Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I echo Deputy O'Callaghan's points about the role played by the Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice. The reports have been very useful. The report last year on young people was excellent. I have tried to follow up on some of the recommendations in that report through parliamentary questions. What Mr. Carroll probably highlighted today is the glaring contradiction between what is being said in many of the reports that are being produced, even by Oireachtas committees, and the reality on the ground. The language is changing, the dialogue is more informed and we talk more about reform but even though there has been enlightened thinking at the top, there is a contradiction on the ground in the prisons. Is that related to the idea of training and meaningful activity and the point about beyond equivalence? The centre's most recent report made the point strongly that because of the disadvantage experienced by young people in particular, the types of facilities in prison do not need to be the same level as those in the community, they need to be beyond that to compensate and bring people up to speed. Perhaps we are looking at things the wrong way around. Security is always the starting point of prison management. It is all done against the backdrop of lower numbers, which has probably been an issue, and training and meaningful activity element is second. If we are to get to grips with this, we need to start with meaningful activity first and stand that on its head. That is one area I would like more detail on.

The question of women in prison is interesting. I think one other contributor pointed out that the number of women in prison, albeit proportionately smaller, is increasing more rapidly. Various reports such as the Corston report show the dislocating impact of putting women in prison. They show that if a woman is imprisoned, her children face the danger of homelessness. In terms of alternative models and houses in the community, is there anything in that and is there anything we could do to push them as an alternative?

My other point relates to the radical suggestion that we pick a number and cap it at that. I like that idea because unless there is something there, the Judiciary will keep sentencing people beyond the capacity that is there. Was this type of approach used in other jurisdictions that, in essence, almost halved the prison population such as the Scandinavian countries? Is there a precedent somewhere?

We would have liked the Bill I brought forward to be more radical but the committee wanted to extend it to the 19 hours. The Minister has even objected to that and has said that the committee is going beyond its remit. Again, is there any international experience on that?

I do not know whether the centre has the wherewithal to address mental health and the crisis involving acutely psychotic prisoners but these issues are reaching a critical point not just for inmates but for staff. The Central Mental Hospital says some people are too high-risk so it will not take them. However, these people are not getting treatment in prison. There is a waiting list of over acutely psychotic 20 people who are queuing for weeks and months and who need to be managed by the prison service. I do not know if the centre has looked at any precedents or models in other areas that might address that.