Mr. Alan Brereton:

I will give a practical example. Thankfully it is not as severe as the near misses. It is generally the day-to-day things. I will give an example of an individual who is loading baggage onto an aircraft with the truck pulled up to the side of the aircraft. If that truck inadvertently damages the skin of the aircraft although that is an accident and the individual might feel responsible, that individual is encouraged to put his hand up and immediately say to the pilot that he might have banged the aircraft. Obviously, a puncture in the skin can be quite serious. The basis of just culture is that as long as it was not intentional, the worker came to work appropriately, did his or her job and it was an accident, he or she puts his or her hands up and is treated fairly.

The best example of that operating in the peer support group is in one operator where if I go into work and I believe a colleague has a substance abuse problem, I know I can safely say to somebody I think somebody needs to go and have a chat with Captain X or First Officer X and that person is treated fairly. That person is taken out of the flight deck and given the treatment needed and we protect that person's career as best we can, if we can. However, in other areas we see that does not exist because we have management represented as the peer.

I have personally dealt with a situation where an individual in one operator - I will not name operators - did not feel safe going to the peer support group because of its structure and actually contacted the peer support group in another Irish operator looking for help. He went out of his own organisation because he did not feel safe in it. That is indicative of a lack of just culture. How can you put your hand up and say you do not feel fit for work if your overriding fear is you will be sanctioned? Taking a pilot out of work and giving him or her the treatment he or she may need is a cost to the airline and it is perceived as an inconvenience.