Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Senator. I thank Ms O'Donovan very much for coming in here today. I would like to raise one very important issue which she spoke about. A man whom I have great respect for in his ministerial role is the Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection, Deputy Finian McGrath. One thing I like about politics is that there can be a strong difference of opinion. I respect the Minister of State's view on this issue, but I do not agree with it. Those present might even have a difference of opinion on this issue, namely, congregated settings. One size does not fit all. For example, in County Kerry we have what I would call a centre of excellence, St. Mary of the Angels in Beaufort.

I will outline the background. For many years a very nice farmer and his wife owned a beautiful farm. They had a daughter who became a nun. They wanted to do something special with their farm, so they gave it up on the condition that whatever was built there would be for the betterment of people with physical or intellectual disabilities. For many years, it was run as an excellent facility that grew with the demand in County Kerry. A school was built there. It is now on a slippery slope. The facility is not accepting any more residents, because since June 2011 there has been a policy, over which I would draw a big question mark, against congregated settings.

I fully agree with the Minister of State when he says that he does not want people to be in a facility if it does not allow them to get the most out of their potential. If I had a family member with an intellectual or a physical disability, I would not want him or her put away somewhere, as it might be called, if I thought that by living in the community, he or she would have a better way of life and better outcomes, or that he or she could develop personally.

I know many people with different types of disabilities. I always say that it seems to be the case that a person with a disability has a fierce and great ability in some other way. It could be some other physical attribute such as sport, or they could be very intellectually smart. I took an ambassador from here down to Kerry to visit a school, and he asked a number of questions. The person who answered the most difficult questions in the classroom that day was a student who happened to have a special needs assistant sitting alongside him. I met that young person and discussed our visit with him. That young person could blind anybody else when it came to ability. At the same time, he had other needs that we will call, with a question mark, a disability.

I will return to St. Mary of the Angels and the reasons I am against the policy of depopulating congregated settings.

Unfortunately, there is a category of person who, because of the severity of their intellectual or physical disability, will need to be in what I would call a centre of excellence. I would call St. Mary of the Angels a centre of excellence because it has a lifetime of experience of dealing with people with special needs. Thankfully, over the years people have engaged in massive voluntary fundraising for the service. Those were people who supported the work being done there, the Beaufort community down into the Black Valley, all of mid-Kerry, and the parents and relatives of family and friends who benefited from the service, from staying there and from going to school there. They supported it financially and organised fundraising events. Every week there would have been a fundraising event for St. Mary of the Angels, which is now under St. John of God Order, and all the time it has provided a great service.

Unfortunately, with natural progression, we will all die. As residents in St. Mary of the Angels have died, their spaces have not been replaced. I appreciate the efforts being made and the policy of buying properties in the community and placing people in those, but that is not always the best place for every category of person. There are people who benefit from that and from being part of the community in a limited or in as full a way as they can to gain the most out of it for themselves. However, there are would-be parents of the future who, unfortunately and sadly, may have children with profound disabilities who would benefit from having a centre of excellence in their locality. I am concerned that St. Mary of the Angels, as we know it today, will shut down over a period of time because, effectively, it is not taking in people. I believe that policy is wrong. I am not saying it is wrong to bring other people back out of settings to live in the community. Of course, that is right and it is a great policy, but it is not one that benefits every person with a disability.

I have debated this issue with the Minister of State. I was grateful that when I asked him to come to Kerry and visit places such as St. Mary of the Angels, he did so. He is coming back to Kerry in January and I welcome that. I welcome his engagement and the work he has done in his portfolio. I am not being critical but I have a difference on opinion on this issue. Some disability association groups would disagree with my view but they could not argue with my meaning this in the best possible way in that holding on to centres of excellence around the country is good for the future and we should not let them be closed by stealth.

I liked the analogy Ms O'Donovan made at the start of her presentation about a person being able to drop sticks here tomorrow if he or she wanted to and go to anywhere in the world he or she would like, but a person with a disability cannot do that as there are many other factors that have to be taken into account. I welcome and very much acknowledge the work Ms O'Donovan's group does. The same issues face people with disabilities whether they are based in Holland, Berlin, Ballinskelligs or any other part of the world. If one is a wheelchair user or has any type of disability, one will have the same problems. We need the same advocates for such people, namely, ourselves as politicians and excellent groups such as the Disability Federation of Ireland which does the work that it does, and we must all pull together at all times. We must admit that services have improved dramatically over the years. We will always have to strive for more and better conditions. The resources given to people are most welcome and they have improved, but we will always have to fight for more. It has been very beneficial that the representatives of this group to come here today and Ms O'Donovan now has the opportunity to respond.