Mr. Ken Whyte:

I will deal with the apprenticeship question as I have a large interest in apprenticeships in Waterford and Wexford, but first I will address the Youthreach question.

Today we are focused on the leaving certificate applied but two thirds of Youthreach learners also do QQI modules. We should not forget that the leaving certificate applied is one route they take to get where they want to get to.

In answer to the Deputy's question, yes it would be wonderful, and no it probably will not happen. The difficulty is, to design a system that would comprehend all learners in a system that allows multiple assessments, practical demonstrations and the whole thing, would perhaps be a gargantuan challenge. It would be wonderful but it might be just a step too far. It is a bit like trying to eat an elephant; sometimes it must be done one bite at a time and cannot all be done at one sitting.

The leaving certificate applied is particularly useful for the variety for one third of learners because they have not survived in a school setting. Going back to Deputy Ó Ríordáin's point about the four types of school in an area. There is always a fifth. There is also a Youthreach centre somewhere that is there to help those learners who do not survive in the other four types of school, and they do a very good job.

On the apprenticeship question, I agree with the Deputy. We have a very significant presence in apprenticeship in Waterford and in Wexford, and we plan to have a bigger one in Wexford in time to come. I wish to be very clear about apprenticeships. There is also the role of traineeships, which are a very appropriate model, and sometimes more appropriate for the type of craft that one wants to develop than apprenticeship. Apprenticeship does not suit all types, to be frank.

The second factor with an apprenticeship is that it must be planned. It is an enormously expensive provision to have. It normally must be planned for two to two and half years in. If we want an electrical workshop put in somewhere we need to think one to one and a half years ahead. While we are certainly trying to go through an emergency response at the moment, that will not kick in until next summer. If we are predicting greater numbers down the road we need to invest now to have the provision in two and a half or three years' time, and then have continuous investment. This matter has been looked at.

The third part of the question is whether apprenticeship should be within the whole CAO system anyway. This is being piloted at the moment, and hopefully down the road it will be included.

Sometimes guidance counsellors do not pay the same level of attention to apprenticeship because it is not seen as a valid career choice. Some guidance counsellors see it as something one does if one does not get into university. I am not saying that they all do, but perhaps some guidance counsellors do not pay apprenticeship the attention that it deserves.