork had the third highest level. Cork is the biggest county in Ireland so it should not be third highest in anything. The problem is there is no money filtering in. The Minister spoke about €70 million for local roads. I am worried about regional roads and local roads. I have not seen a passing bay put into the N71 in west Cork. The last time we had a bypass put in was Skibbereen and that was 25 or 30 years ago. There are two bypasses proposed for Bandon with no movement happening. There is a bypass proposed for Innishannon with no movement and there is a bypass proposed for Bantry with no movement. We need movement. Lord God man, we need movement. We need simple passing bays. I can get caught behind two tractors doing silage when I go back down tomorrow or Friday morning and I could be caught for 15, 20, 25, 30 minutes behind them while I am trying to do a day's work like everybody else. Unfortunately, that puts people into a situation where they pass dangerously and could end up being killed.

We have a crisis whereby roads have collapsed in west Cork and have not been repaired. The council has walked away because it does not have the funding. I will not bore the Minister with the stats but here are two pictures. One is of Lyre in Clonakilty. That road collapsed a number of years ago and the council walked away and is not going to repair it because it does not have the funds. The other picture is of Allihies in west Cork. I was on these two roads in the last week. Again, the council has walked away. Yes, these are roads that are not as busy as we have in Bray and are not as busy as we have in Kildare or Cork city. We accept that, but they were roads that people used and that got from A to B. How can any country allow this to happen? These roads were built in 1800s, 1700s, 1600s, and we have not got a brown cent to repair them in 2024 and 2025. Something is wrong somewhere. I plead with the Minister to look at this going forward. These are sins of the past. They are not the Minister's sins, but they need to be looked at. Where and how are things going to change or am I going to be here in two, three or four years' time asking the same questions and getting nowhere? Simply put, Cork has been choked of funding for roads. Regardless of what anyone says, an independent report by the All-Island Research Observatory, AIRO, carried out in respect of Cork County Council clearly showed it was one of the worst-funded authorities in the country. That was an independent report, not a report from me or the council itself. Something has to change. The motorists in west Cork need to be treated with the same respect in terms of safety.

Is it a possibility in the Minister's budget going forward to have roadside verge cutting because of the dangers it is causing on regional roads and national roads? There was a report this week from the Irish Road Haulage Association. It is costing hauliers €1,000 for a mirror. I was at a funeral in Turkhead the other day. The Minister does not know Turkhead; I respect that. On the way down, both my mirrors were walloping off the verges that were coming out onto the road. Something is wrong somewhere when we have a local authority that says it is choked and does not have the funding to cut verges. They were cut when I was a child. They were always being cut. People will talk about biodiversity. Do not worry. There is no nesting of birds or bees on the side of the road. They are nesting on the inside. I am not saying we should do anything on the inside. I am saying there needs to be road verge funding put in place.

I want to talk about the electric charging points. There was a roll-out of that recently but I saw no area of west Cork being allocated funding. We are the furthest away, so we should be the number one area to get allocation of funding. Maybe the next time around that might be looked at.

Regarding Connecting Ireland and public transport, Independent Ireland got slated for saying we would like to see light rail coming to every part of rural Ireland. I have no problem taking it on the chin if we made a mistake. What I would like to see is a report on where light rail could be brought to parts of rural Ireland. I live in a community in Mizen Head. Light rail came there in 1850. I am now 125 km away from any rail, so something is wrong somewhere. If the rail cannot come to us, and I accept it certainly will not be coming for that type of journey, the report should set out the cost of where it could come to. Could it come to Bandon? Can a bus transport service connect us to rail? We need to look at areas like that. Connecting Ireland will not ever be connected if we do not look at areas like that. I can leave my house in the morning, as can others in Allihies and Ardgroom, and there is no sign for the airport and no sign for the train because there is no train and no airport. We have to travel 125 km before we see a sign. There should be connectivity going forward. That must be the same case in other places as well. The Minister will tell me to look at Local Link. It is delivering a fantastic service, and I do not want to come in here shooting my mouth off saying everything is wrong, but this is my chance to discuss these things with the Minister because he is the relevant Minister and he has his hands on the purse strings. We need to see if we can get that funding into Connecting Ireland and to look at roads that have been starved of funding and, in some cases, blocked of funding. I spoke to Councillor Declan Geraghty. He has the same issue in Galway. He brought verge cutting before the council recently. Councils throughout the country need a verge cutting grant because the verges, be they in Turkhead or Roscommon, are meeting each other in the middle of the road. That is the height of danger. People trying to walk with prams and people trying to cycle are out across the road and lorries are crossing the road trying to get away from overhanging trees or whatever. I would appreciate the Minister answering some of those questions.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his engagement regarding road projects. He has been very vocal on that matter. Cork is the largest county in our country. If we look at the road network across Ireland, there are over 100,000 kilometres of road. That is one of the largest road networks per capita in the European Union. We have a very extensive network.

We work with our local authorities, which make submissions to us for specific road funding. Regarding the specific items the Deputy raised about Clonakilty and Allihies in west Cork, I will take the details from him and we can assess those.

The more general issue of hedge cutting has not been raised with me directly by any local authority. It is certainly an issue I am happy to look at and to see what level of funding we provide, whether there is additional funding and what the responsibilities of the local authority are. In my previous Ministry, I worked very closely with the local authorities and I intend to continue doing so going forward in this role.

In relation to road allocations for regional and rural roads, we are looking at an increase of about €92 million increase between 2024 and 2025. We will see that increase further next year. We had some funding pressures this year on the protection and renewal programme. I predict we will see a very reasonable increase in that next year.

We will be able to do more. The NDP review will help us to fund the increases in funding for protection and renewal that is needed on many roads across the country.

On EV charging points, we work closely on that with our local authorities. They bring submissions forward to us. I mentioned earlier to other members that we have published the national EV charging infrastructure plan. We have already made some announcements. We are seeing good improvements on our motorway network and regional roads. We ask our local authorities to work with us to look at where they want charging points and then to seek funding from us through the climate action fund. We work with my other Department to advance the delivery of charging points. We need to go further on it, and we will. We now see a lot of private operators and garages with fast-charging points going in. We will continue to expand that. For people to use EV cars in large areas and constituencies like the Deputy's they need to have those charging points, and they will get them. We will continue to accelerate the roll-out of that.

I know the point made about light rail. The all-Ireland rail review is an important mechanism for us to see where rail should expand to. The Deputy has a made a fair point. Should it be areas where there are starting points and new hub points where people can get to proper park-and-ride facilities? We are also doing that. The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, is working on the all-Ireland rail review and I am working on that with him. Any reasonable suggestions made to us will be put and we are quite happy to meet with the Deputy about suggestions he has within his own constituency, as I am happy to meet with any Deputy who comes forward with suggestions about how the public transport network can be improved in their own constituency.

There are specific issues with passing lanes. The Deputy mentioned the N71 in west Cork. I will take that matter up to see if any plans are afoot for that. I do not know. I do not have an answer here, but I will get an answer and come back to him.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I thank the Minister and I look forward to talking to him about the N71. It has been a hobby horse of mine since I was elected to Dáil Éireann in 2016. They are passing bays, and they are simple. I wish to God someone would just turn a blind eye and let me off for one week because I know people out there who will have six or seven passing bays put into west Cork. It is simple stuff. Let the tractor and lorry do their business and let the ordinary person going about their business travel on their way. We do not need 100, and we do not need millions to do it, but it needs to be done.

There is just one other area under the Minister, which is maritime safety and transport. This is an issue he might also come back to me on. We have the Coast Guard, which is top class, in fairness. We heard last week that anywhere there is a Coast Guard everybody feels much more relaxed and safer. However, there are the inshore search-and-rescue community rescue boats, and they are not governed under the Coast Guard. They are not getting the same kind of funding. They get approximately €5,000 per year. They are volunteers trying to do their best. There is talk the funding might go up to €9,000. It is costing them up to €20,000, between insurance and everything else. They tell me they are basically out there with begging buckets trying to get something across the line. They are people who needed to be conserving their energies, sadly, for when they are needed during a crisis. I would appreciate if the Minister would look at that area to see if there is a possibility. They are called inshore search-and-rescue community rescue boats. The Coast Guard does its job, but this rescue body is also out there, and I would appreciate him looking at it.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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For clarity, do they receive any funding at the moment?

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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They receive approximately €5,000, but it costs them approximately €20,000 to do what they have to do between insurance and training.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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They receive that from the Department of Transport.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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Yes, the €5,000 is Department funding, but they desperately need to be brought up. There is bound to be a lot of inshore search and rescue out there.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I will have a look at that.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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They came to me, and they are in a bad way. There is more I can say.

I would appreciate if the Allihies and the Lyre roads would be reopened to the people who want to use them. Regardless of the use of them, they were being used by the local people. I travelled them the other day. You have to go around. In one situation in Allihies it takes one and a half miles to get to the house that is just on the other side of the collapsed road, which is insane. Everybody is walking away from it. The local authority is saying there is no money. It is unfair to say there is a lack of use. A road is put in to be used. It does not matter how many times it is used per day, whether it is 1,000 or 100 times. It is there to be used and it is the same with Lyre in Clonakilty. I met people there last week. That road is ten years closed and they are still asking me if it could please be opened, and if someone could fix the bridge. I will email the pictures to the Minister. They are appalling.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy can be sure I will ask my team to take up the matters relating to those two roads with Cork County Council. We will also come back on the inshore search and rescue.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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Great.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and his team for coming in. I have a few topics. I will start with something that will not surprise the Minister, which is light rail, the Luas and generally. Going through the Estimates I did not see a line item on the number of new trams. Maybe that is covered under one of the headings. I would like clarification on that, because this is in acute demand in my area. On the red Luas line, there is definitely an increased and unmet demand and new trams would be good there. I am also pleased to see that Luas Lucan is a priority for the Department alongside the delivery of public transport infrastructure. Something I raised with the Minister in the Dáil last night was on whether there is any willingness or inclination in the Department to develop a Luas project office. We will see this extension and the expansion of the network over time, and it makes sense to scale that expertise because there will a rapid development of Luas extensions across the piece.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The reason there is no line item for new trams in 2025 is that there is no provision for them this year.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Okay.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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To be fair, the Deputy has raised this with me, particularly as it relates to capacity on the red line. That is something we will raise, and which I think has been raised with the operator following his previous intervention. We had a good discussion on oral questions last night on the question of the project office for Luas. I will look into that in further detail. I think most will agree that TII is an excellent organisation. It has shown how projects can be delivered. There is a specific Luas project team within TII. I do not mean that is all that it does, but its specific focus is on the Luas. The Deputy last night raised looking outward from what we have now, and how we could expand Luas, like with Luas Lucan. That team is charged with that work and to keep me informed and send details to me at that stage. That is in place, and I am more than content that the expertise is there.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I move to cycling and active travel. I am encouraged by the commitment to active travel I see in the Estimates laid before the committee, and which have been detailed in the Minister's brief. I am particularly encouraged to hear about the Minister's support for the safe routes to school programme. That is an important programme. One things that brings that into more acute focus is that the proportion of children cycling to primary over the past three years has fallen. I would love to hear the Minister's thoughts on how we will prioritise and use the safe routes to school scheme to encourage that potential to go higher, because that is where the habit of cycling is formed. I cycled to school and I cycle in here. I think that is where you form that habit. I am particularly happy to see the greenway plans being advanced. The Grand Canal greenway is under construction in my area at the moment. That is a positive measure.

There is one area I would like to hear the Minister's thoughts on. Outside the BusConnects project, one things I have heard from local residents in an area like, for example, Rathcoole, is that there is not a local management service working with the NTA on local bus priority measures. I would say that the bus priority measures being rolled out at the moment are in the main under the auspices of BusConnects. Is there any scope, or what is the best way in terms of programme management, for local authorities to work directly with the NTA on local bus resolution issues? For example, if there is a village with one road in and one road out, how does one work with the local authority to advance a locally available bus priority measure? Is there a programme in the Department to facilitate that or to encourage it?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I should have congratulated the Deputy at the outset on his appointment as party spokesperson on transport. I look forward to working with him and colleagues like Deputy Crowe to advance our plans and objectives over the course of this. On safe routes to school, in my home town of Malahide, we delivered another safe route to school outside Pope John Paul II school. The delays to that were on the basis of the public engagement required. I would not underestimate the amount of engagement that takes place with regard to these schemes.

School principals have been very good and the schools want it. I refer to adjacent communities. That project was held up for nearly a year because of two or three residents, who are entitled to their view. Changes have been made. I am a massive supporter of safe routes to school and school streets, which I would like to see more of. That is basically where effectively the section of road outside the school is closed at pick-up and drop-off times. This helps in changing habits. I have noted the reduction in the number of schoolchildren cycling, and we need to reverse that. We have some significant active travel schemes in place. There was one in north County Dublin with 3.5 km of safe walking and cycling infrastructure in Balbriggan, which links six schools, 7,000 residents, sports clubs – everything. It was transformational. Limerick was referenced. It has its own greenway as well but we need to do more. I am pleased to see that local authorities are really up for this work. The active travel officers and teams want this to accelerate, and we will do so. I mentioned earlier - I know the Deputy wants this as well - that I will be seeking additional funding through the NDP review. We have €360 million allocated per year over the term of this Government, which is significant. If we can get more funding and deliver more, we will.

On bus priority measures, the NTA has funded development of local transport plans for smaller towns across the country. These plans include identifying the bus priority measures in the towns. We then look at them and how we can help local authorities deliver the measures. I will take that, and any specific items, up with the NTA. I said last night that I have engaged with the NTA as well. It is an excellent organisation. We need to be more cognisant within the NTA of local knowledge and specific routes. I have experience of this. I will make the commitment that we need to find a mechanism for a ground-up review, which is the user - the customer - view. I said in my opening statement that, in everything we do in transport, I want the transport user to be first. It is not just that a bus operator or the NTA may look at a route and say which the optimal one is. Local knowledge is important. To be fair to them, they do engage. I am trying to see whether there is a better way. It came up last night in relation to other parts of Dublin as well, and the need to invest in existing services. There is a big push for new routes, and I am all for that too, but with regard to population growth, particularly in the Deputy’s constituency, I fully get that. We can ensure that, at a constituency or regional level, we work with our local authorities. Our transport SPCs are critically important as well. We will do that.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Great. It is encouraging to hear that. I am encouraged to hear about the Minister’s commitment to the transport security force. That was a core commitment of our party in the recent election and it is good to see it held up as priority in the programme for Government. It is great to hear about the progress, especially in the past few weeks, in furthering that. Does the Minister foresee any risks to the transport security force in the immediate future? It sounds like he has made super progress so far. Is there anything he is concerned about that might not be in his control?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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No, not right now. I want it done as quickly as we can. We have to get it right. To be fair to the team here, we have done a fair bit of work with it. There are options there and we need to select which options. We had a good meeting with the Minister, Deputy O’Callaghan, and his team last week. It is clear there are no impediments from the justice side. I just wanted to make sure that the direction we were going in would not in any way conflict with the Department of justice, and it does not. We have a clear line of sight as to which way we are going to go. This committee will play a big role in this because it will require primary legislation, and we have to get it right. There will be a consolidation of by-laws. There are already many by-laws in respect of authorised officers and certain powers that are already within the transport system. We will need a consolidation of them, so I would not underestimate the amount of work required to draft the legislation and then to get it through the system. There are options to speed up the resourcing of the force as well. I commend An Garda Síochána for the work it is doing under Operation Saul. It has a focus on the public transport network. I also commend our public transport operators for the work they have done to increase the level of security in public transport and the investment they are making in that regard, be that with physical security or increased enhancements of CCTV on our bus and rail networks across the country.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. I compliment them on their public transport safety action days that they have been pioneering recently as well.

Moving to the area of roads, I am pleased to see the increase in expenditure on roads. Public transport needs good roads to operate on, which is often lost in this debate about the false dichotomy between public transport and roads. With regard to roads specifically in Dublin, in questions the Minister replied to me on in the past, he stated that road funding is the responsibility of local authorities in the Dublin region. One of the issues we repeatedly hear from constituents in Dublin is that the quality of road in some areas requires additional maintenance and additional funding. Is the Department aware of that? Is the Minister engaging with local authorities on that to make sure they step up to the plate in terms of the maintenance of good quality roads in Dublin?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting the Deputy raised that point because as one travels around Dublin, one can see the differences in quality of roads in some local authorities. I say that as a road user. I often wonder why that is the case. Is it the prioritisation of certain things within a local authority? Where specific issues are raised with me as transport Minister, I will raise them with the local authorities. I speak quite selfishly for myself, but I have seen some impressive work happening in Fingal across the renewal and protection of roads that are there. I do not see that same work being done in some other areas of Dublin, and I wonder why. Where I get specific examples anywhere, and the Deputy mentioned Dublin specifically because it does not come within the roads funding envelope, I am happy to engage with local authorities. I am sure the Deputy's own local authority engages directly with him. He can feel free to raise any specific matters with me.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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On the area of driver testing, I have been encouraged by the Minister’s leadership on this in the past few weeks in making sure that we get the RSA up to the space where it is. I note the data in the in the Estimates that was shared with us is only up as far as 2023, so it is before the Minister became Minister. There was a reduction in the issuing of penalty points and the issuing of driving licences over that period. That is something the Minister has sight of now. Is he looking to make sure that is increased over time in terms of making sure the RSA is fit for purpose?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We have embarked on a reform agenda within the RSA and there will be changes to the organisation. I think it is fair to say that the RSA has become much more than it what it was originally envisaged to be, taking on the NCT, driver testing and the whole road safety education piece. The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, and I have engaged directly with the RSA in respect of driver testing. The delays in driver testing are just not acceptable. I acknowledge the improvements that have been made in recent weeks. The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, and I have insisted on a twice-monthly report on progress that comes to us in regard to this. I am sure all of us have constituents who, because they have not been able to get their driving test, are being curtailed in what they are able to do in their professional and private lives. Being able to drive is a necessity for people in certain parts of the country in particular. We have now seen a reduction in those waiting times in a short space of time, which is good. Over the coming months and years, there will be a significant reform of the RSA in respect of its remit and how the organisation is structured. The road safety strategy is due to go to Government shortly. It may be before the summer recess or it might be in September. NCT testing has improved as well. I had personal experience of that recently. I give the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, credit for the work he has done so far in this regard. We have a new chairperson in Anne Graham. She will do a great job. She is someone I have much regard for. We will continue to work on that. This committee might be useful in the autumn. We will bring a further update. When the new road safety strategy goes to Cabinet, it might be an idea, subject to members, that it could come before the committee.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Finally, I am very happy to get the good news about the judicial review on the DART+ West being withdrawn this week and very happy that the Minister was able to announce the start of tendering for enabling works for DART+ South West. In a constituency like mine, where bus is the predominant mode of public transport, opening up access to things like rail and light rail is really important to commuters.

One of the Department's Votes is based on innovation and new research. Has any thought been given to giving some research time towards high-speed rail and scoping that out for the country?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Good point. As regards Dublin Mid-West, and I know the Deputy has been very vocal and a really strong advocate for his constituents there as regards the additional provision of public transport capacity, light rail will be a game changer where he is and the DART+ programme will be extremely important, as will Luas Lucan. We will have to manage these things over the next few years but we are in a good position now. A lot of these projects have come through planning, and I welcome the fact judicial review has been withdrawn.

High-speed rail will be part of the all-Ireland rail review. The rail review recommended a higher speed, but we will not give anyone the impression that it is Japanese-like bullet trains we are talking about operating across Ireland.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Waiting patiently is Deputy Cathal Crowe.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and his officials. I know he has been in the job several months now, but this is his first time before this committee and I wish him the very best of luck in his role. He is the right man for the right job, and we wish him every success. He has already been cutting ribbons in County Clare, so I am delighted to have him in this role.

I will talk first about Dublin Airport and its dominant position in aviation in terms of inbound and outbound flights. It has an 84% market share at the moment. I get the point, and I do not think there is any political dissent among Government leadership or Opposition leadership, about the airport cap, An Bord Pleanála and all that. I will leave that on the shelf. What I am talking about is that Project Ireland 2040 set out many regional development goals on balanced regional development. It dealt with the realms of balanced housing, balanced healthcare, the road network, the rail network - it spoke about all those headings. One heading it has not addressed, however, and it is blind to this point, is aviation. Aviation also needs to be better regionally balanced. No one is saying we will flip-end the 84% market share Dublin has and suddenly start seeing it in Shannon, Cork and Knock. That is not realistic. It will not happen. However, there needs to be some statement in Project Ireland 2040 that relates to balanced aviation.

If I may speak more to this point, when any airline at the moment wants to fly in and out of Dublin, it applies to the Irish Aviation Authority for a landing slot. The Irish Aviation Authority examines that application through a one-dimensional lens: it either approves it or rejects it. If, however, we had a regional development lens added to this, it would then have to say to the likes of KLM, Aer Lingus and Delta, "We have 12 services per day from Dublin to Amsterdam. Maybe one of those should go from another region." If we were to add that criterion, it would not dismantle anything Dublin has. It would allow it to have its dominant position, being the national airport in the capital city. It would not take from that but would allow some flights to go out to the regions. I was misrepresented on this by Dublin Airport Authority. It said I was trying to bring back the Shannon stopover - ludicrous. I had strong words for the authority, but I will leave that there. Putting in this criterion would allow everything in Dublin to remain as is but would siphon off a certain number of flights per day, per week, per month and across the year to the other regions. Will the Minister comment on that, please?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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We are fortunate in this country to have four well-resourced international airports. We have Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Ireland West Knock, all of which are growing. As regards Shannon in particular, and I have met the management team from Shannon, the airport has capacity for up to 10 million passengers without any requirement for any significant infrastructural changes there.

Our national aviation policy dates back to 2015 and we have commenced a review of it. I will bring forward a new national aviation policy that will look in the round at how aviation is managed within this country. That is the vehicle for us to effect changes and to discuss changes. Some have portrayed this as growing the other airports at the expense of Dublin. It is not. Already the projections for Dublin this year are that there will be more than 36 million passengers, and soon there will be more than 40 million, but we are also seeing Shannon and Cork grow. I would like to see Shannon grow by more. The management team there is engaging with the airline sector. It has a big role in this too to try to go after routes, but I see the national aviation policy as a vehicle to be able to point to that need for regional balance as well, not at the expense of anyone. We are ambitious for our future as a country. We are looking at new routes and new markets being opened. People are travelling more as well. That balance is required. It has nothing to do with the airport cap. I have been very clear that I want the cap removed, and we are working on that. Next week or the week after, we should have the decision on the night flights in Dublin. Just because that is being done does not mean we should not do anything else with Shannon, Cork or Ireland West.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. That is good to hear. The reason I mentioned Amsterdam is that it is a hub airport. We have incredible sun routes and holiday routes out of all of Ireland's airports. Every airport wants hub connectivity in order that you can fly out in the morning to Amsterdam-Schiphol and after lunch you can be in the four corners of the world. It is the continental hub connectivity that everyone desires. The point I am making is that there are 12 flights per day from Dublin to Amsterdam-Schiphol and none from Shannon. Cork on and off has had a flight to there. Inserting the words "better" or "more regional balance" in the aviation policy I think would give the Minister some leverage to say to the Irish Aviation Authority, "Fine, keep judging that stack of applications for landing slots, but I want you every now and again to pull up airlines and say that putting 12 routes into that airport is not very regionally sustainable and suggest bringing one over to another region." I think that would be a-----

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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May I just mention one thing? With all this, and I do not disagree with the Deputy, there is the commercial decision of the airline as well. All our airports need to be hungry for business and need to go after airlines for business and put together what are very clear advantages about Shannon, Cork and other airports around accessibility and, particularly, where visitors to Ireland actually want to go. Over 80% of people who fly into Dublin go to other parts of the country. I know the Deputy knows that. We will work with him on national aviation policy. That will form part of a public consultation as well. We have a draft. It will be a consultation we will do here with the committee, and every Deputy and Senator will be able to feed into it.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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My next point also relates to airports. AirNav Ireland and the Shannon Airport Group, the management group, have both flagged major concerns about wind farm development in County Clare, east Clare in particular, on the final approach to the Shannon Airport runway. They have said it simply poses a risk to the Woodcock Hill radar station, which is in my parish. I have farmland right up to the edge of that radar station. However, it is more than just a local piece of infrastructure. I think 90% of air traffic coming across Irish skies each morning into continental Europe passes over Woodcock Hill. It is a national asset. The Irish Aviation Authority, AirNav and the Shannon Airport Group have said this poses a risk to the functioning of that facility, yet we see application after application for wind farms, some of them pending and so on, so we have to be careful in what we say. This is important because the Minister's role transcends two Departments. The wind energy guidelines need updating, and that is a thing in its own right, but we need some policy that safeguards national aviation infrastructure from large competing infrastructure like wind turbines which may affect the operational capacity of those radars and compromise air safety, to use the words of the aviation authority.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I have the Department of Transport and the Department of Energy, Climate and the Environment. We want more renewables, including more onshore renewables, offshore, more onshore wind, onshore solar and so on, and we are doing well as a country in that regard. Some 40% of our electricity last year was generated from renewable energy, so we are going in the right direction. We need to get to 80% by 2030. We probably will not hit 80% but we will be close to it. It will be a significant advancement.

As regards Shannon and matters that AirNav, the IAA and Shannon Airport may raise by way of their observations around planning applications for wind farms in the area, that is a matter for the planning authority. I am not being evasive, but it would not be appropriate for me to comment on that. There is enough expertise within those agencies to put forward the points they believe are germane to the planning application.

An Coimisiún Pleanála will then make its decision in the round. I will not say any more than that on it but the Deputy has made his point pretty clearly and articulately.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I spoke in the Dáil quite recently about learner drivers and the requirement on those displaying L plates to have a fully qualified driver in the car with them at all times. That is fine if you live in a suburban area or if mom and dad are in the same house as you or living next door. In those cases, it works quite well. The spirit of the rule is very well intentioned. It aims to make the roads safer. However, I will stand over the point I made in the Dáil, which is that it is quite impractical in rural areas, whether in my own county of Clare or any other rural county, for people to have to ask mom or dad if they will travel to NUI Galway with them and then sit in the car until they have to go home again. Subsequent to my speech in the Dáil, a guy emailed me. He is in his 30s and comes from Dublin but now lives in west Clare. If he is to follow the law, he must knock on a neighbour's door and ask if they will come into town with him so he can get his shopping. This provision makes full sense legally but it does not always work practically. A Road Safety Authority official was asked to come on RTÉ's "Drivetime" and on Newstalk straightaway so that we could have our ding-dong debate. I will reiterate my point. I am not blind to the road safety argument. My own mother-in-law was killed in a road traffic accident just last November on Main Street in Charleville. I hope the Department will focus on that road in due course.

The point I am making is that, since that rule came in, a whole raft of new technology has also come in. There are now speed restrictors for cars. The insurance industry now has little black boxes fitted to cars so that young drivers cannot drive over a certain speed. The Road Safety Authority answered my points very one-dimensionally. I ask that, when the Minister engages with the authority in due course and examines driver tests, waiting times and this rule, he also examines requiring drivers to have some technology in the car to restrict how fast they can go and how they behave as drivers.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I recall the Deputy making that point to the Dáil. He is right to highlight the safety measures that underpin the law and the spirit of the law. I offer my condolences to the him on the terrible tragedy that occurred to his mother-in-law. Any road death is one too many. This is a job we all have to do. We have this law for a reason. I do not envisage changing it. Notwithstanding the real-life challenges it causes for some people for a period, it does only apply for a period. My focus and that of the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, is on driving down driver testing waiting times, which are unacceptably high. Our main focus is on reducing those driver test waiting lists. Our driving testing and safety regime stands up to scrutiny very well when compared to any of our peers. I know it can cause inconvenience. I am not dismissing that at all but no changes are envisaged in this regard.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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At the outset, I mentioned that the Minister was in Clare to cut a ribbon and open a road. This happened thanks to the previous Government, which funded it. People said it would never happen but it did happen and it is now open and functioning very well. Another road is being developed in County Clare straddling the Clare-Limerick border. It is called the Limerick northern distributor road. It will give relief to the northern suburbs of Limerick city and parts of County Clare. Phase 1 is very near completion. Construction work is happening today. It could open by the end of this year. Phase 2 is non-existent. We have not even got to the route design stage. We have nothing. Phase 2 ends in my home village of Meelick. There is going to be a roundabout. Motorists will come off a dual carriageway system and exit a roundabout onto the most rural of roads, where hedgerows are growing out and so on, as mentioned by Deputy Michael Collins. It makes no sense.

I spoke about this yesterday at the Committee on Budgetary Oversight. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, is too young to remember the Road Runner cartoon but the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, might. The Road Runner was being chased along a road at the edge of town. It was a beautiful highway. It used to drop off at a cliff edge and he would fall into a canyon. That is what the Limerick northern distributor road is going to be like because, when phase 1 is completed, phase 2 will be going nowhere.

I will be very clear here and make a political point. At this committee, the former Minister, Eamon Ryan, said repeatedly over the past five years that he did not want phase 2 and did not believe it should progress. That is a fact. It is in writing. He said there should be light rail systems and other alternatives. That is fine. I do not argue with that but a road and a community cannot be left in limbo. I ask the Minister to prioritise this project. For the record, I had serious reservations about some of this route over the years. I made submissions about it. The reality is that we lost some of those battles but the road cannot be held up any longer. People need it, the city of Limerick needs it and south-east Clare needs it.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The opening day of the Brian Boru Bridge was a fantastic day in Killaloe. The Chairman will know it was a very important day. I again commend everyone involved in the project. It is absolutely superb. It will make a big difference and not just at the bypass.

On phase 2 of the Limerick northern distributor road, I will engage with officials. Mr. Doocey here is scribbling away furiously.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I have a feeling he has good news to announce.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Nílim cinnte faoi sin. As the Deputy rightly said, a section is currently under construction. The issue has been that the transport strategy for Limerick did not include a full distributor road across the north of the city. I will look at the issue. This is a new Administration. I am honoured to be the new Minister in this Department. Obviously, we are constrained by the resources we have but this is something I will look at. I am unfortunately old enough to remember the Road Runner. You know you are getting old when people come in talking about you having been in the Dáil with their dad. That is where we are getting to. I know this is important and I will look into it and engage with the Deputy on it. I will revert to him.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. When he goes to the Minister, Deputy Chambers, asking him to open the purse strings, perhaps he could show him a little clip of the Road Runner cartoon on his phone and tell him what happened to the Road Runner when he got to the end of the highway. He might just release the money and we might get the road built.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy and the Minister. The beauty of being Chair is that I can either go first or last. For some strange reason, I decided to go last today and many of my questions have been asked. It is great to have the Minister and his senior advisory team here today. He has answered questions not just on the 2025 Estimates but on those for 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029 and 2030, which have yet to even be published, and many questions that have nothing to do with the Estimates. I might follow that line myself. Last week, we had the Secretary General of the Department before us along with a number of assistant secretaries and principal officers. That was really good. At the first meeting of the committee, we had a good engagement with the NTA. That was followed by a meeting with the RSA. We are meeting the Irish Road Haulage Association next week. That group is an important actor but it can be undervalued. The following week, we are to have a special session on drones. That is to be followed by the IAA the following week, before the summer recess.

Going back to the RSA and its action plan on waiting times for driving tests, I agree with the Minister that real progress is being made. I thank him and the Minister of State, Deputy Canney. We had robust engagement with the RSA on its action plan. Based on what I heard and having gone through the action plan, I am confident that we will reach capacity to undertake 7,200 tests a week by the end of September. That equates to an annual capacity of 350,000 to 360,000 tests when the forecast demand is 260,000 to 270,000 in 2026. That is really good. We should look beyond the service level agreement, which refers to ten weeks, and get the waiting period down to five or six weeks. There should be a certain number of weeks between completing the 12 compulsory lessons and taking the test. Things are positive.

I have two questions in this regard. In the unlikely event the RSA does not meet those targets, what will the consequences be for the organisation? On the issue of multiple driving licences, I presume we need to wait until September. We have that ten-week waiting period. I am talking about the 53,000 people who have had more than three provisional licences. It is my understanding that people can apply for a test but do not have to sit it and can still get a fourth licence. Where are we with that legislation?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chairman for the committee's interaction with the RSA and for his comments. I got a lot of very positive feedback on the briefing the Department provided.

At the very outset, I should have thanked my colleagues from the Department who are here with me today. Members found the briefing very useful. It was very detailed and practical to give new Members an opportunity to see what work goes on.

On the consequences for the RSA, the situation should not have got to where we were when the new Government came in. I was actually pretty shocked to see where the RSA was in relation to driver testing when I came into the Department. Myself and the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, and the committee have worked together on this. It must reach that ten-week target. It is working very hard to do that and we are confident it will. We will give it a small bit of a pass if it is one week out, or some fine. However, we have visibility now, which is the good thing, and clarity around it which we did not have at the start when we came in. I want to thank those in the RSA for the work they are doing to tackle this. We were able to make some suggestions that have been implemented on how to tackle the backlog because it has real-life consequences for people.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Very much so.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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It really did. On multiple licences, the Cathaoirleach is right. We have to get over this piece first. That is something that has been discussed with the new chair in relation to its work plan. We are going to look at how the RSA is going to be structured into the future. The road safety strategy will speak to that later this summer.

There still needs to be a focus on NCT testing. I think that has improved greatly. I am glad to hear the committee is meeting some of the stakeholders. I agree that the Irish road hauliers are very important. They are very good partners. Ger Hyland and team have been very constructive on what I am dealing with, particularly with moving towards the use of alternative fuels, and on the issues they have themselves. They are good suggestions too. I spend a lot of time, like the committee, meeting stakeholders that are partners in the transport sector.

The SLA review, the last thing the Chair mentioned in his first round of questions, was in relation to that. We can get to ten weeks, but that should not be the floor. There is obviously going to be a waiting time but if we can do better than that into the future, we should. That is a target level. You can always beat targets and exceed them.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to hear that. A number of major infrastructural projects under way this year are provided for in the Estimates. I am thinking in particular of the Adare bypass, the Cork commuter rail project, which I think is at phase 1, and the N5 development. The Minister mentioned the two BusConnects projects which start in quarters 3 and 4 of this year. There is also the M28 project, I think. Are there any concerns about any of these projects running significantly over budget? On those projects or any other projects that are under way in 2025, have any concerns been brought to the Minister’s attention about specific projects running significantly over budget?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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That is a very good question. I have not. No project has come to me at this stage that people have said will be significantly over budget. I will check if there are and advise the Chair after the meeting just in case.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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But not to the Minister’s current knowledge. Nothing has been brought to his attention.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Not to my current knowledge. I have been down in Adare and at many of our roads projects. I have gone down and visited the teams and been very impressed with what is being done there.

BusConnects, by the way, will be critical. We will start one or maybe two of those projects. They will be going into construction this year. It is really significant because it will show that BusConnects, which has been spoken about for years, is now starting. There have been particular issues, as the Chair will know, with regard to inflation across all sectors. The transport sector has been affected by that too. If I look at the M28, for argument’s sake, from the original proposal that went through gate 1 at government level – you have to look at how we process things at government level too, I would say – to its final approval, I think there was an additional €143 million or thereabouts between the first two gates and that was things we could manage ourselves. Then I have to go and look for the €143 million that is the increase in the costs over the time it took us. It is nothing to do with our Department but it is just the process that is there. I think we can manage things better internally too and make decisions quicker on projects.

I have just been told the final business case for the national train control centre was approximately €148 million and its expected outturn is between €170 to €200 million, which is obviously significant. That is above and beyond what was budgeted for. That is the only one I am aware of at this stage. It is a very important piece of infrastructure. It is something we are working on with the NTA and Iarnród Éireann to get under the bonnet on that.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. He will understand that I want to mention the N24 in my own constituency. What is his understanding of the state of play on that project? Where are we on the Cahir to Limerick section? I know we are currently at detailed design and planning phase. I welcome the provision in the Estimates for that particular stage of that project. I thank the Minister for the engagement he has had with me and other Oireachtas Members on it. There is cross-party support to get this project progressed, but it concerns me that the Cahir to Waterford section had provision for just €80,000. To this day I struggle to understand what the €80,000 was for. Can the Minister give me any comfort in regard to the Cahir to Waterford section of the N24 and reassure the constituents of Limerick, Tipperary, Kilkenny and Waterford in this regard?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair for his engagement with me. It has been very constructive and he has been advocating very strongly on behalf of the region and not just his own constituents but beyond that. We expect the Cahir to Limerick business case by the end of this year. That is ahead of Cahir to Waterford but there are no issues with Cahir to Waterford. It will be done sequentially. We expect the Cahir to Limerick business case by the end of this year and then we can move and progress it. There are no issues and no red flags with Cahir to Waterford; it is just the sequential nature of how this project will be delivered. I know this is a very serious matter in the area and has exercised a lot of people. I believe there have been public meetings on it recently. The local authorities have been good. I want them to continue to work with us. I will commit to continuing to work with the Chair particularly with regard to this project.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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While I was in the committee, a friend of mine was going through Athens airport. He has sent me a great picture: “Have a bank card? Then you have a public transport ticket”. I am looking forward to that sign being erected in Dublin Airport in 2028.

I have some closing questions. First, I would like to ask about the Connecting Ireland rural transport programme. Will the Minister give a brief comment on the implementation date for free travel for five- to eight-year-olds? I also ask him about the question of drivers over the age of 70 on school transport. Will he comment on the A5? Finally, there is a programme for Government commitment to lengthen and widen the runway at Waterford Airport. Will he give a brief comment on those matters?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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No problem. I expect to be able to roll out free travel for five- to eight-year-olds in September this year.

The issue of over-70 school drivers has to be dealt with. It does not sit directly in my Department. We need to engage further with the Department of education in that regard. There are people over 70 driving buses privately and then they cannot drive a bus to a school. We have to try to bottom this out. It was an issue in the last Dáil. It has not been addressed but there is a desire to see how we can move it forward.

On Waterford Airport, there is a commitment in the programme for Government to work with stakeholders to see how we can advance it. I have had interactions with Government colleagues on this. I expect to have a meeting in the coming weeks with the chief executive in the area. Moneys were allocated by the Government before last. Costs have gone up substantially since then but I know for many in the region it is an important asset they want to see realised. I will keep the committee and the Chair informed of progress. I have no progress to present or to report upon right here at this stage, but we are working on it.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister comment on the A5?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I was at the North-South Ministerial Council meeting in Armagh with the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Government colleagues last Friday. There was a sense and a feeling at the time that the judgment would be positive. There was great disappointment on both sides of the Border that the ruling was as it was and that, effectively, the project has been paused. It will be up to the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Minister, Ms Kimmins, who I have met and have a lot of regard for, to plot a way forward. This Government is still committed to the A5. We have to respect the decision of the courts, particularly the part of the ruling about the fact that the A5 was not included in the new climate action plan in the North of Ireland. It is not for me to advise another administration how to deal with that, but I am sure that the Minister, Ms Kimmins, and others, including the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the Executive, will be looking at the decision in detail to see how they can plot a way forward. It is a disappointment to put the project back for connectivity to the north west and for safety through the North. It is a critical project. We as a Government will do our part in assisting and funding it.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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On that and the wider shared island fund, the extent to which we are investing in so many cross-Border projects, with €600 million having been committed to the A5, and having regard to the Irish Road Haulage Association coming in next week, has the issue of the HGV levy of up to £10.30 that applies to every HGV entering Northern Ireland, including on the A5, which is an unfair tax on Irish road hauliers, ever been raised at the North-South Ministerial Council? Would the Minister commit to raising it? I say that because failure to pay that HGV levy can result in an on-the-spot fine of £300. It just does not sit well with me that a Sinn Féin-led government in Ireland is imposing that tax in the context of wider North-South co-operation, the all-Ireland economy, and a commitment of the Irish Government to the shared Ireland fund. There is irony in investing €600 million in the A5, which will happen, for there then to be a tax of £10.30 on Irish road hauliers for each and every journey on that road. Would the Minister agree with me that it is unfair? Would he support calls to Sinn Féin to abolish that levy?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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This has not been raised directly with me yet. I welcome that the committee is meeting the road hauliers. For the next bilateral meeting we have at transport level, which will be in the autumn, it might be helpful, after the committee meets the hauliers, to write to me formally. I will raise it. There is a certain process to getting things on the agenda at bilateral meetings. The Cathaoirleach can certainly be assured that I will raise it post the committee's meeting with Ger and the team there. I will write to my counterpart in advance of the bilateral meeting later in the autumn. I will be in Carlingford on the environment side on 4 July for a bilateral meeting on the energy-environment side, so that does not cover this, but the next will be September. It seems unquestionably contradictory to me in an all-Ireland economy.

Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I really appreciate that. Can I make a final call? I do not request an answer on this. In the context of the Connecting Ireland remit of the NTA and the rural transport programme, what is the impact of the 15 Local Link services? My Local Link in Tipperary provides 54 door-to-door services and six regular rural services. We have a town bus in Clonmel. For a very small investment, I cannot emphasise enough the positive impact of the work of Local Link. I am not too sure what is in the Estimates in the context of Connecting Ireland rural transport for funding Local Link. We have 15 Local Links which all operate independently. There is an opportunity to reform and better connect the 15 Local Links. At the moment, there are 15 Local Links, meaning 15 companies paying 15 insurances, 15 accounting auditors, 15 solicitors and 15 payroll and accounting packages. They do not have any power or influence to compel local authorities, Bus Éireann or Irish Rail to engage with them. They cannot use their facilities. In any engagement we have with the NTA, I appeal to the Minister to champion Local Link. Can we find an extra few pounds for our Local Link services, because the work they are doing is transformative at the local level?

I conclude by thanking the Minister for being here today. I thank his senior advisory team for being available to me as Chair of this committee. I look forward, throughout this mandate, to genuine, productive, constructive engagement on advancing transport in this country and implementing the programme for Government. I thank the Minister.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair. This was a useful engagement. I have taken his points on Local Link. We are to get a report. It might be useful for the answer for the Chair. The Local Link structure was under review for the previous programme for Government commitment. We received that report last year. We had decent engagement with the transport co-ordination units and the report, with recommendations on the current model, is great. It gives a sense of what is done. The Minister of State, Deputy Jerry Buttimer, is looking at the review and will be working with me on this. I would welcome the committee's input into that, particularly that connectivity piece. I have met some of the transport co-ordination units when I have been out and about. We have done a lot but can we improve it on the basis of working on synergies together? I will keep in touch about it.

I thank the Chair for today. I look forward to working with the committee over the course of this Government term. I also thank the committee members. We will respond to the queries from Deputies Daly and Collins which we could not answer today in writing.