Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I wish the Tánaiste and his team a good afternoon. It is good to have them on board. I wish he was just the defence Minister rather than having other responsibilities as well, but that is, unfortunately, the way of things at present.

This is our third set of Estimates. They are obviously not perfect in any shape or form but they are the best of the three we have seen so far. There are some good things in them. I draw the Tánaiste's attention to the €5 million allocation for private medical treatment for enlisted personnel, which is very important. It has been talked about for years. Many of our troops do not work in a nice environment such as this room. They jump off stuff, blow things up and get injured. They either languish on public health waiting lists for years or they pay for their own back, knee or hip surgery. That allocation is very important. Is there any indication of when this year that will come in? The Estimates state there are negotiations between the Department of Defence and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform at present. It would be great if we could fast-track that. To follow on from Deputy Clarke's point, it would reduce litigation. Many of the troops have to litigate because they owe between €5,000 and €7,000 for surgery and litigation is the only way they can get it back. That is a very important proposal and a very progressive and positive step.

On the Air Corps, two maritime patrol aircraft are due this summer. That is a quarter of a billion euro investment, which is excellent. It will transform what Ireland is capable of doing over the Atlantic, which is very positive. Some press reports over Christmas indicated that a third aircraft had been ordered and a contract might have been signed for it. This would be a troop transport-type utility CASA C295. Will the Tánaiste inform us whether that is true? If it is, will we get a third CASA C295 in 2025? That is a massive capability jump. We have never had that capability in the 100-year history of the State.

The multi-role vessel, MRV, which will replace the LÉ Eithne, is also very positive. I notice the ship has no name yet. I am sure there will be a competition for that. Many people in Athy are keen that LÉ Shackletonis the name that should be used. He was an expedition-type leader and, if it is purchased, this will be an expedition-type vessel. We will obviously have to get personnel to crew the ship. It is to be hoped that will be a chicken-and-egg scenario where, if the proper, modern equipment is provided, that will attract people to join.

The doubling of the built infrastructure investment from €29 million to €55 million is again very positive. It is a drop in the ocean, as the Tánaiste knows. Many of the barracks built by the British 150 years ago are crumbling. It is good that the investment has doubled but it needs to double again in October and double once again in the following budget.

Those are all the positives. I have a couple of concerns. The first relates to the so-called, inappropriately named, pay savings of €30 million. I agree with the Department's Secretary General, Ms Jacqui McCrum, on this. There was a report in the media on 1 January, about seven weeks ago, where journalist Ken Foxe got hold of correspondence between what was then the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Defence. Ms McCrum quite rightly described as unexpected the removal of that €30 million pay-saving arrangement. She described it as grossly inequitable, stating "It is my very strong view that it is grossly inequitable to seek to change these arrangements midway through the National Development Plan". She indicated it was a bombshell suggestion. I have already described how if the Defences Forces are given apparatus money, they will spend it excellently and appropriately. The Tánaiste stated that €1.21 billion had been allocated for defence. When I went through the accounts, however, they came up €30 million short. I presume that €1.21 billion is a gross figure and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform might take €30 million back. It would be great to hold on to that €30 million. We know we desperately need it. If it is being taken back, there is a very strong case for a Supplementary Estimate later in the year because the money, as the Tánaiste knows, is desperately needed.

On pay measures, I take the Tánaiste's point that there has been some improvement for some people who have less than three years' service. However, there is a group of people who are regularly forgotten about. I spoke to the Tánaiste's predecessor as Minister who was surprised to hear there were people in the Defence Forces who were on gross salaries that are less than €20,000. These are the apprentices, who were not really considered by the Commission on the Defence Forces as it was very time limited in what it could do. For their first two years, apprentices earn under €20,000 gross. They do not get military service allowance, MSA. Perhaps the Tánaiste will look at that. There has been an MSA-equalisation - that is the terminology used - whereby everybody in the enlisted ranks should get the same MSA. That should also be extended to apprentices. We have heard anecdotes about entire apprentice classes being bought out. The best way to counteract that is to provide them with a living wage. That is probably-----