Mr. Liam O'Sullivan:

Senator Burke referred to the HSE and 32 hours. In our research over the years, we have made assumptions because the HSE could not or would not give us the data. We looked at €20 per hour; more recently €25 per hour is the assumption we are going on. I am not convinced. I think it is probably closer to €32 per hour. Pension and travel costs are not reflected properly in the costing. When the Minister announces an extra 100 homecare packages, the cost base is a little naive. Perhaps the committee would seek that information directly from the HSE. We would love to hear it.

The Senator was spot on about the increase in staff numbers. The reality in spite of the reference to primary care being crucial is that hospitals continue to recruit more staff and overrun their budgets massively, five or ten times compared with homecare and community care. I will give an example. The committee discussed it last week. An extra 47 public health nurses have been taken on in the past three to four years, which is a 3% increase. If one contrasts that with the 27% increase in staff at grade 8 and above, one questions the priorities.

On the issue of foreign care workers, the reality is they will provide a future supply of care. Valuing that and giving people the legitimacy to be employed legally here is really important. A number of the not-for-profit organisations have made representations on reviewing the criteria and deeming care workers to be in short supply to make it easier for people from abroad to come here and work legitimately. It will be part of the solution.