Mr. Dualta Roughneen:

The Deputy is correct that a robust economy is essential to the progress that can be made on any of the aspects relating to sustainable development goals but also in addressing disability. It would be naive to think a less than robust economy means robust communities and robust households with higher income. All those things are important. If there is a family member with a disability, that costs money. Part of the challenge in respect of international co-operation is that it costs more to reach the furthest behind and the more vulnerable. One could easily work with the low-hanging fruit but others will also pick the low-hanging fruit. For Ireland, the commitment to leaving no one behind is important but there is a need to understand it costs more money to address the challenges. Even accessing people with disabilities in rural or marginalised communities might involve driving over bumpy roads for a day and a half. These are the challenges encountered by some of the organisations working on these matters. Improving economies helps to address all these things. It means better roads and infrastructure, more income for families and communities and better social protection systems.

Mr. Gaffey referred to supporting social protection systems. Ultimately, overseas aid can support and backstop those social protection systems but there is not enough money in overseas aid to ensure they are across the sector. Governments in Malawi or Burkina Faso, for example, have to develop their own tax base and resource base, which will lead to economic growth. They can then establish strong social protection systems and, ideally, ensure people with disabilities have specific protections in those systems.

On the issue of deinstitutionalisation, one must be careful. If we want to take away institutionalisation, we need to ensure there is a solution in place for those affected. It is often the case that people with disabilities have nowhere else to go. When we consider institutions in the past in Ireland, we sometimes do not look at them from the perspective that there was no other solution for people with disabilities at that time. The governments of the time were not offering solutions. Reference was made to decongregation, but congregations played a role. The situation is similar in some of the countries in which we are working on international co-operation. Institutions are there because there is nothing else. The danger is that those institutions become a draw. The family of a person with a disability may believe there is an opportunity to move the person to the institution but the person then ends up in worse condition. Often, however, people are in institutions because their families and communities are not able to cope. It takes time to set up the systems for community-based inclusive care and there is the issue of who supports those systems in the longer term. That requires strong government, including local government. It is not easy. It is not a clear linear path to achieving some of these changes.