Mr. Larry Broderick:

I will look at both questions. The Chairman said the forum is a good idea. If the industry is invited to attend, I would be amazed if it chose not to participate, particularly in light of the political circumstances we are faced with. The question of whether it would participate fully and seek to embrace what we all want to achieve is a separate one. I genuinely believe there is an opportunity for such a request to be made to the industry. I think it will participate. That is the first point.

The challenge for all of us is to get the banks, particularly the State-owned banks, to recognise that the taxpayer is in control and should have some influence. Nobody is saying the banks should not remain profitable and viable. We are proposing to change the model so it meets everybody's needs. If a branch with one teller and four machines on the side of the wall has a queue going out the door, what else will customers do other then migrate to one of the machines? Stressed and pressurised customers who are doing their best to make their lodgments will not choose to wait half an hour in the midst of this madness. The banks are probably correct when they say there has been a migration to digital banking. We have to recognise that banking is changing all around us. There are different models that can address customer needs. One of those models can involve banks being open in local communities and being available to senior citizens. Such a model that can involve elements of the digital approach. There can be a combination of both approaches. Our paper refers to examples across Europe that show how this can be done. Ireland is not that different. There is no doubt that there has been some migration. The banks use terms like "5% footprint" because they are driving the footprint away. That is not addressing the needs of customers. Our experience has been that if customers are asked what they want, they will say they want somebody to do business with. It is easier to do business with somebody locally than to go through options Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the telephone. This has to be taken to one side in all of these developments. That is why we are suggesting alternatives to branch closures, for example. How are those alternatives addressed? What is the best way to meet customer needs? We need to look at alternatives to politicians, trade union personnel and local activists going into banks in Dublin or Belfast and saying "please do not close this branch". As the committee will have heard in some of the representations that have been made to it, the strategic approach that is needed should involve looking at different models rather than necessarily going down the route of further closures. Such an approach will open a welcome debate.