Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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This meeting has been convened with representatives from Free Media Ireland to discuss the future business model plans and long-term vision for the media sector in print media and journalism. On behalf of the committee I warmly welcome our guests Mr. Jarlath Feeney from the Cork Independent, Mr. Peter Timmins from the Galway Advertiserand Mr. Will Ryan from the Limerick Post.The format of the meeting is such that I will invite opening statements of no more than three minutes, which will be followed by questions from members of the committee. As the witnesses are probably aware, the committee may publish the opening statements on its webpage following the meeting.

Before I invite the witnesses to deliver their opening statements I must explain some limitations with regard to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses regarding references to other persons that witnesses make in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to any identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. With all that out of the way we get to the good bit where the witnesses get to make their presentations. I ask Mr. Feeney to make his presentation to the committee.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

I thank the Chair. We are very pleased to be here on behalf of Free Media Ireland, FMI. FMI is a representative body established two years ago by the publishers of free newspapers in Ireland. Our objectives are to promote the interests of our members, being those who publish free newspapers, and to pursue joint advertising and commercial opportunities. Our members have a combined weekly circulation of 225,000 copies and an estimated readership of close to 1 million people.

At FMI we believe in the power of free media as a means of informing and engaging the public. We are committed to producing high-quality journalism and providing exceptional customer service to our business and advertising clients. Our income is derived completely through advertising, similar to most commercial TV, radio and online media. We very much parallel how they operate in that we are free to the consumer. This business model, which provides free content to readers and generates income through advertising, is the future of print media. We believe that engaging content on matters of local importance is the reason people read our newspapers. We employ professional journalists and editorial staff who operate to the highest standards to produce this content.

We fully engaged with the Future of Media Commission and we will actively participate as a stakeholder in the implementation phase. We are speaking about the future models that might operate and State supports. We believe that any State support should be directed at supporting journalism. Funding could support our members by maintaining and strengthening our journalism capability to ensure that strong and professional journalism continues at local and regional levels.

To divert for a moment to consider what those supports might be, as they are under discussion, we acknowledge the formation of Coimisiún na Meán. This is a very important step in looking at all media and how they might be supported in line with the recommendations that have been accepted by the Government from the Future of Media Commission. We reviewed the meeting held in November with other media. What is common to all media is journalism. It is the one common denominator, whether broadcast, print or other medium that might be used.

This is at the centre of what we do but it is also the challenge. The combined effort of all journalists throughout the country is what supports democracy and also ensures its integrity through reporting, questioning and holding to account. I think everybody has accepted this. There is not an argument about that. It is a question of how this continues. All of this is true for all reporting done by newspapers, radio and online services throughout the country. The journalists employed have a deep and passionate commitment to the truth and getting both sides of the story, fact checking and following up. What kind of a news media landscape would we have without this commitment to real journalism?

As to what supports might be considered, during Covid, we had the temporary wage subsidy scheme, which worked well for many businesses. We are just putting that up as an example because a similar scheme could be directed specifically at journalism costs to support the employment or continued employment of journalists. We are talking about professional journalists who have been trained and inducted into the journalism business properly. Such a scheme would offer some type of subsidy towards the cost of journalism and journalists' wages. This is one idea. Of course, the EU copyright directive is in progress. It is no secret that big tech has hoovered up a lot of the advertising revenue that traditionally went to local media, yet big tech media rely a lot on the journalism that originates from organisations such as ours to complete the searches the public make. Seeing that rebalanced in some way through the EU copyright directive is something we would see as important. At the previous meeting in November, Deputy Flaherty made a suggestion about a voucher scheme. This is something else that may be considered as an opportunity to support businesses to promote themselves, not only online but also through local media, be it print or radio, by purchasing through this voucher scheme. It is something worth considering.

We were struck by the comments made by the representative from DCU's journalism department about accuracy and rigour being important. We fully subscribe to that. We also very much subscribe to her comment that if journalism is supported then it needs to be accessible to all. None of this should be put behind a paywall if the State is supporting it. Those are just some of our ideas. We are confident that our model will remain strong. We are confident about our future and that we will continue to be the leading print media model at the local level throughout the country. We look forward to discussing these points in further detail and answering any questions members of the committee may have. I thank the committee for its time.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome our guests and thank them for joining us this afternoon. I thank them sincerely for their visit. We have a publication in my constituency, The Mayo Advertiser, which provides a tremendous service to the local area. What I would like to understand is the potential place the witnesses feel free newspapers will provide in the community media scheme and what we can do as legislators to support them in that.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

Our attitude is that the free papers carry the same weight as the paid-for papers. It is important that we are not seen as the poor relation or left out of any support that may be given to the industry. In many ways, free may be the future because people are buying papers in such decreasing numbers. We are going to end up with more free papers. The free papers should be included in whatever supports are going to be given. The points the paid-for media make would still apply to us. We employ a lot of journalists and designers. We have a similar model except that it is free on publication. The Future of Media Commission made seven or eight recommendations in chapter 6 of its report. All of those recommendations would apply to us as well, including support for coverage of local authority meetings, support for increased digitalisation and support for court and news coverage. It gave seven or eight examples. That would certainly apply to all our publications and we would hope to be included. That is what the Government can do to help us.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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With regard to their business model, how have the witnesses' publications pivoted? There is an ongoing trend where a lot of newspapers are transitioning to an online version.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

It is extremely difficult, to be honest. The revenue model is very different. Generating revenue online is only a fraction of what is generated in print so it is proving difficult. That is why so many local newspapers have gone to the wall over the past seven or eight years, because it is just a different model. Facebook or Google, the digital behemoths, are cleaning up and taking maybe 80% of the digital spend and probably more than half of the total advertising spend. We are working in a difficult space. If it is accepted by the Government and all the political parties, which it is, that this is an industry that needs some kind of protection going forward because of all the benefits we have talked about, for local democracy and coverage of local issues, how is that going to happen? That is really the question. How is that going to best be done? The Future of Media Commission's report states with regard to helping, particularly in the area of journalism, that the content should be free at the point of consumption. Dr. Wheatley from DCU said it is important that people are not asked to pay for something the State is effectively subsidising. The advantage of our publications is that they are already free at the point of consumption so that is not an issue, whether online or in print.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure it is a lot more difficult to generate advertising revenue from an online distribution point of view, even though these publications have a presence on all the social media platforms. Regarding future talent within the organisation and the upskilling required, is that something all newspapers now have to bear in mind as businesses look to advertise their product or service, or in general?

Mr. Will Ryan:

I will give an example around the revenue model from the digital side. In the Limerick Post, in recent years we have introduced video content and a huge number of podcasts. We only recently introduced a paywall for premium content for certain contributors. Everyone in the free newspaper industry is dependent 100% on advertising. When it comes to digital advertising, that revenue has never been there. It has never grown. Everyone talks about this shift but it is not about going from print to online. It is just that the advertising revenue exists in print right now. It never grew online. We have had a website for nearly 20 years now. There has never been a time when that would have even covered the cost of the electricity in the building. We have never seen that type of revenue online. The money we would get from Google is very small. As to the money from the different kinds of ads we can get ourselves, the demand has never really been there. There has been a huge push and people say we need to be moving more online because that is why the revenue is but it is not for local media and never has been. Historically, that money has been hoovered up by the social media platforms and search engines. That is where that money goes

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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If I can be excused, I am going to ask the Vice Chair to take the Chair because I have another meeting to go to. I thank the witnesses for coming in today and I thank Deputy Dillon for taking the Chair.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the witnesses to the meeting. Mr. Feeney commented that they are the leading print model at the local level. A former boss of mine, Mr. Frank Mulrennan, from Local Ireland, might disagree with him. He owns my local newspaper as well so I will give him a plug.

I want to ask the witnesses some questions in respect of that. The newspapers they represent such as theCork Independent, Galway Advertiserand Limerick Postare quality publications. I do not care whether a publication is paid for or not. When I was a young journalist and we were at meetings of the Drogheda Independentcompany, they used to give us statistics on the value a person puts when they pay for a product versus something they get for free through their letterbox, and what is regurgitated to advertisers. That was a different world 25 years ago in terms of where we were as a product and in terms of advertising. There are differences. Some free newspapers do not cover the courts, local authorities, GAA, soccer or whatever else. Issues arise regarding what can be done with staff resources. With regard to the future of media commission report and where we are going, there may be a smaller offering of print media to keep alive. The fact that we are perhaps moving towards a fund that provides for journalistic content from courts across the board will help the witnesses. My interest is in keeping young journalists in employment and helping future journalists and the opportunities they have in the newsrooms of the witnesses and other newsrooms. I see from the briefing note that the company was established in 2021. How many free titles does it represent nationwide?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

It is nine at the moment.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Is he aware how many free titles exist nationwide?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

At least another ten to 15.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Some have popped up as well because they see a gap. The demographics of counties have changed. Where two major urban centres might go across county boundaries, they do not get represented perhaps in the traditional local newspaper, and a title sees a space in the marketplace and they flood it with local advertising but the content is atrocious. I am asking who the witnesses represent. They have set out their stall here today of going with high journalistic standards. That is not replicated across perhaps other titles within the range. Is that a fair point to make?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

It is probably a perception but we would like to turn it on its head. Before a title can join us, it must meet certain criteria.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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In what regard?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

Like the Senator Cassells, some people take an opportunistic run at the market and publish for a number of weeks or every second week. We want titles that publish regularly every week. They must have a circulation of at least 5,000 and be committed to the objective, which is to operate with integrity. We have yet to examine the journalistic prowess and say how that is. We are evolving as an organisation.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I give credit to the company for that. Is NUJ accreditation for journalistic staff part of the criteria?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

They generally are in the NUJ, but we do not make that a requirement.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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So the company does not operate chapels within the newsrooms.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

No. If journalists wish to join, that is fine, but from our point of view, we are a member of the Press Council so with the three titles we operate to its standards. We also comply with the standards of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. That is on our desks to ensure we comply with it.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Are all the nine members of the affiliated body members of the Press Council as well?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

I am not aware that they all are, no, but we are promoting membership since we started to get everybody signed up to become a member of the Press Council because it operates to a standard. We are trying to get this professionalised and that might add to the accreditation.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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How many journalists are there? Their numbers are diminishing. I walked into a newsroom 20 odd years ago when I interned in the Meath Chronicle. There was a full-time copy reader. That post would not exist in national newspapers let alone at provincial level. I worked for a relatively small newspaper and we still had seven full-time journalists. That newspaper went out of existence before Christmas on the day that the VAT cut was announced. I am aware of the irony of that. How many journalists are employed across the three titles?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

Overall, there are approximately 40 between the nine titles on the payroll. Even more work as freelance operators and contributors. I estimate there are 60 to 80 in that category.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Photography was an issue when I was in the business. Journalists were asked to carry a phone and to take a picture, which was doing a photographer out of a job. How is photography conducted across the titles?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

We engage professional photographers as we need them. They are generally contracted. What people do on social media may vary from title to title. If a social media content is created then phone use may be appropriate in that situation. Other than that, the professional photographers we engage are contractors.

Mr. Will Ryan:

It would depend on the title.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Okay. Just in terms of the advertising market, which is shrinking, I am sure the witnesses are in competition with paid-for titles in each area in terms of what appears on a rate card or in terms of sales representatives for advertising. It is a competitive market. In the period in which Mr. Feeney has been involved in the industry, have the diminishing returns, first, from the quantity of sales and, second, the value of sales, stabilised? I genuinely do not want to see a race to the bottom in that area either.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

There is no future in a race to the bottom because that is not going to work because of the diminishing returns. Covid has been an aberration, but we were generating quite a stable revenue from advertising. We have almost recovered to very close to where we were pre-pandemic, in 2019. Mr. Ryan and Mr. Timmins can answer for themselves but that is generally what we are seeing. There is an appetite for print advertising. Nobody can argue against the fact that the press has a reduced market share, but there is a market. We are primarily running businesses, so our job is to run the business with the market share available to us. We also know that we must have the content as well. The Senator made a valid point in that regard. I would have somebody to pick up content that people are interested in. We have tens of thousands being picked up every week because people want to read them. It is a fair assumption that people pick it up to read it. We do street surveys of readers and the commentary we get back is that they like the content and it means something to them. We are more about telling the stories of the communities that we are based in; what is happening in local authorities; human interest stories; what is happening in various communities and how we keep all these communities connected. We give access to businesses to get the attention of readers.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I have two more quick questions. The first is about distribution. Of the nine titles affiliated, how many are distributed to homes or are they picked up in local newsagents?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

It is a mixture. It is a combination of both.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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In terms of circulation, I think Mr. Feeney mentions in his briefing note that approximately 250,000 are printed across the titles. Are they all on an equal status?

Are there audited figures? I have been in plenty of newsrooms and I heard advertising sales representatives talk about circulation until the cows come home. Noughts were being added at a rate of knots depending on who they were talking to. Is there verified circulation?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

We have taken a straightforward approach because we know what works. One of the requirements for entry into our group is that we have stringent checking of the circulation. There is only one acid test that we can do and that is ask them to provide invoices from the printer. That must represent the actual figure. Titles must produce three of those, which all of them have.

This is to show that this is the hard figure and it is not, as the Senator might have alluded to, some wished-for figure. This is an actual figure and until we get that, we do not allow them to be admitted.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I said at the outset that this is a particular interest of mine but I acknowledge that that cut in VAT last year was significant in allowing newspapers to have breathing space in the transitional period we are in. This is also the case with regard to the report of the Future of Media Commission, in allowing for funds which can be used. That is something that was done in the UK ten years ago and which I have been pushing for in respect of court and local authority reporting, regardless of whether one has paid for this or not. In that respect, I thank the witnesses. The fact is there is a representative body setting a high bar because it has asked us that it would not be treated differently than would be the case for a paid-for product. Setting a high bar and having those checks and balances in place is important in conversing with the body, in that such a high standard has been set. I hope the ten or 15 other newspapers, which are not members, would seek to get their product up to a high standard as part of our witnesses' group.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

I thank the Senator very much. I agree with him in that one of the decisions the Future of Media Commission is going to have to make is on the criteria of who will qualify for support. The point made by the Senator on the variance in quality of publications is very real but it is not necessarily a free versus paid-for difference. There are many weak free newspapers and many strong ones.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, there are.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

Our main newspaper is the Galway Advertiser, which prints more than 40,000 newspapers every week. We employ six full-time journalists. There is an average of 100 pages a week. It is a very substantial newspaper. The differentiation should not be between free and paid-for publications, and I am not saying the Senator said it was, but it is very important people realise that these are very high quality publications. I appreciate that for whoever is ultimately going to make the decisions about who is supported, those criteria are going to be important. The reason we set up this group, with strict criteria, was that there are certain standards. If somebody sets up a 12-page monthly newspaper next month, will that qualify? Those criteria will be very important. We are confident that our publications are all substantial enough to be assisted.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Timmins point is a very fair one and I have no problem supporting it and saying he is 100% right. There is a very large publishing house in this country which owns many regional newspapers. There are about 40 pages every week in all of them that are the same, whether one lives in Drogheda, in Cork or in Wexford. It is replicated and there is bumf. One thinks one is getting an 80-page product but it is really 40 pages. It is a fair point which I accept.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

That is the challenge for the Future of Media Commission. We are all small local independent organisations. Whatever assistance the Oireachtas can give us will allow our organisations to continue in existence. In a few years’ time, if people look back and lament that the local print industry is gone, they will regret that they did not do something to help it. Our industrial history is full of organisations being helped for different reasons.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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The best help people can provide is to buy the local newspaper every week or avail of Mr. Timmins own product. Unfortunately-----

Mr. Peter Timmins:

Unfortunately, it is not within the power of politicians to tell people to read or buy newspapers. I wish it was and that it was that simple.

Shane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I thank our witnesses for their presentation, which was appreciated.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator. We move to Deputy Cannon.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I thank each of the three of our witnesses for coming in to outline the very significant challenges they face. I believe Deputy Dillon mentioned earlier the Mayo Advertiser. I would be very aware and familiar with the work of the Galway Advertiserand, indeed, the Galway Independent, which was also a fine publications in its time.

Thinking of the Galway Advertiser; it does an extraordinary job in chronicling the life of a city and, indeed, of a county, the cultural life, and otherwise. The editorial of Declan Varley, the editor, every week is very much worth reading. If one wants to keep one’s finger on the pulse of the issues that "affect" the community of Galway, and I use that word in the widest possible sense, and oftentimes an editorial causes us to reflect on exactly where our city and county is going, that editorial is well worth reading.

It is curious because we had the representatives of the paid-for print media in with us on many occasions, particularly during the pandemic, and all of the concerns expressed by them are echoed by our witnesses. Mr. Ryan, in particular, outlined the fact that revenues accruing from a transition to digital are just not capable of sustaining the industry in the future. This gives me significant cause for concern when if I think of my 26-year-old son, and his generation. I buy newspapers all the time because my parents before me bought them and they just happened to lie around the house on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon where you would pick them up and read them. There is a whole generation of young people who simply do not have any interest in, and never will have any interest in, buying newspaper or reading a free sheet. That concerns me because if the model of consumption is moving on to a digital platform and if the revenues accruing from that are not sufficient to employ good journalists, we are going down a very slippery slope.

The witnesses are very much aware of the range of supports that are proposed for Ireland’s print media sector as a whole through the establishment of the commission and perhaps through redirecting funds arising from online to the print media, both free sheets and paid-for. If nothing else is done and if the landscape does not change for our witnesses, as publishers, what challenges will arise?

If we are to move to a point where our witnesses' businesses remain sustainable and they can continue to employ journalists and have the quality output and content they wish to have, what supports will they need which perhaps are not in place now? In other words, if our witnesses were the Minister responsible for the sector right now - I know the Minister has a very significant belief in our print media, both local and national - what kind of supports would they be putting in place?

We are here as legislators and policymakers. Where do we need to go to ensure that in ten years’ time, I can still pick up the Galway Advertiserand read Declan’s editorial on a Thursday morning? To be frank, I read it on a device because there is no circulation of it where I live. I am not suggesting we need to start delivering to a caravan or to small villages. As there is a real cultural and community building value to what our witnesses' publications do across all their different communities, to lose that would be an exceptionally sad chapter in the development of our media output in Ireland. Where is the industry going and what do we need to do to support it? I know the 9% VAT cut has given a lifeline. I will not mention the editor by name, but one editor said to me, post that particular support mechanism being put in place, that he was in a very deep hole and could now see the top of the hole. That is how he described the lifeline that this VAT measure extended to him which, obviously, did not apply to our witnesses. What other lifelines can we put in place in the medium term and long term?

Mr. Will Ryan:

The Deputy made some very good points as to what the problem is. The problem is not in respect of the model and whether it is free or paid-for or radio. We are all seeing the same problem, which is around how we support journalism. After that, it is just about what the model is wrapped in.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Correct. That is a good way of putting it.

Mr. Will Ryan:

In my company, when there was resistance towards digital originally, I always spoke about whether this could affect our jobs. Of course, it will not. It will make no difference because our model just moves on to a different platform. Everyone who is employed in the building would remain employed. One would just have a different revenue stream.

The biggest problem I see going forward is that, as a business model, journalism does not produce a return. That should not be the case. The fundamental issue right now is that if one wants good investigative journalism and to really hold one’s local council to account, or if one wants people to spend hours down in the courts covering what is going on, that is costly. The return one would receive from advertising or from people buying the newspaper is minuscule.

As a business model, supporting journalism is not a wise bet. That is the part that needs attention. We are all still continuing to do that because we believe it is important to the model but also because it is right thing to do. What is the alternative? As Deputy Cannon said, for the generation coming through, how will journalism be supported if everyone gets information off TikTok, or wherever? It is not even that these platforms are bad but that it may be the case that there is no other way of getting this information.

Google is not hiring journalists. It does not send people to local council meetings. I do not believe it has shared any business plan that will involve that. I do not believe it will invest in that because its shareholders will say it is not a good return for business. If it is journalism that the committee is trying to support - and Mr. Feeney hit very close - perhaps it can find a way for us to think that journalists are no longer the big cost they could be. After that, the rest is our own business model. If it is radio or if it is print or a free paper, it should not make a difference. It is up to us to make the other side of the business work. When we are thinking about costs or how to invest, the one thing that should not be on our minds is that journalism is too much. It should not be something we look at in that regard. Journalism should be something that is automatically protected. Any device the Government has that could assist us in ring-fencing or protecting those jobs will support the entire industry.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

It has been well outlined in the report, which outlined seven or eight areas.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Apart from the outlined areas, is there anything beyond those, that applies solely to the witnesses' sector, where they might need an additional lifeline other than what has already been suggested?

Mr. Will Ryan:

The Deputies mentioned the VAT rate. That had absolutely no bearing on us. Reference was made to businesses having their heads just above the water. One of the reasons this organisation was formed and we are here today is to ensure that when decisions are being made, we are included in the decision-making process.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

There is one other area in response to Deputy Cannon. I thank the Deputy for his kind words about the Galway Advertiser. Mr. Varley will be delighted. We might add caravans to the distribution list if the Deputy keeps talking like that.

I had written to the Deputy previously on another issue when the media groups were being consulted. A start-up business owner can go into the local enterprise office, LEO, and get a trading voucher for online trading. Perhaps we could look at expanding something like that. For example, the LEO will provide a voucher for €2,000 or €5,000, for that business owner to use to develop his or her online web presence. What they can do with that funding is quite limited.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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It is very limited.

Mr. Peter Timmins:

If I had a start-up business, why could I not have a bit more discretion on that? Perhaps there could be a voucher such as that, which could be restructured, to be spent on any media. The State is effectively pushing people in a certain direction. Obviously, it would favour us a lot more if people could spend that money on radio or print advertising also. Something like that may be of practical benefit.

I agree with the points that have been made by Mr. Ryan. The subsidising of journalism is very well laid out in the Future of Media Commission report. The challenge will be the criteria: who exactly will qualify and on what grounds. That could be a discussion for another day.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Timmins. I also compliment Mr. Declan Varley as group editor. It is very important for the record.

I now call on Deputy Munster, who joins the meeting online.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Vice Chairman. I welcome our guests. Whether local papers are paid for or free, I believe that most people would agree they are an instrument that drives civic engagement locally. They can cover local information, public meetings, community news, sports coverage, what is on locally, local authority updates, and keeping an eye on what is happening in the locality. They are vital in that aspect. With regard to the disinformation or false information that is widespread on social media and on websites that can disappear from the web, we never find that this is the case with local newspapers, which can be relied upon to deliver factual local news for people.

Following the witnesses' engagement with the Future of Media Commission, were they given any indication whatsoever that any of their asks or supports would be delivered? Was any indication given with regard to the particular type of supports they are looking for? Did the commission acknowledge the difficulties and challenges faced by the sector?

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Before the witnesses respond, I wish to let the committee know that Deputy Cannon will replace me as Chair for the rest of the meeting.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

I thank Deputy Munster for the question. With regard to the engagement, we have just been informed that the commission is completing its initial report under Professor MacCraith. We have just engaged with the Department in the meantime to be at the table in relation to the implementation phase. We have engaged with the Department to present on behalf of Free Media Ireland. We have their agreement at the moment at this stage to be involved as a stakeholder. It is the same point being made really. We are still focused on the same point, which is that the kernel of support must be around journalism and protecting that. As Mr. Ryan said earlier, we are responsible for running our businesses outside of that, but if we wish the journalism element to have that value for our society and for democracy, this is what we ask the commission to focus on. We would be supportive of whatever way they devise to do that.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Okay. So it is more or less about the protection and sustainability of it.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

Yes. We must be able to afford to do what we do currently, but also see what we can do to enhance it. That is what we would like to do. Content is critical if we want people to read the newspapers. Whether the paper is free or paid for, it must have content that people want to read. The content must be relevant, and must meet the needs of and be accountable to the people who live in that local community, whatever that might constitute.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Am I right in saying that if the witnesses were to prioritise one of their asks, in the context of ensuring the sector's continuance and sustainability, a voucher-type support would be the most beneficial to the sector?

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

We would certainly see that as a doable scheme. The other potential support, which was mentioned earlier, would be akin to the employment wage subsidy scheme EWSS, whereby part of a wage is supported, but it would be ring-fenced around journalism only. That would have to be designated on the payroll as a journalism-related cost for that journalist or journalists. That could be another mechanism. I am aware that when this scheme was set up, it worked very quickly and very effectively. It could go some way to channelling support for the journalist. That is one mechanism. The voucher scheme is another. If it was expanded to allow the business receiving it to spend it in different ways, be it in radio, print media or online, and if the start-up business had the flexibility to do that, that would be a huge boost for those businesses and it would also boost us in return.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Okay, that is perfect.

Mr. Jarlath Feeney:

I thank Deputy Munster.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the representatives of Free Media Ireland for joining us today. It has been most informative. It is great to get a perspective from another sector within print media as to the challenges it faces. I thank the witnesses for being with us and I thank all who contributed. That concludes our business for today.

Our next meeting will be at 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, 1 February, when we will discuss the future business models and long-term vision for the media sector with regard to access and inclusion with representatives of the Irish Traveller Movement, the Independent Living Movement Ireland and the National Youth Council of Ireland and members of Age Action. It is proposed to discuss correspondence and other housekeeping matters in private session at the conclusion of the public session on the date in question.