Mr. Eoin Carroll:

I probably should have taken notes from the outset. The Deputy should point out if I have missed something. I could not agree more with the points the Deputy made regarding mental health. We were involved with the group in 2007 and tried to essentially reform the accommodation in the Central Mental Hospital. We were standing behind a group of family members who did not want the Central Mental Hospital to be co-located on a prison site. Other than that, it is not something we have looked into.

In respect of prison numbers, it is a leap to say that we will just have a cap. A way to get around it that sounds a bit more sane is for each institution to have a fixed number that would indicate when it was full. In fairness, the now deceased Inspector of Prisons, Judge Michael Reilly, tried to introduce institutional numbers. Giving institutions numbers is certainly the starting point. The Inspector of Prisons has figures for each of the prisons, as does the Irish Prison Service. The Irish Prison Service is working towards the Inspector of Prisons' capped numbers. Worryingly, an article in the Irish Examinerthis week referred to somebody having to sleep on a mattress. If there was a rule that the prison had to shut its doors when it was full, alternatives would have to be provided but such an arrangement does not currently exist.

In respect of the provision of community facilities for women either as an alternative to prison or post release, our reports makes reference to two projects in the US. We forget that while nearly two million people are in prison in the US on any given day, I think it is about 700 per 100,000 of the population, one sees glimpses of innovation in terms of justice initiatives. There are projects out there.

I might have missed the Deputy's initial point about out of cell time. In respect of the regime that operates in the young adult facility in Germany, inmates spend approximately 14 hours out of cell. All of us here try to spend eight hours in bed but the figure might be seven. We may think we would like to spend 12 hours in our bedroom the odd time. Currently, people in prison spend 16 or 17 hours in their cells. Solitary confinement is a serious issue. There are interpretation issues around solitary confinement but it has been clearly stated that it does not matter if somebody is placed in solitary confinement if it is a request or punishment. It is still considered solitary confinement and is inappropriate if it is used consecutively for longer than 15 days. They are minimum standards so we should not be working towards them. We should be working towards nobody being in solitary confinement. We would argue that the characteristics of young adult mean that solitary confinement should not be allowed. The UN minimum standards for juveniles say that solitary confinement should not be used for juveniles. Of course, it allows the State to determine what a juvenile is and in Ireland, a juvenile is someone aged up to 18.