John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I note that Deputy Eugene Murphy is substituting for Deputy Michael McGrath. I remind members and those in attendance to, please, turn off their mobile phones as they interfere with the quality of the sound transmission of the proceedings.

We are considering the Revised Estimate for 2017 for the Office of Public Works, OPW, Vote 13. The Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Seán Canney, is present. On 15 December 2016 the Dáil ordered that the Revised Estimate for the OPW of €365 million be referred to the select committee for consideration. I welcome the Minister of State and ask him to make his opening statement.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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As Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform with special responsibility for the Office of Public Works and flood relief, I am pleased to set out some of the priority programmes of work to be funded from the 2017 Revised Estimate for the Office of Public Works. The OPW is responsible for a wide variety of functions with an overall budget of €394 million in 2017. The principal areas of responsibility reflect two priority areas of the Government programme - flood risk management and estate management, including the heritage estate.

As members know, the key objectives of flood risk management is to reduce the risk of river and coastal flooding to homes and businesses and to provide flood risk information to be considered for effective planning in Ireland. In the assessment of flood risk the OPW must consider the potential impact of climate change to ensure appropriate plans to mitigate the risk are considered. Recognising the difficulties flooding has caused for individuals and businesses in Ireland in recent years, I am working actively to address the issues with a range of measures.

In relation to capital works, these complex engineering projects continue to present many challenges through the planning stage, the procurement process and the construction phase.

While it is widely acknowledged that there are long lead-in times for the delivery of flood relief projects, I am pleased to report that construction works commenced on seven major flood schemes in 2016, which means there are currently 11 schemes at construction stage. A further seven flood schemes are programmed to commence construction in 2017.

The projects programmed to commence this year include Athlone, Bellurgan, Blackpool, Clonakilty, Ennis south and Templemore and the first phase of the largest flood relief scheme ever to be undertaken in the State should commence in Cork city before the end of the year. I am aware that the people of Cork city have a particular interest in the scheme on the River Lee and to fully capture their observations, the public consultation has been extended to 16 March.It is expected that five of the projects currently under construction will be substantially completed in 2017 thereby bringing flood protection to an additional 2,000 properties. A further 20 projects are at various stages of planning and design stage and when completed will provide protection to several hundred properties currently at risk of flooding. Running in tandem with these major schemes, 83 localised flood relief projects were approved under the minor works scheme in 2016, which will be undertaken directly by the local authorities in the coming year.

In terms of output measures, it is worth noting that the cumulative number of properties to benefit from major flood relief works completed to date is over 7,700, with an additional 6,150 properties benefitting from local authority projects. The cumulative value of this benefit to properties, or loss avoided in economic terms, is estimated to be in the region of €1.5 billion.

The OPW’s strategic, evidence-based approach to flood risk management has been reinforced with the completion of the catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, programme. The CFRAM programme is the largest flood risk management planning programme ever undertaken in the State and has completed detailed surveys and numerical models for 300 areas at risk of flooding involving 6,700 km of watercourse and 9,400 sq. km of flood plain. The output from the ongoing CFRAM programme is a comprehensive suite of maps for the areas at risk around the country and the consultation process with local communities regarding these maps is nearing completion. I hope to submit the final plans for approval to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform in the near future.

In acknowledging that structural measures may not provide the appropriate solutions in many areas, the interdepartmental flood policy co-ordination group is developing a range of policy initiatives to underpin the overall investment in managing national flood risk. The group, of which the OPW is a member, is considering a number of prevention and mitigation measures for providing flood relief which may include schemes for individual property protection and voluntary home and farmyard relocation.

Following the severe flooding events in the winter of 2015 and 2016, I am pleased to report that a memorandum will go to Government for a voluntary home relocation scheme in the coming weeks. This scheme will apply where the properties remain exposed to a high risk of flooding and the benefit of major or minor flood relief schemes will not be felt. Initial funding has been ring-fenced this year for the scheme to be administered by my office.

I am aware that some members of this committee have a particular interest in ensuring that home and business owners can insure their properties against flood damage. The most recent meeting with Insurance Ireland was held on 8 December 2016 and a further meeting has taken place since to explore the legal, technical and administrative arrangements that may allow for the further sharing of data on flood insurance cover for those 300 areas where the OPW has mapped the flood risk through the CFRAM programme. The OPW is providing Insurance Ireland with detailed background and technical information on all completed flood relief schemes, including maps showing the extent of the area protected in the anticipation that this will allow Insurance Ireland members to offer flood insurance cover. A further meeting with Insurance Ireland is scheduled for 8 March, which I will attend.

With regard to the matter of flood forecasting, I am pleased to inform members that Met Éireann is in the process of setting up a flood forecasting centre, which will be supported by additional resources within my office, to enhance the early flood warning to those at risk of flooding.

On the Shannon catchment, the Shannon flood risk State agency co-ordination working group is looking at ways to enhance ongoing co-operation of all State agencies involved with the River Shannon. A comprehensive programme of works is being developed as part of the co-ordinated approach by all State agencies involved in addressing flood risk in that catchment area, and the group is due to meet again on 21 March.

In terms of drainage maintenance, the OPW continues to maintain all arterial drainage schemes completed under the Arterial Drainage Act 1945. This investment provides ongoing protection to 650,000 acres of agricultural land, infrastructure and properties through the maintenance of 11,500 km of river channel including 730 km of embankments at an annual cost of €15 million. Separately, local authorities maintain 4,600 km of river channel providing further localised flood protection.

The other main programme of investment for my office is estate management, which encompasses the management, maintenance and development of the State’s property portfolio. In recent years, with a move towards better space management, the Office of Public Works has rationalised office accommodation, surrendering over 300 leases in recent years. However, the growing demand for space to deliver Government services will require that additional leases are taken on in 2017 and the annual Estimate will increase this year.

The OPW provides a shared service for the maintenance of accommodation occupied by Departments and manages construction projects on their behalf. Some examples of these construction projects or programmes to be initiated or delivered in 2017 includethe Garda building programme, the fit out of office accommodation at Bloom House, the refurbishment of the Seanad Chamber at Leinster House, the children’s science centre, roof works at the National Gallery and a programme of essential health and safety works under the mechanical and electrical programme.

It is worth noting that the OPW also has a key role to play in the delivery of services that are not directly funded by the OPW Vote. For example, the OPW manages a comprehensive Garda major building programme and in 2015, the Government launched a capital investment plan for An Garda Síochána for the period from 2016 to 2021, which involves the major refurbishment of stations and facilities from both the OPW and the Garda Votes. Three new divisional-regional Garda headquarters at Kevin Street, Dublin, Wexford and Galway are currently on site and will be delivered during 2017.

In the heritage area, I am pleased to report that the total number of recorded visitors to OPW sites at the end of December 2016 was in the region of 5.5 million. This is an increase of some 12.8% over the 2015 attendance and reflects the increasing popularity of our heritage product nationally and internationally. This is a key driver in terms of the economic benefit being generated for the tourism sector and receipts in this area have increased year on year to over €11 million in 2016.

The heritage sites managed by the OPW are particularly prized by foreign visitors, a demographic targeted by Fáilte Ireland in its tourism marketing. Understanding the needs of these visitors and planning for a targeted investment campaign to improve the sites will be a key part of the ongoing tourism investment programme which will be developed in parallel with Fáilte Ireland branding propositions such as the Wild Atlantic Way, Ireland's Ancient East, Dublin - A Breath of Fresh Air, and a future proposition yet to emerge around the lakelands area.

Guided visitor services will continue to be provided by my office at 70 heritage sites nationwide in 2017 on either a seasonal or full-time basis. One such visitor attraction that is central to the OPW tourist offering and which has featured prominently in the 2016 commemorations is Kilmainham Gaol. Work was completed in early 2016 on the new visitor centre, which was one of the Government’s signature 1916 commemoration projects. The building was opened by An tUachtarán Michael D. Higgins at Easter and now serves as the main entry point for visitors to the gaol. The OPW heritage service will continue to develop this site as one of the country's premier tourist attractions and in the period ahead, there will be a focus on meeting a strong demand for visitors and developing further visitor offerings at the site.

A strategic partnership has been developed between Fáilte Ireland, the Department of Arts, Heritage, Rural, Regional and Gaeltacht Affairs and the OPW regarding the tourism investment programme. This promises to be a significant and beneficial relationship, which will bring a greater tourism focus on and investment in relevant projects within the heritage estate managed by the OPW. The objective of the partnership is to identify projects at heritage sites that will be suitable for investment and to develop them as tourism destinations. This year, 2017, will focus on improving existing visitor offerings at places like the Rock of Cashel, Dún Aonghasa, the Céide Fields and Brú na Bóinne and creating new visitor offerings at sites like Carlingford Castle, Knowth and Altamont.

Additionally in this period, the OPW will also seek to engage positively with the Creative Ireland initiative, which is currently being developed and seeks to build on the success of the Ireland 2016 project in the area of the creative arts in particular.

I realise that I have referenced only a small part of the work of the OPW, which has a vast array of responsibilities. If the committee has any questions on the office's Estimates requirements for 2017, I will be happy to take them.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I omitted to mention at the beginning that this is the first time for Mr. Maurice Buckley to appear before this committee in his new role as Chairman. He is very welcome. I had the experience of working with him in the past with the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI. I look forward to Mr. Buckley bringing that professionalism and dedication to the OPW and I wish him well.

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

Thank you.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Sherlock.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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If I may, I will divide my questioning between estate management and flooding. I will start with estate management. I also join with the Chairman in welcoming the new Chairman of the OPW. I too worked in a previous guise with him through the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. I am delighted to see him appointed to this role.

It may not be possible for the Minister of State to answer my questions directly at this session. If he cannot, I would be grateful if somebody would revert to me. I want to raise sites like Barryscourt Castle, County Cork, Annes Grove Gardens in Castletownroche, County Cork, and Doneraile Court. They are three key reference sites that come under the ambit of the OPW's sphere of responsibility. I know that works are ongoing in Barryscourt Castle, for instance. The people who use these facilities are anxious to ensure there is continuing maintenance and development. I note the Minister of State's remarks with regard to Ireland's Ancient East and the reference to developing the heritage element of the OPW offerings. I ask the Minister to revert to me with regard to what the plans are for those three particular sites. The Annes Grove Gardens site, in particular, is a recent acquisition and a very valuable one in terms of its history and place in north Cork. I ask the Minister of State to ensure that the resources are deployed in such a way as to ensure its future development.

I note that there has been a 12.8% increase in revenue streams. I ask the Minister of State to delve further into how that 12.8% is arrived at in terms of attendance figures across the sites throughout the country. It is a cumulative increase. People like me, who represent the people of north and east Cork, would like to see how that translates to sites like Doneraile Court, Annes Grove Gardens and Barryscourt Castle, which is obviously closed at the moment. I would be very grateful if we could get some solid information from the Minister of State on the figures as they relate to those three reference sites. My next question is about the children's science centre. What is the actual state of progress on that? That is the first half of my intervention.

The second half of my intervention relates to Cork in particular and the proposed flood works. I note the Minister of State said that the deadline for submissions has moved out to a date in March. There have been some concerns raised, of which the Minister will be aware, regarding the aesthetics that this project will bring and how that will impact on the visual amenity that people enjoy on the River Lee. Historically, on schemes like the Munster Blackwater in Fermoy as well as in Mallow, similar concerns were raised by people living within those regions. I can understand the concerns of the people of Cork city. I ask the Minister of State to be mindful of those concerns. I understand a process is under way. I ask the Minister of State to keep in mind the aesthetic value of the River Lee and to be mindful of the need to ensure the visual amenity that is there. There are other concerns that will come into the public forum as time goes on.

The Minister of State mentioned small schemes. There is still a situation arising from Storm Frank in 2015 where works are ongoing on the N25 east of Castlemartyr. I travelled on that road the other day and work has been carried out opposite a particular property. I do not want to name the person in question but he and his family have been very much affected by Storm Frank. There are turloughs present in the area. There has been no communication between the OPW and this person. To be fair to the person in question, aesthetically, opposite his house looks a bit like a bomb site at the moment. I do not want to inflame the situation in any way. However, if the OPW or its agents could communicate more with the people affected in that particular region, I believe it would be a good day's work.

I also want to ask about the voluntary home relocation scheme. I would like to know what criteria apply. Do they include a person moving to an elevated site on their own property and building from scratch? Is that one of the areas that the Minister of State is examining? I would like to hear more about the modalities of the scheme, maybe not today, but perhaps at some future session. In fairness to the Minister of State with regard to his engagement on the insurance issue, he has been quite proactive to my mind. I had a meeting with the Minister of State prior to the Christmas recess. We are perhaps still sceptical about whether Insurance Ireland will actually take on board the CFRAM process and, having done that, whether it will reflect in lower costs in the premiums of people living in areas affected by CFRAM. That remains to be seen and I would like to hear the view of the Minister of State.

Many people have carried out works in smaller areas, such as Castlemartyr in County Cork, which was badly affected, and places like Midleton. Some of those people had insurance, but others did not and had to pay out quite an amount of money to repair damaged property. They are looking for an answer to the question of whether Insurance Ireland will realistically engage and whether a real protocol will be put in place to ensure that, once the OPW has future-proofed a particular area that is within a certain flood plain, the cost of insurance will be reduced for people in the future. I acknowledge it is an ongoing process and I appreciate the Minister of State's engagement on it. Those are my opening remarks.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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With regard to the estate management of Barryscourt Castle, the site is closed to the public at the moment as the OPW is addressing the dampness issues and is completely rewiring. It will probably remain closed until at least 2018 but it is being developed. With regard to the Annes Grove site, it was donated to the State in 2015. The OPW has commenced a programme of works to make the garden safe and to facilitate initial public access to sections of the garden in spring of this year. At present, it is envisaged that pre-booked guided tours will be available for the month of May only. As development works will be ongoing throughout the year, it is necessary from a health and safety point of view that the May tours be limited to small sizes and accompanied by a member of staff. The site will be shown in this initial trial period as a work in progress site, but at least it is being opened up to the public and progress is being made on it. The Deputy mentioned one other site and we will come back to him on that one.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Doneraile Court. It is a hardy perennial in my book. I want to know what are the numbers as it is a site that I want to see developing.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Absolutely. The Deputy mentioned the tender for the children's science centre. It will go out to tender by the end of this year.

Before I leave that point, I concur with the Deputy's idea that we need to be spreading out the numbers right throughout the area. I have had the privilege of travelling to wonderful places around Ireland, only last week on a beautiful morning I visited venues during snowdrop week in Carlow. This is an event that one will find no place else and it is an absolutely priceless gem. We need to market it. We are working with Bord Fáilte on marketing it. This will be a help.

In regard to flooding and Cork city, I had the nice task of going to Cork twice. I have announced schemes for Cork four times, so Cork is doing. There have been some concerns about the treatment of the quays in the city scheme. On the basis that there was a great deal of interest in it, we have extended the consultation period. The Deputy can take that as a signal that the process is being considered. It is important to remember that this is the single biggest project, worth €140 million, that will be done in Ireland. We hope to have work on site by the end of the year. At the end of the day, the important thing is that we will work with the local people to find solutions to their concerns. That is why we have engaged in consultation but I am putting the pressure on the officials and the design team to drive on with the project because we need to build the defences because of the devastation in the past.

Deputy Sherlock mentioned the impact of Storm Frank on the N25. Work is in progress. The first port of call for somebody with an issue on that is the local authority. If it an issue for the OPW, it will come back to the OPW, but I think the contracting authority is the local authority.

On the issue of the voluntary home relocation scheme, I hope to bring that proposal with the relevant criteria to Cabinet for approval. I do not have the full detail but the Deputy mentioned the idea of somebody rebuilding a house on an elevated site. That can be considered provided that planning permission can be obtained for it and that it meets all the planning criteria and that it is not in a flood risk area. It will have to be through the planning process.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Minister is considering the idea that somebody could build on their own land, subject to planning, if it is at a higher level.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Absolutely, it is relocation. We are also considering farmyard relocation. That will obviously have to be on the land. There is nothing barring that option from being considered but the full criteria is being finalised and we are bringing it to Cabinet for approval in the next two weeks.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What is the position on Insurance Ireland?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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It is proving difficult to bring this issue to a conclusion. Since I have come into office we have instigated quarterly meetings with Insurance Ireland. I acknowledge that Deputy Sherlock came to me with information and we are trying to feed it to Insurance Ireland. There are major problems in two areas, the first of which arises in areas where we installed demountable flood defences that are to the highest international standards but the insurance companies are not prepared to insure them. That is a difficulty. We have answered all the insurance companies' questions in terms of the protocol for the erection, maintenance and dismantling of the flood barriers and at our next meeting we will have further discussions on them.

The second area of concern is that people are not able to get insurance because the maps produced by CFRAM are creating difficulties where they are indicative and they should not be used for commercial purposes. We continue to liaise with Insurance Ireland to try to build on that. We are working on that issue.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I have a final question on flood insurance and the Minister of State's engagement with Insurance Ireland. The demountable walls meet best international practice.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Agreed.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Munster Blackwater scheme, at Fermoy in particular, was carried out by an internationally recognised consulting engineering firm, one of the best in the business globally. I cannot tally why that would not be accepted by Insurance Ireland or any insurance provider, if it is best international practice and these insurance houses are international insurance houses. It seems to me that the companies are refusing point blank to insure. That seems to be closer to the truth. The ultimate question for people who live in areas where work has been carried out and demountable walls are in place is whether there is a power to compel the companies to provide insurance.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I think we have had that discussion with them. I accept the Deputy's point in respect of the scheme to which he refers and we have discussed it in detail. I am not happy with it and will work to try to get a resolution to the situation.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus a chomhghleacaithe. Tá cúpla ceist agam anseo.

We have figures for the schemes that will progress and the schemes that are targeted. As anybody who has been following this for a couple of years, the same schemes appear to be on the same lists year after year. I was looking at the list from 2015, which in fairness was before the Minister of State took office, there was a target to commence seven major flood relief schemes, but none was commenced in 2015. The target for 2016 was to commence five schemes and seven were commenced. Is it fair to say that the seven schemes that were commenced in 2016 were the seven schemes that were to be commenced in 2015 and were not delivered? I refer to the south Ennis scheme. When Deputy Simon Harris was the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW, he told the Dáil the scheme would commence in 2015. He later informed the House that he anticipated that construction would commence in 2016 and would take 18 months to complete. Now Deputy Canney is informing us today that it will commence in 2017. Is my description of the south Ennis scheme correct?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Yes.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Why should we be more convinced by the Minister of State's statement today than by the inaccurate statements of the then Minister of State with responsibility for OPW, Deputy Simon Harris, in 2015 or 2016? We know the scheme has not commenced and has not yet commenced at this point in time. The same schemes have been on the list of years. The people of Clare are sick to the teeth of it. Am I to believe this scheme will commence quite soon, that is, will it be within a number of weeks? Is there a chance that Deputy Canney will be before this committee again and the south Ennis scheme will be one of the schemes to commence in 2018?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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In fairness, the Deputy's point is one of the frustrations I have had myself. There are competing problems in respect of funding for flood relief schemes.

From my background in construction, I can understand some of them because the issues relate to engineering and water and it is very hard to define the timescale.

I have a note that the contractor for the Ennis works is to be appointed in the first quarter of 2017. Construction will probably start in the second or third quarter of 2017. What I have been doing since I took up the position in the OPW is looking at how long it takes to plan a project, as the Deputy has, and the average time it has taken to bring a project from inception through to the construction stage, that is, to the day that the machinery goes on the ground, has been seven years. That is the way it has worked. What we are doing is looking at ways of trying to shorten that timeframe. With the work that has been done on CFRAM to date, it will knock two years off the length of the process for the projects that have been picked. We have changed some of the planning procedures to try to expedite the whole process and to shorten it.

We have also had some cases in which we ran into engineering problems, environmental or other issues which delayed some projects. My commitment is to reduce the timeframe from conception to construction. Construction is the easiest part.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister of State guaranteeing thie committee and, more importantly, the people in the area in question that the south Ennis scheme will begin construction in 2017?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I have just told the Deputy what is going to happen there.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Is that a guarantee?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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It is a guarantee from me.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Were all schemes scheduled to be completed in 2016 actually completed? We are dealing with Estimates based on the type of work anticipated. Accordingly, moneys are allocated by the House for the type of work involved. Were all schemes due to be completed in 2016 completed? These schemes would have been undertaken on the Minister of State's watch and he would have told the committee they would be completed.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The 2017 programme sets out where each contract stands and the expected completion dates. For instance, the Dunkellin river relief scheme in County Galway has been talked about since 1940. Construction work started on it this year. It will take three seasons to get the work done because there is a certain amount that can only be done at different times. The list of schemes sets out each one at construction phase at the start of the year. They are on target to be completed as per the schedule, but that is the easiest part. It is in getting machines on the ground that there are delays.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I understand that and appreciate the difficulties. I acknowledge that some of my questions are on projects initiated prior to the Minister of State's time in the Department. There are officials who have been there a lot longer than he has. This is not something new. A private company would be able to pinpoint the problems. It would not have stated seven schemes would start in 2015 but none of them actually started. It would have been out of business and liquidated by the end of the year. Can one imagine a large construction company stating it will start seven major projects and none of them starting? Last year, when the Minister of State attended the committee, he identified the number of schemes scheduled to be completed in 2016. Have they been completed?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I would say so, but I can check for the Deputy.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Last year, even though he was new in the position, I pointed out that the Minister of State had not met Insurance Ireland. There is a major issue with insurance companies not insuring residents where flood relief works have been carried out. The Minister of State has mentioned that the next meeting with Insurance Ireland is due to be held on 8 March and that he will attend. Will he inform the committee of the other meetings he has attended with Insurance Ireland since taking up office?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I do not know how many I have attended. We set up meetings on a quarterly basis with the working group. My officials and those of Insurance Ireland meet on a quarterly basis and work in between times on queries on demountable flood barriers.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State has referred to the meeting due to be held on 8 March which he will attend. He also referred to a meeting held on 8 December but did not say whether he attended it.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I did not attend that meeting.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We can assume the previous meeting was held three months prior to the meeting in December, sometime around September. Did the Minister of State attend that meeting?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I do not know, but I will check.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Has the Minister of State attended any of the quarterly meetings?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I have attended two or maybe three since I attended the first one.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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On the meetings he has attended or on which his officials have reported back, has the Minister of State received assurances from the insurance industry that the issue where it is failing to insure residents in areas where flood relief works have been carried out will be resolved?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The insurance industry is reinsuring properties in areas where permanent flood defence works and major flood relief schemes have been carried out and we have certified that they are complete. There are difficulties in areas such as Fermoy, to which the Deputy referred, where there are demountable flood barriers. Insurance Ireland looked for the protocols for the operation of these demountable barriers. It had queries about who was responsible for putting them up, taking them down, maintenance, where they were stored, how often they were inspected and how often they were used in a dry run to make sure they were still operational. There were more than 100 questions to be answered and all of them have been. Insurance Ireland is now working through the answers. We will be meeting it in March to find out where we stand on the issue.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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When one is looking from the outside in, one thinks this issue should be easy to resolve, particularly if one is living in the areas where work has been carried out. The demountable flood barriers are in place and have been certified. However, for the people affected, there has been no real progress made in dealing with the issue of insurance. The Minister of State has been in position for nearly a year but he cannot inform the committee that he is closer to resolving the issue. We are at a stage where Insurance Ireland has asked a series of questions and answers have been provided. However, there has been no indication that the answers will suffice. If Insurance Ireland is satisfied with the answers, does it mean that insurance companies will start to insure properties in these areas? Is there any assurance the Minister of State can give to the public on his ongoing engagement with Insurance Ireland?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We are working with the memorandum of understanding. The Department of Finance regulates the insurance companies. We cannot force them to do anything. We just provide the information as we complete every project. We provide certification that they have been completed. We have also done that with the demountable flood barriers. Insurance Ireland has received further information on protocols and we are hoping it has gone through all of it. If there are queries, it can come back to us. I believe it has not yet come back with any. There is interaction between meetings.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Is there any expectation the meeting due to held on 8 March could help to resolve the issue?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I want to have to it resolved, but I will not make a statement that it will be on that date. However, we will work hard to try to have it resolved.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Last year I raised the issue of the Garda headquarters on Harcourt Street and referred to the concern at the time that 500 members of staff in the nerve centre of An Garda Síochána would have to relocate. Obviously, there were no premises in Dublin which could accommodate them. I understand the legal action taken by Hibernia REIT, the owner of the building, to look for vacant possession, has since been withdrawn. The Office of Public Works has entered into a six-year contract with Hibernia REIT, or what is now known as a vulture fund. It will pay €6 million per year for the building, on which there is a one-off arrears payment of €500,000. My 11-year old son could figure this one out. The total cost of a €6 million a year contract for six years comes to €36 million, plus arrears of €500,000. Hibernia REIT bought this office from the State for €70 million. It is a shocking waste of public moneys. The problem is that the Garda will be out on its ear in six years time. Will the Minister of State confirm that the Office of Public Works has entered into a new a six year lease at a cost which is 22% higher? Will he explain why a one-off arrears payment had to be made?

Will the Minister of State inform the committee what the OPW is doing to source alternative accommodation? As the Minister of State and I know, there is no alternative accommodation in Dublin which will suit the type of nerve centre required by the gardaí. Are we looking at a fresh build? What is happening with that? I understand it is before the Minister of State's time but we raised the issue with the former Minister of State and asked him to intervene with NAMA to buy the building. What has happened here is a complete waste of public money.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Is the Deputy finished?

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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For now.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The figures on what we are doing in Harcourt Street are there in the report. I think the number of gardaí is higher than what the Deputy said but it is a moot point. The Deputy is right that it is the most critical building in terms of the teams of people that are in it. We have a lease on the place for the next six years so we have a window of opportunity to provide a permanent base for all the gardaí that are required. We have identified a site on which we will build a new facility. The budget for the building of that facility is something like €80 million. Discussions are going on between the Office of Public Works, the gardaí and the Department of Justice and Equality to finalise the brief for the accommodation that will be required. That work is ongoing. There is a five-year window with a contingency of one year to allow for a new building to be built. When I looked at it, I said it was something we needed to do so we would not find ourselves in the same situation in five or six years time. This is the plan that will be put in place. We are working closely with the Department of Justice and Equality whose Vote the money will be coming from to build it.

The Harcourt Street building was bought by the vulture fund. I do not know how much it paid for it. I think it was bought in a bundle that cost €200 million. The Deputy mentioned a figure which I am not aware of.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Can I ask-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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What is the figure the Deputy mentioned?

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is reported it was bought for €70 million.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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That is what was reported but I have no evidence of what it was bought for. It was bought in a bundle.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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They bought all their properties. The gardaí are not using all of Harcourt Street site so there is an argument to be made that if the OPW was only purchasing that part of it, it could have gotten it for less than the reported €70 million. The €70 million figure is out there in the public domain and it has not been disputed. It would cost €80 million for a new build and if that figure does not increase, it is absolutely mind-boggling that €36.5 million will be paid in rent over the next six years in addition to the rent we already paid to the Hibernia REIT. This is a State building. How could the State allow the sale of the nerve centre of An Garda Síochána to a vulture fund? It is unbelievable. It is like selling Leinster House. It is madness.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Some people might agree to that.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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That is true but it does not make sense. We are laughing at it now but other people will pay for this, for example in health or coastal protection, because the money has to come from somewhere.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The Deputy is raising a concern about overall estate management and how we are dealing with leases coming up and being ahead of the game. The way we are managing estates is being dealt with in the report and there is a full list of all of the Government buildings. Going forward, we will be smarter in our approach to these kind of things.

I will not comment on the sale by NAMA because I was not there. The figure being reported is €70 million but who is it being reported by and is it factual?

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Minister of State confirm that 22% more rent is now being paid on the Harcourt Street building? The OPW is paying 22% more per year out of its budget.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Yes, that is the percentage increase.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is €6 million.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Yes.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Is the €6 million locked down over the six years?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Yes.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We are paying €6 million more over the next six years than we would have been paying if there had not been a rent increase. It is roughly about that. I will move on.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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What was the other question about the once-off payment?

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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A once-off arrears payment had to be made of €500,000.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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There was outstanding rent when the lease was coming to an end. There was a gap in it.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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As Minister of State in charge of the OPW's budget, does Deputy Canney believe it represents value for money that the State has had to pay an increase of 22% in rent on a property that was owned by the State just a number of years ago and that the OPW will pay out €36 million over the next six years and is guaranteed to be evicted at the end of the contract?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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In the context of the rent demand in Dublin at the moment, to have a capped rent of €6 million over the next six years will prove to be of cost benefit.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State is dealing with the consequences of this now. From his understanding from looking at the files within the Department, was there any suggestion at any time by the OPW that it should purchase this property from NAMA? Perhaps the Minister of State's officials can help him. We all know about the social clause of the NAMA legislation, which is that it should offer it to the State first. Did the OPW ever suggest that this property be purchased from NAMA?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I can check that out for the Deputy in the files and come back to him.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I will finish on a very important local issue of the Grianán Ailigh site in Donegal. There are numerous local issues. For example, we are not happy that the OPW is not supporting the funding of the Maghery coastal erosion works. There is still an outstanding request for the Minister of State to visit the dunes to look at what has happened or to meet the committee. I appeal to the Minister of State to do that. I would appreciate it.

On the issue of Grianán Ailigh, the Minister of State's Department recently met with local councillors about the site. It is a very ancient site in Donegal and one which Fáilte Ireland has recommended as a worthwhile investment for the OPW. What plans does the Minister of State have for that site? Can he commit to further engagement with the local community and with representatives on that? What is the thinking at this point in time of the OPW on this very valuable site, not just for Donegal but for its national heritage and tourism potential and value?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I do not have the detail of that particular site with me but I will visit it when I go to Donegal. Any site like that is well worth looking at and we will work with the local councillors, the committee and Fáilte Ireland to see what the best plan is and what can be done with it.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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When the Minister of State comes to Donegal, will he take up the invitation to come to Maghery and meet with the local community? Burt Castle is a site managed by the OPW which is in need of significant restoration work. It is something the Minister of State should engage with the local elected representatives on when he makes his way-----

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I look forward to that.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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-----to the best part of the country.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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After Galway.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call on Deputy Murphy.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I am substituting for Deputy Michael McGrath. I will not call myself a super-sub but I hope I can engage in a positive manner. I welcome the Minister of State and his officials, particularly Mr. Buckley who is a constituent of mine. In the past he has been a champion of creating jobs and a great advocate for creating employment in some of the forgotten counties such as Roscommon. I wish him well in his role.

I have a number of questions I want to put to the Minister. I acknowledge that we have engaged a lot with the Minister of State and he is good at engaging. He has visited many localities that have been devastated by flooding. There has certainly been some movement on schemes, which I acknowledge. I will put a number of questions to the Minister of State and his officials. If one looks at the flood risk management programme, over a two-year period there has been a reduction of €12 million. The allocation in 2015 was over €87 million but, if I am correct, the allocation for 2017 is €75 million. What is the reason for the scale of that reduction over that two-year period? Was the full allocation drawn down over the years?

Could I have an answer to that question initially?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Initially, I can tell the Deputy, that there was a carryover of €7 million from the previous year which was spent in 2016-----

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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It was a carryover.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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-----along with the full allocation. Therefore, effectively, in 2016, we spent in excess of €52 million on flood relief alone, which was a record spend for flood relief specifically in any one year. We spent the €45 million plus the €7.52 million.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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That is fine. There also appears to be a substantial reduction in the level of funding provided to local authorities for minor works. Again, I will refer to a three year framework, namely, 2014, 2015 and 2016. If we look at 2014, the allocation was €9 million. In 2015, it was €16 million. However, according to the figures I have, in 2016 it was down to €3 million. The level of funding shows a sharp decline. If we take that same period, the number of proposed projects increased from 27 in 2014 to 55 in 2015 and to 83 in 2016. How can those figures be reconciled? Is it that the OPW is carrying out the works itself as opposed to funding the local authority for minor works?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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To date, the amount of funding which was approved to local authorities since the scheme was introduced is €37.621 million and the local authorities have drawn down €30.421 million. The value of works directly undertaken by the OPW is €1.5 million. The number of approved projects is 597 and the number of them that have been completed is 435. The estimated number of properties that were protected is 6,153. On average, each year there is approximately €3 million being spent on minor works. There is no reduction in the funding as such because we will fund what the local authorities seek. In terms of what they have sought, there may have been a spike that refers back to 2014 when there was an allocation of €9.34 million and the following year it was €16.83 million. However, those figures are related to storm damage. There was a specific fund for storm damage at the time, whereas the normal minor works flood relief schemes are averaging approximately €3 million per annum. There is no reduction. We pay out based on the funds that are applied for by the local authorities, which averages at approximately €3 million per year.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Would the Minister and his officials consider the possibility of broadening the minor works scheme? I think it is accepted that local authorities could solve many of those problems in the short term rather than having to go through the OPW with every project. Would it not be a good thing to consider the possibility of broadening the minor works scheme?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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When the Deputy speaks about broadening it, I presume he means doing more work.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I wrote to every chief executive of the local authorities inviting them to make more applications so that we can give them more money. However, there are a number of things to consider, including the capacity of the local authorities themselves to carry out these works or to even get the paperwork done and into us. More money can definitely be spent. There is no cap on what can be spent. My officials and I are are also reviewing the scheme itself in terms of its cost benefit and other areas to see how we can make it, one might say, more attractive. However, there definitely is huge interest in it from the local authorities. If they want to apply for additional moneys, that can be examined. We are not capping the money or refusing to give money if the scheme meets the criteria. As the Deputy stated, it is a very good scheme to get works done. One can see from the figures that nearly 6,200 properties have been protected for very small money.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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That is good news, which I welcome. Coming from Galway and having visited the Roscommon area, the Minister of State knows how badly we were hit and that we are still suffering the consequences of the last storm. Has the Minister of State specific road budgets within his Department or is it all with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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As the Deputy knows, the local authorities get the roads budget from the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. Where roads have to be raised, there is a funding mechanism in place that has been applied by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. The local authorities apply for funding for it. We do not have funding in that regard. Our primary objective is flood relief and emergency flood relief. That is where we work. We do not have funding for roads. The Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport provide that funding to local authorities. It also provided for special budgets last year in counties where flooding had caused damage to the roads.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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As the Minister of State knows, many roads have been cut off for a long period of time. Local businesses and schools were closed. If we consider parts of south Roscommon around Loch Fuinseann, which is still flooded long after the heavy rainfall is gone, would it not make sense to have a budget for roads in such areas?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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There is a danger that we would spend our money for flood relief on roads. I know, for instance, that the money was provided by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport from its budgets for anywhere along Loch Fuinseann where the roads were raised. There is money available to the local authorities for that. People contact me, including the Deputy, about getting works done here and there in terms of flood relief, which is my Department's responsibility. It would be like asking the Department of Health to build a road because we cannot get into the ambulance to the house. It does not do that and I cannot do that. I do not have a budget for it. We do not get a budget for it and we do not have the expertise that the local authorities have to construct roads or reconstruct them. Our expertise is in the area of flood and flood relief.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I want to deal with drainage maintenance for a moment or two. I acknowledge that the Minister of State has taken a keen interest in examining with the OPW ways to possibly relieve some of the flooding issues, particularly along the River Shannon basin. However, the Minister of State states:

In terms of drainage maintenance, the OPW continues to maintain all arterial drainage schemes completed under the 1945 Arterial Drainage Act. This investment provides ongoing protection to 650,000 acres of agricultural land, infrastructure and properties through the maintenance of 11,500 km of river channel including 730 km of embankments at an annual cost of €15 million. Separately, local authorities maintain 4,600 km of river channel providing further localised flood protection.

I put it to the Minister of State and his officials that there is in many respects a reluctance to deal with the issue of drainage.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The first thing I would say is that last year we spent €15.338 million on channel clearing, some €5 million of which was spent on the tributaries coming into the River Shannon. We have spent money on the River Boyne, the River Glyde in Monaghan, the River Inny, the River Brosna, the Broadmeadow River, the River Corrib, the River Moy, in Donegal - the Deputy is gone but we did spend money there - on the Boyle River, the River Bonnet, the River Feale, the River Maine, the River Deel, Shannon embankments - the River Maigue, Shannon embankments - north and south, the Mulkear River, the Groody River, and in Killimer, Nenagh River, and Dunmanway. Ongoing maintenance has been done year on year in all of these areas, where we have a legal responsibility. In other areas, the local authorities have responsibility. In some areas, the responsibility is with the repairing owners. We have prepared some information for the repairing owners on how they can deal with their areas.

I know what the Deputy is thinking, which is that there are those who say that this is all about channel maintenance. However, what we are doing on the River Shannon at the moment is unprecedented. Waterways Ireland and the OPW, in consultation with the National Parks and Wildlife Service have machines clearing areas down in Madden Island and up again on the Shannon above, in Carrick on Shannon and in Mountcampbell. Both sides, between Leitrim County Council and Roscommon County Council, are working together.

What we are doing within the Shannon Group is to prepare a template that we will be able to replicate in other areas where we have difficulties with channel clearing. We are preparing that at the moment. When carrying out channel clearing, we are working in SACs most of the time so we have to be very sensitive to what we do. We are working on that.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State, his officials and I all know that an amount of silt and peat has built up in the River Shannon over the years. Bord na Móna has major works in the localities right along the River Shannon in Roscommon, Longford, and Offaly. Has the Minister of State had any discussions with Bord na Móna about a possible dredging scheme to remove some of that silt from the Shannon? I am sure the Minister of State will agree that capacity has been taken up by the build-up of silt and other things on the Shannon. We need to get a dredging and drainage programme going as quickly as possible. Have we brought Bord na Móna on board? Is there any possibility of it coming on board, even on a pilot basis, to remove some of that silt?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Bord na Móna is a stakeholder in the Shannon. It is part of the Shannon Group. It is part of the agreement to put the maintenance programme in place which, as I said earlier, is unprecedented. A working group has been put together to identify works we can do fairly easily and works which would take longer as a result of having to get consent and because of the environment and the Habitats Directive. Bord na Móna is part of that. I met representatives of Bord na Móna last year and they are very co-operative. They very much want to make sure we bring a maintenance programme forward. They also suggested that over the winter the low boglands could be used as attenuation ponds, so water could be flooded into them if required. Bord na Móna is definitely on board. All of the stakeholders involved in the Shannon are signed up to working together to bring in a maintenance programme.

We talk about Bord na Móna and silt in the Shannon. I have looked at it and there are other areas where silt is coming in from private bogs. That has to be looked at. Over the years, things were done but now Bord na Móna works under a regime and what they can and cannot put into the Shannon is being controlled by the EPA. I raised that in my first meeting with the Shannon Group.

The other issue is the pilot schemes on water levels on Lough Allen, Lough Ree and Lough Derg. It shows the Shannon Group has mettle. It has demonstrated its mettle and that it is working with intent to get things done. It has been a success this winter and is being monitored on an ongoing basis. All of the local groups have recognised that things are being done in a co-operative way. The local groups in Carrick-on-Shannon, the groups we met at the conference in Athlone and the groups in Ballinasloe are also very co-operative.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for that. Previously, as the Minister of State, I and others know, the OPW has referred to the legal and contractual difficulties it may run into in delivering flood relief schemes. I am sure the Minister of State will agree this is a very relevant issue. Are we still dealing with legal and contractual problems with any of the works we are trying to carry out?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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When one is doing a project that impacts on an SAC, one always has to work with the rules, directions, habitats and directives that are there. We have to work within all of that and we have to work within the law. In the Office of Public Works all of the agencies that are involved, such as the National Parks and Wildlife Service, are co-operating very well with us. The intent there is to get works done. We are not being legally challenged but we have to work within the law so we will not be legally challenged and projects will not be held up. It may take longer to get the project to where we need to get it but we will avoid a situation like the one we had in Galway city, where the outer bypass has been delayed ten years because it ended up in the European courts. In the Office of Public Works, we make sure we work with the agencies to get around the issues so we can get a successful conclusion to projects without having a legal challenge.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I am coming to a conclusion and will finish with two very short questions. Is there a possibility of a drainage scheme for land owners? As the Minister of State knows, many landowners cannot afford to carry out necessary drainage works. I have no doubt this is an issue in flooding. Is there any intention of bringing into being a scheme that could alleviate some flooding difficulties that occur because farmers cannot drain the drains that are close to major roads? Europe tells me this is not a problem. There is no problem with small drainage schemes that will alleviate flooding. Is it something that is on the Minister of State's radar?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We have prepared a document on repairing owners which has been completed but we want to make sure we have legal advice before we issue it. It will advise farmers on what they can and cannot do in terms of their own banks of land beside the rivers. The biggest difficulty of the farmers I speak to is not the cost but the fact they do not know how to go about getting the permissions to do it. We are working on trying to get that in place. The concern of the farmers I have met is to make sure they keep the water going so it does not flood their land. They have a vested interest in it and have never said they want money to do it. What they have asked about it how to go about doing it and where to go. There is a plethora of agencies they may have to satisfy and we are trying to give them the guidance and help them so they can do the work.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Sherlock has dealt with the issue of Cork. I have had some representation on that issue as well but I will not hold the Minister of State up by asking about it.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is a national figure.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. I thank the Chairman for that vote of confidence from a Kilkenny man. I welcome that the voluntary home relocation scheme will come on stream in a couple of weeks. The Minister of State has said there is money ring fenced for that this year. Do we have an actual budget? What is the size of the budget for that?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The size of the budget for this year is €2 million, which was announced last November when we announced we were bringing in the scheme. One of the difficulties we have with the home relocation scheme is trying to identify exactly the quantity we are dealing with. At this stage, having talked to the local authorities and gotten back as much information as we can on the potential relocation units we might have, we could be talking about a €90 million budget in total. We have a €2 million budget to get the scheme up and running and we will look for further funding in 2018 and 2019 to continue with the relocation scheme.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am conscious that we have to finish before 3 p.m. I will ask the Minister of State a number of short questions about matters in my constituency which are relevant to the funding of the Minister of State's Department.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The Chairman is a national figure as well.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will be very parochial today and refer to a flood relief scheme in Callan, County Kilkenny. It has been carried out, funded by the OPW through the county council, but the appropriate permissions were not given by the National Parks and Wildlife Service and others for a particular section of the work in time for all of the work to be completed. The part that could be completed is completed but the silting up of the river is having an impact and is now rising over the non-return valves. Is there a possibility that either the Office of Public Works or the council will inspect it? Could funding be provided for the part that was not completed? It is causing serious problems with the eye of the bridges and the channel itself. There is a huge overgrowth now which is of concern to those who live in Callan. It is also a problem for the scheme.

The silt is now having a negative impact on the infrastructure that has been put in by the scheme. What happens in such a case? How quickly would it take the OPW to sanction the work that is required or is that the way the Minister of State would have to go with it?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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May I ask a question? When was this scheme completed or semi-completed?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Not a long number of years ago. I do not have the date when it was completed.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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What happens in that case is the local authority is the contracting authority but if it requires additional funding to do something, it would make an application to the Office of Public Works. There may still be funding. That is why I asked how long ago. The final account may not be finalised and funding could still be used through that account.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure that it is finalised, if that is the question.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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If there is an issue, when the Chairman stated that works were not allowed to be done by the National Parks and Wildlife Service, I presume that permission is there now.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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All the permissions are now there but, unfortunately, they could not be put in place at the time. Rather than lose the funding, it was decided to complete the works without that section and now it is that section that is causing the negative impact on the work that has already been done.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We can address that. If the Chairman gets the local authority to contact the office, we will talk to it about that.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State spoke earlier about the other question of insurance. It is the River Nore flood relief scheme, which had its issues with cost but which was a fantastic scheme to watch being delivered. The trucks were going up and down the bed of the river, etc. It was a great engineering achievement.

Downriver the OPW facilitated some properties by granting them funds to prepare their own flood relief in terms of the impact of the major works that were carried out at the city. In recent flooding, those works were washed away. Businesses were destroyed to the point where they had to be started again from scratch. I refer to Brett sawmills in Kilkenny which has been there for 100 years. It was so badly affected it is now hugely difficult to rebuild it because there is no insurance. I am merely asking what, if anything, the OPW can do to assist in that business because of the flooding.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We can identify the area where the problem is and maybe the local authority could make an application for minor works, or maybe it has been identified as an area that is at further risk within the CFRAM. If we get the detail off the Chairman, we can come back to him as to which route it should go.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is for the works. In the context of the business, there is no insurance because it is beside a river. It is a mill worked from the power of the river. Is there no compensation fund that can cover that?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We do not have any compensation fund.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Does the maintenance of weirs fall within the remit of the OPW or where does it fall? I had a discussion with the local authority about clearing weirs and it stated it is the OPW's remit, and if one goes to the OPW, it states it is the local authorities' remit.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Waterways Ireland would be the first port of call. However, if we have a location, we can identify who is responsible.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is it a fact that the OPW, Waterways Ireland and the local authority have different types of weirs that they are responsible for or is there one agency that covers the maintenance of all of them?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Where there is navigation it is Waterways Ireland. It is responsible for navigation and, therefore, it looks after the weirs.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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What if it is not navigation?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Normally, it could be either the OPW or the local authority.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It falls between the two.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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It would not fall between the two. If the Chairman identifies where it is, we will be able to identify who is responsible for it.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is fine. I have two questions on visitor centres and the spreading of numbers. As visitors come to Ireland and are attracted by Kilkenny Castle or the other heritage sites that we spoke about earlier, what plan has the Minister of State in place for the impact of Brexit on visitor numbers? Is there an engagement with the tourism promotion of these sites? Has the Minister of State conducted any analysis as to how these sites might be affected by it and deal with the issue, perhaps, of a drop in numbers?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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There is more co-operation now between Bord Fáilte and the OPW in developing and promotion of sites, nationally and internationally. While a good deal of our visitors come from England, if the Brexit brings borders with different exchanges or whatever, there could be difficulties. Under Brexit, each Department and agency, including Bord Fáilte, is looking at the implications for visitor numbers coming to Ireland. Bord Fáilte is involved in the promotion. What we are doing is ensuring we work with Bord Fáilte in promotion and also ensuring the facilities are fit for purpose when people come to visit.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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They are working together and are aware of the issues there might be.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Absolutely. We spoke earlier about the Wild Atlantic Way, Ireland's Ancient East and Dublin. Bord Fáilte is conducting a review of the idea of the midlands and the lakelands being developed as another tourist brand. We have a lot of gems which I have seen which I did not know about before I became Minister of State and which are not on the coast or down the Ireland's Ancient East route. They are in Offaly, Carlow, Kilkenny and east Galway. We need to promote all of them to showcase that we have something different. It is about marketing.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted to hear that because there is much more, for example, to Kilkenny than Kilkenny Castle. This brings me to the point on a visit by the OPW to a location in Jerpoint in Kilkenny, which is privately owned. It is the burial ground of St. Nicholas. It is the best example in Europe of the layout of a town. It is completely under grass but it has been presented in a way that one can identify the streets, the types of buildings and the river crossings. I wonder what grants are in place to assist the owner of that type of property at least to maintain it in order that those who are visiting on coach tours are able to access the property with appropriate walkways, etc., because now there are restrictions on those who come by bus and yet it is a promotion of a county location rather than the central location. What kind of grants or funding are available to assist people? While significant money is not made out of these sites, it is so important for the State to ensure they are presented properly.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Is the Chairman talking about Jerpoint Abbey?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I note its visitor numbers of 23,442. We have it on our radar. Fáilte Ireland is another area where the owner could look for funding.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is that the abbey or is the privately owned-----

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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It is Jerpoint Abbey which, I presume, is in public ownership.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is in public ownership. Right beside that there is, as I say, the layout of a whole town.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I would suggest that the person concerned contact Fáilte Ireland and see whether there is funding available to market it, to get it signposted on the tourist map and to maintain it.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is happening. It is the maintenance of these small sites which poses a financial burden on the owners. If smaller grants were made available, it would open up a huge location in a rural area in a county for visitors to come. The attraction is there. They are coming but there is a maintenance issue. I am merely asking if there is a way in which the OPW can assist with that.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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At the moment, not really, because it is in private ownership. Currently, we are looking at the properties that are within public ownership.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister of State consider looking at the possibility of a grant scheme? The OPW cannot manage or maintain every site, but where sites are hugely relevant to the profile of the country in terms of their heritage there should be some flexible maintenance grants available to owners that achieve a certain standard to ensure they can contribute to the county profile.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I suppose there are a number of avenues. For example, the local enterprise offices, LEOs, might be able to give assistance and the local tourism boards might be able to help as well. We do not have a scheme in place at the moment.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is getting better since his first appearance because now he is beginning to discover how he can move things sideways.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Does that comes with age or time?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State is doing well. It would be worthwhile to examine the possibility if there is a particular difficulty.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I appreciate that.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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My final point is about Kilkenny Castle. I mentioned to the Minister of State and his officials prior to the meeting about the possibility that the OPW would take a lead role in a project which I will outline. It is the desire of Kilkenny people that we would acknowledge the hand-over of the castle, which has made such a significant difference to Kilkenny city, county, the region and the country as a whole, from the Butler family to the castle restoration committee, most of whom are now dead but there is one surviving member. That is part of the history of the castle. Perhaps as part of the presentation of that more recent history some arrangement could be made to explain the delivery of the castle, as it were, to the State. It was given for a nominal sum of money, possibly £5, but it has made such a difference to the city and county that the OPW should take the initiative and honour those who were involved and the fact that the transaction took place in such a reasonable way for such a major piece of land. Séamus Pattison, a former Ceann Comhairle, often reminded me that in the course of the 1960s the Heinz company was going to apply to the local authority for a factory on the castle site. Thank God that did not happen because it is worth substantially more to the city than a factory would have been. I thank the Minister of State for his involvement in Kilkenny Castle.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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To respond to the question on Kilkenny Castle, we will take on board what you say, Chairman, and come back with a proposal.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I also thank the Minister of State for his intervention on Durrow Castle, which was worthwhile. That concludes the questions. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for being here.