Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I would like to welcome from HIQA Ms Mary Dunnion, chief inspector and director of regulation, and Ms Eva Boyle, inspection manager at HIQA's children's team. I thank them for appearing before us this afternoon.

Before we commence and in accordance with procedure, I am required to draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

May I also remind all parties to turn off their mobile phones as it interferes with the parliamentary reporters and the recording system, and our web streaming is adversely affected.

I wish to advise that any submissions or opening statements that you have made to the committee will be published on the committee website after this meeting.

Our witnesses have kindly provided us with an opening statement but members have requested that the statement be taken as read. We will proceed to put questions to the witnesses, beginning with Deputy Anne Rabbitte.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chair and thank both witnesses for attending today. A report was completed in 2015 and another report has just been completed. What powers of enforcement does HIQA have, if any, in instances where service providers do not address findings of non-compliance? I am asking this in the context of the failure on the part of Oberstown to demonstrate that single separation was being used in line with policy and that accurate records were being maintained on the use of single separation. This was highlighted in the earlier report and is highlighted again in the most recent one. What actions can HIQA take, given that it is a red-line issue in two reports?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

I thank Deputy Rabbitte. We can take no action. HIQA and the directorate of regulation has several different functions but in the context of children and children's services, we monitor. In monitoring, we monitor against nationally mandated standards, we report our findings, we can escalate the risk within the context of the service provider and to Tusla and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs but we have absolutely no enforcement powers in that context. We report and publish our findings and we escalate risk appropriately. If it is an immediate risk, we will always ensure that it has been addressed because it has been escalated immediately. However, the responsibility of the provider is to give us an action plan outlining what it intends to do. We can re-monitor but we do not have any enforcement powers.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to dig a little bit deeper in behind that question. HIQA is a monitoring group, which gives advice and produces a report. That is my understanding of it. HIQA was in Oberstown. Was either witness part of the inspection?

Ms Eva Boyle:

I was part of the inspection.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Ms Boyle was part of the inspection. When she was there, did she have any concerns for the safety of the staff or the workers while she was preparing the report? Was there anything flagged to Ms Boyle that was of concern in terms of red-line issues and specifically, single separation?

Ms Eva Boyle:

In respect of the period when we were there in March-----

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Which was an announced inspection-----

Ms Eva Boyle:

Yes, it was an announced inspection. It was quite a settled period. There were 35 children on campus. There had been no major incidents during the period that we were there. We actually noted in our report that there was a very good feel in the units and a good rapport between young people and staff. Obviously, the staff team had been through a very difficult and traumatic time but some of the measures that had been introduced for staff, such as critical incident debriefing, were welcomed by them.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Did Ms Boyle feel that there was a calmness there this time in comparison with the previous time?

Ms Eva Boyle:

I felt that it was certainly a more settled environment.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you Chairman.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Sherlock is next.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Professors Goldson and Hardwick are referenced in the report. How does what they were doing and what HIQA does differ? Their purpose, according to the report, was to evaluate practice and policy in line with international standards and best practice, to identify obstacles or barriers to achieving greater implementation of international standards and best practice and to make recommendations to ensure greater and more successful implementation of these standards. Is that not what HIQA does?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

They were a group of professionals who were commissioned by the board of Oberstown to conduct a review, which was independent and based on their expertise in the area. We regulate and monitor against nationally mandated standards. However, we did meet both professors when they were conducting their own review. We fed into that review and indeed, they would have commented - anecdotally - on our findings, which correlated with their own findings.

The 90-odd recommendations in the report were aligned to many of our recommendations. However, I would nuance that by saying we only saw the recommendations and have not seen the report. Therefore it would be difficult for us to make an assessment of those recommendations without seeing the supporting findings and narrative to the recommendations.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The committee has had some consideration of that issue at hand, because it is the one piece we have not had the opportunity to interrogate although, as Ms Dunnion noted, we have sight of the recommendations. Notwithstanding that, I want to understand HIQA's point of view and if she is comfortable now with the cultural and procedural changes and the improvements that have been articulated by the chairman of the board and the chief executive. They have made a submission to this committee and I am pretty sure that Ms Dunnion has had sight of that submission. Is there anything in that submission that has been stated previously that she would critique in any way?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

In our review and monitoring, we have seen, at a very high level, improvements in Oberstown in the governance structure, training, staff development and support. We identified two major non-compliances and they were in the context of health care and the single separation. They were major issues of non-compliance. We assess any provider on how well they respond to risk. We received a very positive response from Oberstown in the context of our findings. While we have not inspected yet, we will do so in the near future and will review, in the context of that review inspection, the action plans as identified through the committee and to ourselves formally from Oberstown.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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On the single separation issue, which I think HIQA adjudicated on the fact that it was not consistently adhered to by staff or management. Obviously there is a process under way where that is being monitored. What methodology does HIQA use? Does it involve inspectors going in and talking to staff, inspecting the physical facilities and so on? How does it actually work?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

I thank the Deputy for the question. I will ask my colleague Ms Eva Boyle to take that question.

Ms Eva Boyle:

We get a dataset in advance of our inspection in order that we have key information on which we have sought the figures. In respect of single separation, for example, we have the number of children who have experienced single separation and the number of incidents of single separation. When we are going in, we take a sample over a period of time so we may look at individual children and follow them for a number of days in terms of their experiences, whether they have been in single separation or otherwise and the reasons for it. We look at the application of the policy, the reason it has been there and how it is documented. We ascertain whether we can see that the staff have been making every effort to make sure that children are removed from single separation as quickly as possible, because it is very important to bear in mind that single separation is to be a response as a result of extreme risk. It should be an unusual intervention that is used by the staff team.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What criteria do HIQA apply? Presumably, it will use best international practice. What is best international practice for the purposes of the HIQA inspections? HIQA refers to how the authorisations for the approval of the use of single separation and the extension to the time spent in single separation were not always completed by managers in line with policy. One can overcome that by documenting, time keeping and so on, but one must see the justification in the first instance for single separation. As HIQA obviously has regard to best international practice, can Ms Boyle enlighten us as to what best international practice is?

Ms Eva Boyle:

We look at a number of basic things. The concept of restrictive practice is well known and restrictive practices are where a child's movement is impeded. Naturally the young people in Oberstown are there by order of the courts or are there on remand, so their movement has been restricted anyway. It could be medication that is prescribed, if it is a medical restrictive practice or it could be the environment that is restricted.

That is the case in single separation where the door is locked. Best international practice shows that restrictive practices should apply for the shortest possible time, should be continuously reviewed and every effort should be made to avoid them. When considering the issue of single separation and restrictive practices we must also bear in mind the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the need to provide for very basic human rights, for example, the rights to fresh air and reading material.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The measure of success for those who read the report and examine the Oberstown campus will be evidence of cultural change. I perceive that cultural change is taking place in Oberstown and that it is moving towards a more positive disposition with regard to tackling these issues from a staffing point of view. I also perceive that internal communications have dramatically improved. Are my perceptions correct?

Ms Eva Boyle:

I first visited Oberstown in 2014. I saw change when I visited again this year and, while the process has not been completed, I certainly saw progress on many fronts. In terms of the development of policy initiatives and completing research about the profile of young people, this gives a greater understanding of what children need in terms of placement planning. While these are works in progress, I have certainly seen an improvement.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I do not necessarily expect Ms Boyle to comment on my concluding remarks. If there are real time improvements across all the HIQA standards, it will be necessary for members to see a copy of the Goldson and Hardwick report. It is not enough that we have the recommendations without seeing what is in the body of the report. While I understand that legal issues may arise in respect of the report, if the improvements are taking place in real time, I do not see any reason the committee cannot have regard to the report. We need to have a greater interrogation of the Goldson and Hardwick report. That may not be the correct name but those are the names of the report's authors. We need to see what is in the report because it is a missing piece of the jigsaw. I have no further questions and I thank Ms Boyle for her time.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Has HIQA ever visited Oberstown unannounced?

Ms Eva Boyle:

We visited unannounced on one occasion in 2015 in a follow-up inspection to the 2014 report. We reviewed the action plan submitted in 2014 during that inspection.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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During this unannounced visit, did HIQA find much improvement on its previous visit in 2014?

Ms Eva Boyle:

We reviewed specifically the actions that Oberstown had submitted during that inspection. We saw progress and highlighted issues of concern, one of which was related to fire safety information for young people and ensuring they knew how to evacuate from the campus if that was required.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I note fire safety was also an issue in the most recent report.

Ms Eva Boyle:

Fire safety is an issue.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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While it is not a major issue, it is one of-----

Ms Eva Boyle:

There were concerns regarding some practical elements such as fire doors. We have obtained updated information on that action and we understand from the campus director that fire doors were delivered on 8 November last and further doors will be delivered. We understand the doors will be fitted by the end of the first quarter of 2021.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is the third time I have addressed representatives of HIQA or Oberstown on this issue, yet the fire doors remain an issue of significant concern.

Ms Mary Dunnion:

We brought a fire officer from HIQA on our most recent inspection because we believed the specialist knowledge available to us internally would be of benefit. It was on the basis of the specialist's assessment that there was deemed to be a moderate non-compliance in this area. The Deputy is correct, however, that one of the key issues was the provision of fire doors. The action plan anticipated that these doors would be in place by the end of quarter 3 or start of quarter 4 of this year.

Our most recent communique indicates that it will not be until quarter 1 of 2018.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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In terms of major non-compliance, the inspection report states that "the provider is failing to meet the National Standards in the following...". When was the last time HIQA reviewed its national standards for inspections on Oberstown or juvenile centres?

Ms Eva Boyle:

A process is under way. We are waiting for the Department to issue new standards. We were consulted about the proposed standards. We gave some feedback and await further developments.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The witnesses have said that they mirrored children, spoke to or met children. What was the longest time that any child HIQA engaged with, from a review of the files, was held in single separation?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Nine days is one case that we highlighted in our report. We have seen instances where a child who had been in for nine days and released experienced another period of single separation. We have seen instances where a child had nine days and then another few days of single separation.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Can Ms Boyle explain single separation in Oberstown to everybody who is watching proceedings?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Single separation in Oberstown refers to a child who may be in his or her bedroom, in a locked room on his or her own and staff speak to him or her about the incident that gave rise to his or her separation. Staff encourage the child to discuss why he or she acted in a particular and offer a solution. Staff may decide to move the child from his or her bedroom to a general purpose room where there may be an activity and, initially, the child would interact with staff. The child may go back to his or her room again, depending on how the interaction went. Staff may decide to move the child again after a period of observation and talking to the child. Staff may decide to allow the child to mix with another child. It would mean there would be another child mixing with the child who has remained in his or her bedroom for single separation. Depending on how that goes, staff may decide to allow the child to return to the group. We have see instances where children, prior to being with their group or allowed to mix with another child, have gone to the yard outside for fresh air before returning to their bedroom.

A protection room is used in more extreme situations. We have seen a reduction in the use of the protection room. The room is specially designed for single separation. It literally would not have a bed but a mattress may be put in for a child.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Let us discuss the child who spent nine days in single separation. During that time did he or she attend school?

Ms Eva Boyle:

No.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Did he or she eat with his or her friends or with other people?

Ms Eva Boyle:

No, the child would eat in his or her room and staff would bring the food to him or her.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Did the child who spent nine days in single separation get outside for fresh air?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Yes, but not until the eighthday.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Can Ms Boyle confirm that the child was left in a locked room, ate separately, slept separately and did not get outside for fresh air until the eighth day?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Yes.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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What about the child's human rights? HIQA monitors and carries out inspections. What is a red line issue for HIQA? Did HIQA escalate the matter from that exact point? I assume that the case came to light when HIQA officials were on site and it was a red line issue that had to be reported straight away. How did HIQA escalate matters?

Ms Eva Boyle:

That particular example had taken place a number of months prior to the inspection. Therefore, the child was not physically in the room during the course of our inspection.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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All right.

Ms Eva Boyle:

We would approach the matter in two different ways. If we found a child had been in single separation for nine days and we had concerns about their rights while conducting an inspection we would consider issuing an immediate action plan. We would do so to get an immediate response from the campus director in terms of actions that would be taken to review the child's situation. We would question whether single separation was necessary.

When we reviewed the records we discovered that no child had been left in single separation for that extended period while we conducted an inspection in Oberstown this time. We would have given the system's issue, in terms of feedback, to the campus director and his team after the inspection.

There is detail in the inspection report. We would have identified that as a deficit for the campus to come up with an action as to how a system in future would ensure that restrictive practices were for the least length of time.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The child might not be there or that practice might not have been going on while the witness was there but were the staff members still there? Did Ms Boyle engage with them?

Ms Eva Boyle:

We meet with staff-----

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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No, but the staff in relation to that particular file where that child had nine days of single separation. Did the witness meet with those staff members, the staff member who initiated the single separation, the line manager who signed off on it and the team who were involved?

Ms Eva Boyle:

There would have been 15 members of staff. We would have met different members of the staff but I do not-----

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am looking in for particular the line managers.

Ms Eva Boyle:

-----the specifics. We would have met the unit manager of some of it but I do not have that information with me.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I can appreciate that, but can the Ms Boyle see where I am coming from with my questioning?

Ms Eva Boyle:

I do, I acknowledge that.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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At the end of the day, there has to be accountability. The accountability has to go back to the line manager who signed off for putting a child into single separation for nine days. I would like to think as the monitoring body going out that the witnesses would be getting all the answers as to why, when and how it came about. What resources and measures were put in place to prevent it happening even into half of that day, the rest of that day, not to mind going all the way to day eight before we managed to get fresh air? Where are the witnesses going to go from here? Do they plan to have an unannounced visit in the next three months? Where does a red line go off here that this could be a continual practice? Ms Boyle is saying that there was a good atmosphere so I am taking it that things are moving on. To reassure the general public that this practice is becoming a forgotten practice in Oberstown unannounced visits need to start happening, do they not?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

Deputy Rabbitte is correct. The provision of the service and the accountability for that service rests with the management of Oberstown. Regarding the data that we reviewed that brought up this case, the action plan delivered from Oberstown would be to show adherence to the policy, monitoring of the policy, training staff in the policy and in its application. When we conduct our unannounced inspection, or announced because we can do either, it will be reviewing the data to show what has been happening. If there is a child in that position when we are there we will review the case itself. However, it is looking at the data and ensuring that there is not a repeat of what we published as a major non-compliance in the context of single separation.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Thank you Deputy Rabbitte. I have a few questions myself. I visited Oberstown shortly after I was appointed Chairman of the committee. I should have done so long before because it is in my constituency. Having visited the facility for quite a number of hours there were a number of observations that I made in line with the witnesses' report. I visited before I read the report. I found it alarming that the State would invest such significant sums of money in a facility without adhering to the basic principles in other detention facilities albeit I accept entirely that we are talking about juveniles. However, the basic principles are the same.

One was fire safety. That was very clear and made very obvious to me when visiting. At the back of the building one passes a fire door with a notice that it is blocked closed. I am not sure 4 x 4 would justify how large this piece of wood was jamming it closed because the security on the door was compromised. Other basic principles like door sizes, frame sizes being all completely different, and locking systems being similar in my observation to domestic residences. I know from that visit that Oberstown management were pleased that they had co-operation from the Irish Prison Service in the provision of their locks. However, the fact that the State had expended so much money on a facility, and multiple elements within the same facility, without doing the basic research to me was not just shocking. I have no idea what they were thinking. I found that appalling not just that the witnesses had to go out and highlight the obvious.

The staff were put in a position whereby they could not guarantee the integrity of the building in which certain juveniles were being detained and-or assessed. That was an observation I wanted to get off my chest since I visited the facility some months ago.

My main question concerns the positives the witnesses have highlighted in the report in term of the response from staff and management in Oberstown. It is very clear, having visited the centre and seen, for example, the profiling research which has been completed or is underway, that the basic responses which are being implemented on foot of the report are positive.

Unfortunately, there are number of themes which I am aware the witnesses have been assessing for many years. Ms Boyle referred to it being a learning curve, but elements have been left unaddressed.

I refer to health, which is listed as an area of major non-compliance. I do not have a specific question because the report clearly highlights some of the issues. Can the witnesses tell me the most alarming elements and responses to them from Oberstown management in terms of the resolution to the highlighted sections?

Ms Eva Boyle:

We issued an immediate action plan in respect of health while we were physically present for an inspection. That centred on a child who required a particular medication for an allergy, which staff had not been trained to administer. In fairness, immediate action was taken and staff were trained. A nurse gave a briefing to staff and staff on shift were trained, who then trained other staff to ensure the intervention would be put in place if required.

The second immediate action concerned the safe storage of medication. We found keys left in a medication cabinet and there was concern that a child or young person could gain access to medication. We were satisfied with the response, which ensured that keys were locked away and held securely. The problem was dealt with on the day.

In respect of other areas of concern in terms of health, we were concerned that some children experienced a delay in receiving medical attention and gave two examples in the report. One child was delayed in getting an X-ray for security reasons. That was of concern to us.

The campus management team have put in place a process whereby if there is a concern about a child requiring medical attention, such as security concerns, the matter goes to the level of chief operations officer who needs to look at arrangements which can be put in place in order for a child to access and receive appropriate medical attention.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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In terms of the reaction time and the number of individuals on the date of the inspection, who had knowledge of the matter to which Ms Boyle referred, did the report highlight that no members of staff were trained or were there only medical personnel on site?

Eva Boyle:

The reality is that nursing staff are on site. However, those staff were not available within the unit on a 24-hour basis. It was important that social care and residential care staff had the knowledge to administer that medication.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I refer to out-of-hours personnel where the medical team is present. Doctors are on call and so on.

Ms Eva Boyle:

A doctor on call is available to the campus.

The staff team would have brought children to different private medical facilities and public hospitals outside of hours when required. It has also tried to recruit a fourth nurse but has been unsuccessful in doing so. It has a social care worker who it is training in medication management. That is to ensure consistency and to be able to provide assistance around the-----

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Does that broadly comply with the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, standard?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Yes.

Ms Mary Dunnion:

That is very much an established way of dealing with issues like that in social care services, because nurses are not always available.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I see. Does HIQA have any experience in similar circumstances within the Irish Prison Service, for instance, or is that an area-----

Ms Mary Dunnion:

No, we have no remit there.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Did you address the chain of custody not of individuals but of medicines?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Yes.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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This might seem somewhat trivial but when I saw the following I thought it was very peculiar and perhaps I am misreading it. Under standard 9, premises, safety and security, reference is made to the accumulation of lint in dryers. I am aware of the individual blocks because I have visited nearly all of them. I presume that is a fire risk.

Ms Eva Boyle:

That was a fire risk. It has put in a process where it reviews it regularly.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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It seems such a non-existent-----

Ms Eva Boyle:

A household issue.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I remember reading it and thinking it was very peculiar thing to have in a HIQA report, but of course I recognise its relevance to fire safety. In regard to the overall process of implementation of the recommendations within the report, the witnesses mentioned that there will be areas where the facility will be compliant. Since this report was written and any follow-ups completed, are there any particular areas to which the witnesses believe more attention should be given?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Some of the actions are due to be completed in the third and fourth quarters of 2017, so they have until the end of year to complete them. We received an updated action plan at the end of October, and we sought some clarification on particular issues in November. As we have mentioned, the issue of the fire door will continue into next year. Obviously, our preference would be for that to be completed within the calendar year, but we have been given reasons that was not possible. However, it is making progress.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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My last observation concerns the school in the facility. Did the witnesses visit and inspect the school?

Ms Eva Boyle:

Our colleagues in the Department of Education and Skills inspect the school. We look at children's access to education and their achievement within the context of their care planning. That is the extent to which we inspect the school.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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HIQA does not have a role in inspecting the school in the same way it inspects the various physical aspects of the bricks-and-mortar facility.

Ms Eva Boyle:

No. We speak to the school principal, and we certainly look at education within the context of young people's care planning. Children speak very highly of the school, as do their parents. It is a very positive experience for young people. However, we do not inspect it from an educational point of view.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Forgive me, I might have misled you. I was not considering the educational standards. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. My query was to do with the physical infrastructure within the school.

Ms Eva Boyle:

No, we would not-----

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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That does not concern HIQA. To the witnesses' knowledge, does the Department of Education and Skills implement the same level and standards of inspection that HIQA does, given that the school is in a detention facility?

Ms Eva Boyle:

It has a different set of standards. I cannot really speak for it.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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That is fine. Many of these young people are within the school's four walls under different circumstances, but similar issues may arise because of different inspection standards. I do not refer to the educational standards, I might add. That is perhaps a matter for me to raise with the Minister for Education and Skills.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding best practice, what are the witnesses' views on how staff are provided with counselling? Does HIQA have any role in addressing that area?

If staff are well looked after and happy and there is a process in place, when there are difficulties, that will lead to better outcomes overall.

Ms Eva Boyle:

We looked at a number of issues, the first of which was supervision. There is a supervision policy within the Oberstown centre. Supervision is a two-way process. It is about the manager ensuring the worker is doing his or her work, but it is also about having an opportunity for that staff member to have a one-to-one with his or her manager to discuss how he or she is progressing within his or her working environment and the direct work he or she is doing with children. There is a supportive as well as a supervisory element to the process, which was something we highlighted. We felt there was a need for regular supervision and clear records on the agreed outcomes as a result of the process. However, we also saw that a critical incident debriefing process had been introduced on the campus. That was a very positive move which allowed staff some time out after a difficult incident to review and talk about what had worked well and what had not and how they felt about it emotionally. That was a new initiative, which was positive. There are also other staff supports available through the human resources department.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I have one final question about Ms Dunnion's view of the Oberstown centre. Are there plans to go back and reinspect in the future? Is there a plan to monitor and to always seek to continuously improve the service in line with best practice?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

We will be scheduling our monitoring activity in 2018 and the Oberstown centre will be included as it always is every year.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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That is great.

Ms Mary Dunnion:

As we get nearer the time we will determine whether it will be announced or unannounced.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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That is understood. I thank Ms Dunnion.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Are there other closing remarks?

Ms Mary Dunnion:

I compliment the staff and reinforce that we see as critically important the role of monitoring in ensuring the quality of services. One should never miss an opportunity. In that context, an increase in resources for our children's team would certainly benefit the safety and welfare of children in the care of the State. We have obviously made applications in that regard.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I thank the delegates for appearing before the committee and dealing with the questions asked in such a comprehensive manner.