Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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It makes my work a little more difficult at the beginning. The first thing I want to say which I said earlier in relation to the Department is that I represented around ten claimants against the redress board in 2007 in my capacity as a solicitor. I just want to make Ms Higgins aware of that. It has no bearing on the matter, but I just want to communicate it in the interests of transparency.

Ms Higgins states in the second paragraph of her written submission that Caranua "is aimed at improving the quality of life of survivors of institutional abuse". To a certain extent, there are many reports that Caranua has actually disimproved quality of life, to some degree, in the sense that there is, of course, a financial aspect to what the organisation, not Ms Higgins per se, is trying to achieve.

In many ways Ms Higgins's opening statement does not add up. She says the staff have been carefully selected for their skills, yet in the last paragraph of her written submission she states, "In addition it is planned to enhance our work with other service providers so that they can be trauma informed and recognise and respond to the needs of survivors". I know from dealing with claimants that they have suffered trauma - a heinous, horrendous trauma. In a sense, many of them are suffering from post-traumatic stress. On the one hand, Ms Higgins is talking about the fact that she has taken on staff for their skills and, on the other, accepting that she needs to look at the issue in terms of having staff who are trained in relation to trauma. Will she explain that to me? She states in her written submission that "Caranua is engaged in the delivery of a care service to people who may be vulnerable". I suggest they are and continue to be vulnerable. If it is true - I am only putting it to Ms Higgins on behalf of the Committee of Public Accounts - that they have been made vulnerable in the manner they say they have been, they have been made even more vulnerable. I would like to hear Ms Higgins' comments on that issue also.