Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 4 October 2023
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach
EU Budgetary Proposals: Department of Finance
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We have received apologies from Senators Higgins and Sherlock. The minutes of the 27 September 2023 meeting were agreed in private session.
I welcome Mr. Gary Tobin, assistant secretary at the Department of Finance; Mr. Gerald Angley, counsellor; and Ms Hazel Ryan, EU budget attaché.
I remind members and witnesses of the note on privilege. Members are covered by full privilege when attending on the campus of Leinster House. Outside of that there may just be limited privilege. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or entity outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person concerned.
I invite Mr. Tobin to make his opening statement.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
I thank the Chairman and the committee for the opportunity to discuss these proposals, which relate, respectively, to proposed reinforcements under the EU budget and separately how the budget might be funded in the future. All of these proposals were published by the European Commission in June. While published at the same time, they should be seen as being on two separate tracks. The first track is the more urgent one in the coming months, namely, the mid-term review of the EU’s multi-annual budget for the period 2021 to 2027. The European Commission has pointed to major challenges arising since the multi-annual financial framework was agreed in 2020. Self-evidently of course, these include the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia and the rise in inflation. The proposed changes to the 2021 to 2027 budget amount to €100 billion, half of which is focused on assistance to Ukraine.
The EU has already been providing more than €25 billion in macro-financial assistance to Ukraine in 2022 and 2023, in part underpinned by the EU budget.
This mid-term review envisages this support, which helps with Ukraine’s day-to-day costs for its government and economy, being provided for on a multiannual basis over the remaining years to 2027. The Minister for Finance and the Irish Government supports assistance. The mid-term review proposals include other elements including provision for increased interest costs on loans the EU has taken out to fund the Next Generation EU package, which was agreed alongside the EU budget in 2020. It also includes the STEP proposal that is aimed at reinforcing and restructuring of competitiveness supports to help respond to global trends. There are other smaller elements around migration and the administration of EU institutions.
On some of these, non-Ukraine there was less consensus among member states on the need for additional funding. Ireland sees merit in much of the proposals but is among a group of net contributors to the EU budget who believe there must be adequate scrutiny of how and to what extent some of these policy priorities can already be addressed within the existing EU budget.
The second track in this group of proposals is less urgent and should take more time to negotiate. These are known as the own resource proposals. They concern changes as to how the EU budget is funded by member states. Importantly, all of these changes and proposals require unanimity by all member states. Two of these own resources proposals from 2021 relate to the revised emissions trading system, known as ETS, and the carbon border adjustment mechanism known as CBAM. The package also contains an existing proposal from 2021 for the introduction of a new own resource based on pillar 1 of the OECD international tax agreement. This proposal will require further progress at the OECD level. The fourth is a new proposal for a corporate own resource based on company profits known as CPOR. I apologise for all the acronyms. Members of the committee will have seen our preliminary views on this in the scrutiny note provided in July.
In summary, we are among a number of member states who believe this specific does not meet the test set by EU leaders on own resources when they agreed to the long-term EU budget in 2020 . They said that all new own resources should deliver “simplicity, transparency and equity, including fair burden-sharing”. Ireland can support the emissions trading and CBAM proposals but we cannot support the corporate own resource proposal. The situation is that, as of now, none of these proposals has the necessary unanimity among member states to be agreed. We are in a process of negotiation and this process in ongoing.
Crucially, it is worth stressing to the committee that any new money agreed for the first track, which is the EU budget mid-term review, does not require any parallel agreement on new own resources. Any increased contributions would automatically be based on the current main source of EU contributions, namely the gross national income contribution.
Finally, our approach to these proposals is informed by a whole-of-government perspective. In this context I note that the first track on the budget mid-term Review is being negotiated in the EU General Affairs Council, while the second track - the own resources proposals - is handled by Finance Ministers at ECOFIN. I thank the Chairman for the invitation today. We are happy to take any questions.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Tobin and his colleagues for coming before the committee. I thank Mr. Tobin for his concise and very informative brief presentation.
To begin, I will talk about the first track. Is it common for there to be a midterm review in terms of what is proposed here or is it the unusualness of the situation in Ukraine and inflation that is prompting this review?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
In general it is fairly common for there to be a mid-term review. As the Deputy will be aware the current multiannual financial framework runs from 2021 until 2027. Midway through there does tend to be a midterm review because priorities change over the seven years. Sometimes these can be very minor adjustments but given what has happened it is quite significant.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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This proposed change is around €100 billion. Have we had a proposed change of that magnitude in reviews recently, as in this century?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Tobin referred to 50% of this €100 billion as money that is needed for support of Ukraine. What actually are we, as the European Union, paying for in Ukraine? Is it providing subsidies for the Government there so it can continue to operate?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
In general through our existing funding for Ukraine, and what will be proposed under this, we would continue to fund the day-to-day operation of the Ukrainian economy. Our general view is that at an EU level it is much preferable to try to maintain the Ukrainian economy and way of life operating as it has been, rather than to wait for some interminable point at the end and then have to rebuild everything.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I can understand the logic of that. Presumably not only the European Union is providing funding for the support of Ukraine. I presume the United States of America is. What other countries are providing support?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
The United States of America; the United Kingdom; in general the EU has been providing a very substantial amount; the International Monetary Fund, IMF; and the World Bank. There can be different mechanisms for funding such as grants and loans. Of the €50 billion that is proposed under this mechanism, I believe that €17 billion is proposed in grants and €33 billion is proposed as loans. These would be very long-term loans.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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So this funding is not providing military material support by way of military material.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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That is done separately.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Has the €25 billion allocated by the Union to Ukraine to date been provided in a similar way by way of subsidies and loans?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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On the second track issues, Mr. Tobin spoke of the unanimity not being required in the second track. Is that correct?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Is unanimity required with regard to Ukraine?
Ms Hazel Ryan:
To have the additional funding one has to have the multiannual financial framework regulation change. That is a unanimity file. There is a separate regulation for the Ukraine facility, which we decided under qualified majority voting, QMV. So, it is a combination of both. The funding is the most important element to that-----
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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So it does require unanimity at EU level.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Has the decision been made already or is this something we must look to make in the future?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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The witnesses are not politicians but is there any concern that we may not be able to achieve that unanimity because of political or governance changes taking place in some member states?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding Ireland and the €100 billion which is obviously going to be until whatever time it is agreed, 2027 or whatever, what amount of that is Ireland contributing?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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It would be €2.5 billion then.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise to Mr. Tobin as I should know this myself but what contribution does Ireland make annually to the EU at present?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. I get the gist of it.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
It is heading towards €4 billion a year. I should add that as well as making contributions into the EU budget, we also receive substantial funding through the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, and cohesion funding so that will significantly reduce the amount of our overall contribution.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I will ask Mr. Tobin a few questions on the second track issues which he said are not as urgent. Am I correct in stating that in respect of some of those proposals on emissions, we are supportive of them, but when it comes to the corporate own resources, CPOR, we are not supporting that. Is that a correct analysis?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
Yes. That is a good summary. Essentially, the emissions trading system proposal would raise money for the EU budget through the EU's emissions trading system, and we are supportive of that proposal. We are also supportive of the EU's carbon border adjustment mechanism, CBAM, proposal, which essentially means that importers importing products into the EU would have to make a carbon contribution equivalent to what it would have been if they had made the product in the EU.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Do they make that directly to the EU or is it to the member states?
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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So it is just another method of revenue raising by the European Union.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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And we are supportive of CBAM and the emissions trading system.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Then there is the corporate own resources. Will Mr. Tobin explain how that would operate in practice if it were introduced?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
Without trying to get into too much of the detail, CPOR is calculated by looking at the gross operating surplus of non-financial and financial companies. This is a statistic which Eurostat produces. Then what happens is that a rate is applied to this total figure. At the moment the Commissioner is suggesting 0.5%. A member state would look at what their corporate profit figure under gross operating surplus was, multiply that by 0.5%, which would give a national contribution, and then each member state would have to pay in this money monthly to the European Commission. It is important to remember that this would not be something companies would have to pay. It is just another mechanism for countries to pay into the EU budget.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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The countries pay, the companies do not pay, so is not an extra tax on corporations in Ireland. Their surplus is assessed.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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However, the surplus is assessed, the mathematical calculation is done and then there is a figure the country has to pay.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Due to Ireland's strong corporate activity, it could be a very high figure for us, could it not?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
It could be. As I mentioned in the opening statement, when the EU Council agreed to look at the new own resources proposal and new methods of funding the EU budget, it said it would be an important principle that these new own resources would be proportionate. Our view is that the CPOR own resource would disproportionately hit Ireland and a number of other member states and so clearly we are not very enthusiastic.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Certainly, when it is a decision that is made that does not require unanimity-----
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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It requires unanimity. Okay. Obviously, if it is going to be contrary to the self-interest of Ireland, we are entitled to assert our self-interest economically.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Therefore, it looks like this is not going anywhere now.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. I thank the witnesses.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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None of the members online have indicated they would like to speak. I will go back over some of the points Mr. Tobin raised in his opening statement. He said that the Commission has pointed to major challenges arising since the budget of 2020 and he spoke about Ukraine and Russia, inflation and so on. What other major challenges are there?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
It is a very good question. There have been a number of challenges. For starters, the Cathaoirleach may recall that on foot of the Covid-19 pandemic, the EU instigated a recovery and resilience plan in which a very substantial number of grants and loans were given to members states impacted by Covid. In fact, it is upwards of €800 billion. Some of those loans that were taken out incur interest on the financial markets. The European Commission has to pay interest on those loans. Just as interest rates have increased for mortgage holders, they have also increased for sovereigns. The European Commission has to pay back a lot more interest, so that is a problem.
As well as that, there is the cost of living. We see that the cost of living has increased. In a sense, inflation has also increased the costs for the European Union as it carries out all its projects and expenditure and it now costs more to do the same amount it had planned.
There are also costs related to migration and the EU's external borders. We have obviously seen a lot of emergency refugees coming into the EU and that has led to costs. There are a variety of challenges but largely it relates to Ukraine, inflation and the cost of interest payments.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The EU is experiencing the general costs which domestically we are all experiencing.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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In the context of the borrowings the EU has had to make, and therefore the rising interest rates, how are those borrowings structured? Are they fixed rates? Is it money on the short term from the markets? Who makes the decisions around that? What structure is there to say that the risk will be mixed and a set rate will be taken, as we would do in our own economy? Who looks at that?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
However, the Commission decided to do it itself. In fairness to the Commission, it got what is known as a AAA rating by the financial markets, so it was seen as a very good bet in terms of being loaned money. As the Cathaoirleach mentioned, though, the cost of borrowing has increased, which has impacted on some of the Commission’s repayments.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Department might provide us a note on the risk spread and the amounts of money involved.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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What is the function of the Commission’s equivalent of the Committee of Public Accounts? Does it engage with or examine the Commission? Who examines whether the Commission is getting value for money? Are there a number of such bodies to examine the various stages?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
That is a good question. There is the European Court of Auditors, which forensically examines all expenditure by the Commission in a not-dissimilar way to how this committee and the Comptroller and Auditor General examine voted expenditure in Ireland. Interestingly, the committee may know that the European Court of Auditors is chaired by an Irish person, Mr. Tom Murphy, whom I believe is a former employee of the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Obviously, we know the president of the European Court of Auditors well and we are satisfied that he takes a forensic approach to expenditure.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is that the only formal oversight group that examines all of the EU’s spend?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
In some ways, it is probably the closest to what the Comptroller and Auditor General and this committee do, but there is also an EU budget Council, which is a council of EU finance and budget ministers that meets a couple of times per year to assess how the EU budget is going. The Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, attends on behalf of Ireland.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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What about the Members we elect? What oversight work do they do?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is that a forensic assessment or does the committee just take a general look at the figures?
Ms Hazel Ryan:
The European Parliament grants discharge to the Commission’s budget. There is an annual process whereby there is scrutiny in the Council and the Parliament of whether the Commission’s budget has been implemented legally. We do that on the basis of the reports that are generated by the European Court of Auditors. Both the Council and the Parliament take part in-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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They are all robust examinations.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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There is to be an extra €100 billion in the budget from 2021 to 2027. The witnesses also mentioned the war in Ukraine and so on. Before I ask about those matters, from where does Ireland’s contribution to accommodating people who are fleeing the war in Ukraine come?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Alongside the contribution we are making to Europe is a direct contribution made by the Irish Government.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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How much has been set aside for the latter in 2023 and 2024?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Department might let us have the figure for accommodation for those fleeing the war. Alongside that is the ongoing cost in respect of international protection applicants. We need to examine all of these costs in terms of our contribution to Europe. I know that we have our own responsibilities as a State, but we need to quantify the numbers constantly for what has been, is being and will be spent.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
My understanding is that it is Voted expenditure through the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that. It handles the International Protection Accommodation Services, IPAS, and so forth. I could see IPAS doing a better job. Perhaps the Department of Finance should examine the efficiency and waste in that service. I know that is not on today’s agenda, but I am raising it as a concern.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will deal with that when the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform appears before us, but I know that the Departments sit down at some stage and chat to each other. The witnesses might just say that they heard us raise this concern here.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Tobin.
The legislation that will be before the Oireachtas on Thursday will do what?
Mr. Gerald Angley:
The legislation will do a number of things. It will effectively authorise the Minister for Finance to make money available from the Central Fund for the two EU macrofinancial assistance programmes for 2022 and 2023. Their financing architecture changed from year to year. The potential Irish exposure in 2022 in the event of Ukraine defaulting had to do with providing some support towards a guarantee for loans to Ukraine and was capped at approximately €76 million, although Ms Ryan might correct me on that amount. In 2023, the financial architecture of the assistance to Ukraine changed a little, with member states now supporting the interest payments on the loans. In our case, the maximum exposure is approximately €67 million. This is all made explicit in the legislation. Those are the EU supports that the legislation, if passed, will empower the Minister to sign himself into and to join other member states in doing so.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is not bypassing what we are discussing now.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is not making a decision-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is supporting Ukraine’s day-to-day costs – Mr. Angley outlined some of the actions in that regard – but what is the figure for that? It is probably ever-changing, but there must be a guide figure for governments’ contributions. What has been the cost of our direct contribution to those day-to-day costs so far?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
There is a national Exchequer cost and a cost that relates to our contributions via the EU. I do not have those figures to hand, but we can provide them to the committee. Since February 2022, we have provided more than €210 million in stabilisation and humanitarian support to Ukraine. We have welcomed more than 95,000 Ukrainians under the temporary protection directive.
Those will be some of the costs but we will try to get the committee a table that sets this out.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Those costs are separate from our contribution to the European Union.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Tobin might give the committee the overall figures there, please. He also mentioned the IMF and the World Bank. They also contribute to the-----
Mr. Gary Tobin:
In general, they have been creating loan facilities to help Ukraine by way of favourable loans for the Ukrainian economy. Needless to say, the Ukrainian economy has been fairly decimated by the war. Obviously, the more we can help the economy to survive and continue, the likelihood is that whenever the war ends, the quicker the country will get back on its own feet. It even comes down to paying doctors and nurses. If Ukraine cannot pay the doctors and nurses, some of them may leave and that is not something we would want.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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This is just a general question. If the European Commission is raising money and loans from the markets and the IMF, and the World Bank is able to give favourable loans, is there not room for a commercial collaboration of sorts whereby money-raising entities come together and get this money at the most favourable rate, particularly when it is for such a cause as the rebuilding of the lives of people in Ukraine? No institution should be better off because of such a loan - that is the way I would look at it. Such institutions have a kind of corporate social responsibility to give the money. If there is an interest rate, it should be a low one and should be non-negotiable. That is the way it should be. I am raising the flag to ask if commercial entities out there are gaining on the back of the wretched situation in Ukraine.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
It certainly is the case that the various international financial donors were talking to each other to try to co-ordinate the funding they are giving to Ukraine. There has been talk of IMF trust funds, or particular financial vehicles which might enable multiple jurisdictions to try to pool some of the support they are giving to Ukraine.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is that being actively pursued?
Ms Hazel Ryan:
One of the reasons the Commission’s proposal for Ukraine is so laudable is that it will be built in some ways around the plan which Ukraine will generate about its recovery in the medium term. The idea is that while Europe is going to put €50 billion towards this, we are trying to show that leadership to all other donors and non-EU donors, who will then come in on the plan and will also fund the Ukrainian plan. Europe is trying to show leadership and to cluster support, which is some of the genius of the idea. Certainly, we hope that Europe will show leadership but that others will come in behind us.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is a help to know all that is going on. There is no doubt that the public need to know that it is not just a matter of giving and giving, but that there is a structure there - a joint approach on the part of interested parties that are seeking to achieve the very best in protecting Ukraine and people's lives there, but also with regard to money. At some stage or other, it will have to be paid back. I am not talking about Ukraine paying it back but about the European Union being involved, and all of that.
The other part of Mr. Tobin’s opening statement which interested me was the carbon contribution. He is saying that each country pays that.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
The proposal for how the emissions trading scheme, ETS, will work is that 30% of the moneys which member states generate from the auction of what are known as ETS allowances will be paid into the EU budget. As we already have a carbon tax in Ireland, in a sense we are already collecting some of this money. We estimate that if we were to be paying this, or some of it, into the EU budget, Ireland’s share would possibly be just under €500 million per annum in current prices.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is aside from our yearly contribution.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
Again, all of this will be subject to negotiations. If we introduce a new own resource that is ETS funding, perhaps we might pay slightly less in customs duties or what is known as gross national income. If I can put it this way, they are different buckets from which we will draw money to pay into the EU budget.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Those buckets are created by taxpayers’ money-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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----- because whether it is country or commercial, it is still coming out of the pocket of the taxpayer at some stage.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is why I asked about our carbon taxes and this carbon contribution. Any tax or contribution is going to go back to the individual to pay for an item or service - petrol or diesel, or whatever - and that also drives costs and inflation. If that would get rigidly tied into the carbon contribution and our carbon taxes, and if they cannot be adjusted, is that not a concern for the Department of Finance here?
Mr. Gary Tobin:
It is. There are many issues that Europe needs to think about when it comes to what are known as the twin transitions - the green and the digital transitions - as we move to a net zero economy. At the same time, we want to ensure that Europe remains competitive. Absolutely, these are concerns.
One other point I would mention is an interesting statistic which the committee might also be interested in. As the Chair will know, Ireland is celebrating 50 years in the European Union. As we were coming here today, we did a little bit of numerical work on how much money Ireland has received from the Union since it joined in 1973. Since that date Ireland has received over €85 billion in total from the European Union in respect of structural funds and cohesion funds. To date, we have paid in just over €47 billion. While now, on a year-to-year basis, we are a net contributor, if one looks back over the span of the 50 years we have been a member, we have still received €38 billion more than we have ever paid in. I just thought that was interesting and is quite an amazing statistic.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is. Both figures take minding which is why I go back to the point that what gets counted gets done. When the European Union is talking about trillions and billions, sometimes I wonder where it gets counted. It might get counted, but I am never too sure about the democratic input from elected members into all of this stuff.
Mr. Tobin spoke in his opening statement about the EU budget of July 2020. He said that according to the EU, any proposals should deliver “simplicity, transparency and equity, including fair burden-sharing”.
Who said that?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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So they have a grasp of all those things. Simplicity or transparency is not something I associate with the EU - equity maybe and burden sharing, although the likes of burden sharing will not affect the money. I would like to believe that there is a lot of transparency and simplicity out there as well. You do not see that much of it. I think that is it. That has clarified matters for me unless Mr. Tobin wants to make any other comment.
Mr. Gary Tobin:
No. I just want to thank the committee. We are happy to appear here at any time when the committee has any questions. We will follow up with any notes the committee has requested. Recently, we were late in sending through an EU Oireachtas scrutiny note. We sent in a formal letter to apologise for that. I would like to take the opportunity to apologise for that.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is fine. The Department will send us a note on the different issues we raised today.