John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is. Both figures take minding which is why I go back to the point that what gets counted gets done. When the European Union is talking about trillions and billions, sometimes I wonder where it gets counted. It might get counted, but I am never too sure about the democratic input from elected members into all of this stuff.

Mr. Tobin spoke in his opening statement about the EU budget of July 2020. He said that according to the EU, any proposals should deliver “simplicity, transparency and equity, including fair burden-sharing”.

Who said that?