Ms Gillian Westbrook:

I thank the Deputy for his challenging question about how to solve the whole problem. We need to correlate with the EU action plan and the 2030 agrifood strategy and we need proper co-ordination between the various policies, including the CAP. The strategy, and the CAP strategic plan specifically, needs to align with public spending. There is no doubt about that. There are also things like Horizon Europe. Europe has put considerable funding towards research and innovation so we need to align policies with that. If the EU says we need to put a certain percentage of the funding into organics, then maybe we should ring-fence the budget for that. I had not considered that but it is a good idea. We also have other national programmes and the likes of Bord Bia.

We think the target should be closer to 12% and should be supported with a pull-push approach. It is all very well to say that we are going to get to 7.5%. That is the EU average now but it will not be the EU average by 2030 so we need to look ahead a little and see what we can do. If 30% of the research budget is for the agrifood sector, and specifically for organics, then we should put 30% of the budget towards it. We also need a combination of EU and Irish research to meet that target, although that is easier said than done. It is easy to rattle this off. However, coming up with a proper strategy is certainly not impossible. We only have to look around the rest of Europe to see how other countries have managed to do it. We have initiatives such as the national soil sampling programme and the farm biodiversity study but we need equal access to pilot schemes, carbon farming and the development of monitoring systems. We are reading some good work in Ag Climatise. It is good and we welcome it but quite a few issues have been omitted. I will leave it to others to discuss those issues but it would be nice to see some recognition of organics in Teagasc's MACC curve, for example. The EPA has called for an agrifood policy of 25% organic farming to meet its farm to fork strategy, although that is an EU target rather than an Irish one.

We have to recognise that organic farming contributes to the reduction of pesticides, a 20% reduction in fertiliser use and a 50% reduction in antimicrobials and so on. Dare I say it, what is really required is a disruptive change of culture at all levels. That is how we will be able to adapt and continue to make a living in farming in Ireland. Otherwise, we are going to get left behind. We will come to a tipping point soon where consultations and business concerns will become irrelevant and we are going to be made to do it. The Government is going to have to answer to the taxpayers as to why it is buying carbon credits and paying fines for non-compliance. If we could get over that cultural shift initially, that would be a big step forward.

As regards our role, we are running a European innovation partnership with 11 farmers but that can certainly be reproduced elsewhere. The point of it is that it will be replicated. As regards what others can do, such as the Department, Teagasc and Bord Bia, they could provide better marketing, and Teagasc specifically could do better farm advisory. The recent call for the organic farming scheme was a bit disappointing but a lot of people went into REAP instead because it was more incentivised financially for both the farmer and the adviser. We need to ring-fence the marketing budget, or alternatively, put it out to tender to someone who feels more appropriate to do the job. We need to give it a big push and not be scared to highlight the environmental attributes of organic farming. It is good for rural development, rural communities and agriculture.

The Deputy asked whether we need a separate advisory body. It would be nice to see some demo farms. That is in Ag Climatise and two grassland or tillage farms are to be put through with Teagasc but it would have been nice to see a blueprint for the dairy side as well. Maybe that will happen soon.