Mr. Michael Gaffey:

An important point to make is that A Better World is adopted by the Government as its international development programme. Unlike previous versions of our development policy, it is not just adopted by the Department of Foreign Affairs. That is an important point. When it was being drawn up in 2018-19, there was a series of public consultations - I think there were five - with participation from disability groups and representatives, who also submitted written submissions. There was an extensive series of written submissions. We also worked with the Dóchas working group on disability. It is the representative group of the development NGOs. There was a lot of consultation in that. We continue to engage with the Dóchas working group and with the disability community as we implement A Better World.

We are regenerating the firm commitment to this programme now. It was not that we were sidetracked during Covid, but that the priorities looked somewhat different. We have really examined it, consulted on it and discussed it. We believe it is still valid for the world we face today. Rather than regenerating it or creating a new programme, we are focusing more on fully implementing it and trying to ensure the commitment to reaching the furthest behind first is something we implement in all of our programmes.

When we talk about mapping and about 24% being evident in 51 countries, that is a bit of a broad brush, to be perfectly honest. We are really focused in our aid in a smaller number of countries. As Mr. Roughneen said, it will be good to go down more into the detail of that. We are doing that at the moment. We are looking at the mapping exercise that was done to make sure we are satisfied with it and we can work with it in order to move ahead. I understand the point that is made to us that all of our work should be disability inclusive. I will not give all the examples but the countries where we do our most focused work are our priority countries, such as Mozambique, Ethiopia, Tanzania and Malawi, where we have teams working on the ground with NGOs and the UN, and bilaterally with governments. In those counties, we have our best understanding of society and we can have the most impact. In many other countries, we work through NGOs or the UN. One of our main priority countries where we have programmes is Ethiopia, where we have a €32 million programme. If you include the money we provide through NGOs, Ireland is providing some €40 million a year to work with Ethiopia, its government and its people on its development. The figure for Mozambique is about €27 million and for Malawi is about €18 million. Therefore, as well as being broad, we want to look at the countries where we have expertise and experience to see how we can improve and get to know the culture and systems better.

Deinstitutionalisation was mentioned. I think Mr. Roughneen spoke about it. It is also known as decongregation. It is a particular challenge in poor developing countries.

The numbers of people with disabilities in institutions are higher in Europe than they are in some developing countries but that is not necessarily a good thing. The issue is how disabled people are treated in very poor societies. In the past, that has not been positive. In poor countries, children and adults with disabilities are particularly vulnerable to the negative effects of institutionalisation. We are working to support community-based care as the primary method of support for adults and children with disabilities As Mr. Roughneen stated, that is easier said than done. It is our ambition. We work with UNICEF in particular on it but, in many cases, it is just not possible. In some contexts, institutionalised care may be the only solution. That is where we are working to support transition to community-based alternatives as the principle behind our support. In the context of the countries in which we have the biggest programmes, we have an initiative in Tanzania to explore community-based approaches over institutionalised care. We are working on it but I would not underestimate the difficulties of doing that. We need targeted approaches but we also need broader approaches. Tackling hunger and poverty is not targeted to disability but it is essential in order to tackle disability and disability inclusion.

One of the ways in which we work is through social protection systems. In Tanzania, Malawi and Uganda, we work closely with governments and the UN on social protection systems that provide cash into the hands of the poorest people. Very often, that cash is, by design, provided into the hands of women, as the leaders of households and the people who do the work in rearing families and in smallholder agriculture. In designing those systems, what we are attempting to do, and actually doing, is to work with the governments of Tanzania and Malawi to ensure social protection is provided specifically to people with disabilities. There could be a tendency to exclude them. We are applying that inclusive ambition in the design of social protection systems on which we are working. That is not solely focused on disability, but it is essential to ensure the work one does exclusively with disabled communities also enables them to work in societies. It is a significant challenge but we recognise it is necessary and we are making progress in that regard. It has to be done because tackling the social attitudes towards people with disabilities is essential in order to make progress.