Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 7 October 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions

Central Heating Systems: Regulation of Plumbing Standards

4:00 pm

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The committee is now sitting in public session in its capacity as the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions.We are considering Petition No. 40/14 submitted by Mr. Tony Rochford.

Officials from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government together with officials from the National Standards Authority of Ireland are appearing before the committee.

I remind all those present, including those in the Gallery that mobile phones and BlackBerry phones should be turned off completely or switched to flight or safe mode as they interfere with the sound system when they are on silent mode. We are very pleased to welcome from the National Standards Authority of Ireland, Mr. Maurice Buckley, chief executive officer and Ms Yvonne Wylde, manager standards technical and from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local, Ms Sarah Neary, senior adviser, Mr. Eamonn Smyth, engineering adviser and Mr. Martin Vaughan, assistant principal. I look forward to your presentations.

Members will be aware that this issue arose from Petition 40/2014, which concerns disease rates linked to central heating systems. The petitioner, Mr. Tony Rochford advises that since 2000, a large percentage of plumbers have started to use single check non-return valves to link the central heating system, CHS, to the householder's fresh water supply. According to the petitioner his research indicates that chemicals and bacteria are leaking into the householder's water supply. The petitioner was before the committee on 25 March 2015, at which meeting it was agreed to write to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, seeking the implementation of sections 9(5)(ii), 9(5)(iii) and 9(6)(4) of the draft code of practice as produced by the National Standards Authority of Ireland and the Department's plans to introduce regulations or legislation to address properties which are possibly already affected by the issue.

It was also agreed at that time to invite representatives of the National Standards Authority of Ireland and officials from the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government to appear before the joint committee in public session.

Our considerations centre on the establishment of regulations concerning the use of single check non-return valves; whether regulation of the plumbing sector in Ireland exists; whether all EU directives standards regulations have been transposed; and the standards and regulations that exist in Ireland and the EU in regard to ensuring there is no back-flow contamination. Any related health concerns as identified by the petitioner will be addressed at a future meeting when we will have officials from relevant Departments to address them.

Before commencing, I must inform you that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, you are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence you give to this committee. However, if you are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and you continue to so do, you are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and you are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I now invite Mr. Buckley to make his presentation.

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

I would like to thank the committee for the invitation to assist in your consideration of the issues raised in the petition regarding the installation of central heating systems and the ongoing standardisation work NSAI is undertaking in the area of plumbing services.

This is my first occasion before this committee and I am accompanied by my colleague, Ms Yvonne Wylde, manager standards technical, with expertise in construction and today we will endeavour to address any matters raised by the committee.

I am aware that the committee will be addressed by officials from the Department of Environment, Communications and Local Government and since that Department and agencies under its auspices have statutory responsibility for water services, water safety, water quality, building regulations and building standards generally I will confine my comments to NSAI’s role and its work on standardisation.

I am happy to take any questions from members but before doing so I would like to provide the committee with some background information on the NSAI and its standardisation role with particular reference to the plumbing issue in question.

NSAI, as the Irish national standards body, is responsible for developing technical specifications for products, processes and practices in the form of written standards, guides or codes of practice. While there are some differences in the character of each of these documents they are collectively referred to as ‘standards’ for the purposes of today's hearing.

Standards are generally voluntary but can be made legally binding when referenced as mandatory by legislation. Of the 1,500 or so national, European and international standards published annually by NSAI an increasing number are used to support legislation by providing the user with means of demonstrating compliance with legal requirements through using the standard. This type of reference establishes the standard as a preferred route of compliance without it becoming mandatory.

In the absence of any legal reference, standards remain voluntary to be used by businesses as a means of demonstrating state-of-the-art or best practice.

NSAI develops standards through its network of consultative committees. Committee members are drawn from industry, government and societal interest groups to work on matters of common interest. It is NSAI's role to act as a facilitator for that process.

There are currently two related consultative committees dealing with domestic heating and plumbing. These are the Building Services Consultative Committee, and the Water Supply Standards Consultative Committee. The Building Services Consultative Committee is dealing with the code of practice for domestic hot water and heating, and the Water Supply Standards Consultative Committee is dealing with a similar code of practice for cold water systems.

These committees currently comprise representatives from policy makers-regulators, manufacturers, trade associations, local authorities, academia, insurers, private water suppliers, consultants and installers. The two committees liaise through nominated members to ensure there is no duplication or overlap between their work and the necessary cross-referencing can take place.

There are normally five stages in the standards development process: identifying the needs and benefits of a standard; defining the scope, i.e. identifying the technical, environmental or safety specifications which need to be set; consultation with a view to achieving a consensus; a process of public inquiry; and finally, the publication of the finished standard.

As a member of the European and international standards organisations, NSAI can only undertake national standardisation work in the absence of suitable standards being published by those organisations. Furthermore, in the interests of global and EU trade, NSAI is obliged to adopt such European or international standards as national standards and ensure any existing national publications are compatible with their content.

In all European member states, the regulation of supply of drinking water and the quality of drinking water are matters for the appropriate agencies and bodies charged with those responsibilities. It is a well recognised fundamental design principle when designing, installing or maintaining water supply systems that potable water installations must be protected from contamination, such as backflow from central heating systems, which is the issue in question today.

Several Irish standards, developed through the European system, give guidance on this issue. They include IS EN 806, which is concerned with the specifications for installation inside buildings conveying water for human consumption. That standard, broken into five parts, was developed from 2000 to 2012. Another standard, IS EN 12828, from 2012, with an annex in 2014, addresses heating systems in buildings and the design of water-based heating systems. A further standard, IS EN 1717, from 2000, with a national annex published in 2011, deals with protection against pollution of potable water in water installations and the general requirements of devices to prevent pollution by backflow.

Both IS EN 12828 and IS EN 806, on the design of water and central heating systems, implicitly recognise that drinking water supplies can become contaminated by backflow, and the standards specify methods for addressing these risks. Part 2 of IS EN 806 recognises the existence of national or local regulations and requirements and the need to prevent the contamination of water.

The national annex, NA, to IS EN 1717 - I am sorry for quoting all these numbers, but they are important - provides guidance regarding backflow prevention in Ireland, taking account of the low-pressure ventilated mains water systems. The guidance notes the practice of having an unrestricted air gap to protect the incoming water supply against backflow, unless otherwise expressly permitted in writing by the appropriate responsible water authority. In other cases it recommends that a risk assessment be carried out in accordance with the standard.

In 2006 the need for an Irish code of practice for plumbers was identified to complement the existing European standards, with the project beginning in earnest in 2008. This project was aimed at developing a best practice guide for use by the trade, by drawing together the references to relevant standards with useful explanations in an easily readable form. The project was supported by key stakeholders including the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, which committed funds to support the necessary work. A first-draft code of practice was published in 2010 for public comment. This consultation was met with great interest, resulting in the submission of more than 200 observations to NSAI. The public inquiry draft in 2010 took account of relevant local authority by-laws available at that time. Those local authorities, in general, required that water systems contain an adequate device or devices to prevent the occurrence of backflow. The draft code of practice drew together these requirements as best practice.

Following the 2010 public inquiry and further consideration, it was decided to split the very large draft standard into two parts to enable work to proceed more efficiently. These two parts are titled SR 50-1, for domestic hot water and heating, and SR 50-3, for domestic plumbing for cold water systems.

Due to the level of interest from the various groups involved, the prioritisation of other critical projects and the availability of key stakeholder input and internal resources, work on the project was put on hold until being reactivated earlier this year. The most recent review has identified a need for further work to address technical developments, changes in building practices, availability of updated European standards and related matters raised by harmonised standards under the EU construction products regulation. Irish Water, which was established in the interim, is also now engaged as a key stakeholder. The projects are progressing well, and it is expected that drafts of both documents will be issued for public inquiry during 2016.

As previously stated, standards are voluntary documents unless referenced as mandatory or as conferring a presumption of compliance through legislation. When the code of practice documents are published by NSAI, the relevant authorities may choose to reference them in whatever way they consider appropriate.

Ms Sarah Neary:

I thank the committee for inviting the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to assist in its consideration of issues raised in the petition. I am the senior technical adviser in the architecture and building standards section of the Department. I am accompanied by my colleagues Eamonn Smyth, engineering adviser, and Martin Vaughan, assistant principal.

The subject before the committee is technical in nature and the Department is happy to outline its understanding of the relevant product standards, technical guidelines and regulatory controls at home and abroad that inform consideration of this matter. I note that the National Standards Authority of Ireland, from which we have just heard, has also accepted the committee’s invitation, and I welcome its participation in the discussion.

It is important to note that with effect from 1 January 2014, Irish Water assumed statutory responsibility for public water services under the Water Service Acts. Irish Water is now the designated national authority with responsibility for water services, and the quality and integrity of the water supply in general comes within the remit of Irish Water. As such, any questions from committee members on this aspect of the matter must be directed to Irish Water.

It might be helpful to summarise the existing and proposed regulatory arrangements relevant to the matters raised in this petition. The petitioner’s issue relates to the installation of a sealed primary heating circuit as part of an indirect vented hot water system. His concerns focus on the method of filling the sealed circuit with water and the potential for backflow contamination. The sealed primary heating circuit is the pipework that goes from the boiler to a coil in the hot water cylinder. While sealed circuits have existed for some time in the industry and are used in many jurisdictions across Europe, they are relatively new in Ireland. Traditionally, hot water systems in Ireland had vented primary heating circuits, which effectively meant there was a dedicated feed and expansion cistern for the boiler in the attic, in addition to the main cold water storage tank. For a sealed primary heating circuit, the feed and expansion cistern for the boiler are redundant. The sealed system is fitted with an expansion vessel to accommodate the increased volumes. In terms of supplying a feed to fill this circuit, a temporary connection is typically made to the mains water supply.

British Standards have dealt with these systems for some time. The current British standard is BS 8558, "Guide to the design, installation, testing and maintenance of services supplying water for domestic use within buildings and their curtilages." That is complementary guidance to the European suite, EN 806. This standard outlines the proper procedures for sealed circuits. It sets out how the connection to the mains water supply may be made by providing a servicing valve, a temporary connecting pipe and an appropriate backflow prevention device.

This arrangement presents some risk to the mains supply, and the petitioner rightly refers to this. Normally, the pressure in a primary heating circuit is less than that of the mains supply pipe.

However, if a fault occurs in a pressure relief valve in the system for example, the pressure in the circuit could rise above the pressure in the mains. If the servicing valve is left in the open position and the backflow prevention device fails, there is potential for backflow of the fluid in the heating circuit into the mains supply. This has the potential to cause contamination of the mains supply. For the avoidance of such backflow and contamination, the temporary connecting pipe must be completely disconnected from the outlet of the backflow device and the connection with the primary circuit after the completion of filling or periodic replenishing. BS 8558 also provides guidance on the prevention of stagnation associated with this temporary connection.

The petitioner has also raised the issue of the type of backflow devices suitable for these installations. The standard for backflow prevention devices is IS EN 1717. This standard deals with the means to be used to prevent the pollution of potable water inside premises and the general requirements of protection devices to avoid pollution by backflow.

The national annex to EN 1717 recommends carrying out a risk assessment if using backflow prevention valves to ensure fitness for purpose. It also advises that permission should be sought from the water services authority. Any backflow protection device should be fit for purpose, manufactured in accordance with the relevant product standards and installed by an experienced plumber or technician. The Registered Gas Installers of Ireland, RGII, includes the above guidance regarding the temporary connection to sealed heating circuits in its installation guides for gas heating systems. The oil fired heating systems associations, such as OFTEC, provide comparable guidance, and boiler manufacturers highlight this issue and provide explicit installation rules in their manuals.

The relevant legislation dealing with this aspect of water supply is the Water Services Act 2007. Section 54 provides that the owner of a premises shall ensure the internal distribution system of a premises is sufficient to ensure, and maintained in such condition as to ensure, water intended for human consumption meets prescribed quality requirements at the tap or taps used for such purposes. Irish Water has powers to issue notices to direct the owner of a premises to undertake remedial action where there is an issue with the quality of the water.

The National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, has been developing an Irish code of practice for building services - domestic plumbing and heating. As Mr. Buckley explained, this has been put out for public consultation and is being reviewed. The NSAI committees will review and finalise the proposed code of practice for heating systems, hot water systems, cold water systems and, importantly, their interlinkages in the context of the suite of European standards known as EN 806. This will provide Ireland for the first time with a national standard for plumbing and heating. The Department is very supportive of this work by NSAI. The outcome of the work on the code of practice will inform the Department’s consideration of any further policy or regulatory proposals that may be necessary in this area.

That completes my overview of the existing and proposed regulatory arrangements relevant to the committee’s consideration of this petition. My colleagues and I look forward to participating further in the discussion or answering any questions the committee may have.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Unfortunately, I have to leave at 5 p.m. to deal with amendments to legislation in another committee and one of my colleagues will take over. Regulation of standards is very topical. There is another significant problem with fire regulations for people who purchased homes at Longboat Quay in Dublin. There are many other issues throughout the State. If there are EU regulations to ensure the drinking water in a home is safe, who is responsible for ensuring these are implemented?

Ms Sarah Neary:

The Water Services Act 2007 sets the requirements in terms of water supply.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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If a developer puts a house on the market or a person builds his or her home and seeks planning permission, is there somebody who checks that what the plumber has installed is done to the appropriate EU safe standard?

Ms Sarah Neary:

Traditionally, one had to apply for permission to connect to the main supply and the water services authority required one to do certain things before connecting. It used to be done by the local authority and was governed under by-laws. Now Irish Water is the national water services authority. Under the Water Services Act 2007 it has a similar process and responsibility and enforcement powers.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I am concerned because Mr. Buckley and Ms Neary have confirmed what the petitioner said, that there is the potential for pollution by backflow if the appropriate installation does not take place. That is a profoundly serious public health concern. Who holds either the plumber or the developer to account? Who says a house has a plumbing infrastructure which meets the EU, British or Irish standard that ensures the drinking water is safe and that he or she stands over it? Who is responsible for ensuring that happens in every house in the State and signs off on it?

Ms Sarah Neary:

Section 54 of the Water Services Act 2007 requires that the owner be responsible for the distribution system within the house and for maintaining it. The water services authority has powers to request the owner to take remedial action if there is a problem with the water quality. If the guidance is followed, the risk of contamination is extremely low if at all because the pipe is completely disconnected once filling or replenishing has happened. The guidance is very clear. It is a very simple and not a very expensive step.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh took the Chair.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the witnesses today. I agree with the Chairman that accountability and responsibility are very important. There are many ways to heat a house now. I live in a rural area and in the old days oil was the main fuel.

Then it increased in price and people brought in solid fuel arrangements. In more recent years, I have seen windmills and heat pumps used. Does the type of system used for central heating matter? Most of the central heating systems heat water in the pipes. I have heard there is more and more emphasis on insulating houses so that we now have warmer houses than we did 20 or 30 years ago. No matter what system is used, it needs some way to trigger heating the water in the pipes. In recent years, I have seen solar panels being used. Is any differentiation made regarding how the water is heated? Is it still the case that if one is unsure about the water, one boils it? We have boil water notices throughout the country regarding various systems. We will not get into the health area today but with regard to putting people's minds at ease, we have been reassured by the witnesses on many issues. Is boiling water one way to deal with the question of disease?

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

The point regarding boil notices and boiling water is a separate issue that deals with the quality of the incoming water supply to the rising main. The risk of contamination we are speaking about is various chemicals and there is no guarantee that boiling the water would alleviate this problem were it to exist. To take the broader point on the huge range of heating systems, much technology is involved in every aspect of a modern house and, as the Deputy rightly said, insulation has changed. In the world of standards, we are working very hard at European level and being part of the big European system gives Ireland an advantage with regard to keeping up with all of the changing technologies and having proper standards reflecting the various products and how they are applied. Approximately 600 or 700 standards are related to the construction products regulation alone, never mind the application of these. It is tricky to keep these up to date all of the time. We can do this as members of the EU.

The standards are available. Many of them are adopted and referenced in the building regulations, which makes them legally binding, to answer the earlier question. If a deficiency is found, it can be addressed immediately. Even if standards are not directly referenced in the building regulations, they are an indication of best practice. If a purchaser has a dispute with a developer and the situation is unclear, the courts in Ireland, as elsewhere, will reference the standards as an indication of best practice. If an installer works in a different way, the onus is very much on him or her to prove the system is safe. The standards are very valuable in this respect.

Even with the increasing sophistication and variations of systems, one must also look at the skills set and training of the people doing the insulation. This is why bit by bit all of the traditional trades are coming more and more under a structure. For a number of years, we have had very precise control systems for gas and electricity through the Register of Gas Installers of Ireland and other bodies. This is very accurately regulated and works well. We are not yet at this point for other trades, such as plumbing, which is where the standard reference, which began in 2010, comes into its own. It is the first attempt to pull together all of this technology to have a guidance base for the plumbing profession and apprenticeships.

It is great to have the support of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and SEAI, and we work very closely on this. The industry itself must also come along and must see the need to do this. Plumbing is a traditional trade, perhaps passed on from father to son. Society, in general, is trying to balance the need for a greater level of sophistication and controls with keeping the existing infrastructure in place and finding the right timing for this. These are all complex interrelated matters and any number of technical risks are involved. We do a lot of work on radon control, for example, which is an issue, insulation systems, as the Deputy mentioned, and water quality, where we have the issues raised in the petition. There are also concerns about legionnaires' disease and other impurities that can happen in the water system. All of these are covered by various aspects, and the task at hand is to get a balance between all of these.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The idea of zonal heating is something I have heard about only recently, but I am sure it has been around for ages. This is with regard to larger houses, and I have spoken to people in the business about it. Quite a large house could have two or perhaps three zones. I am concerned about this because if some parts of a house are warm and others are not, is there any issue of water being contaminated in such a situation?

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

Zoning is in part L of the building regulations and is to prevent energy loss by not heating areas people do not want to heat. Most systems are now zoned with a manifold system and are based on thermostats in various areas which are turned on or off automatically depending on timeframes. All of the systems are closed, so there is no risk of getting close to the water involved and the temperature is always above 60° Celsius and legionella is killed automatically in seconds at 60° Celsius. There is no risk in any of them. Legionella must be inhaled through an airspray or aerosol, so shower heads have been a problem historically and there are issues in this regard are present, but not in heating systems.

All of the various heating systems, in particular oil and gas, are based on normal hot water heating systems and the back boiler systems are the same. Air to water heat pumps rely on a heat transfer and once this heat transfer has occurred it is the same type of system from a distribution point of view.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Buckley stated not all of the standards apply to plumbing yet, but the water comes in from the mains anyway and would not be contaminated if the heat was on or off in different parts of our house.

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

Normally there is no connection to the mains water coming in. In a traditional system, the mains water comes in and services the tap in the house and then goes to the storage tank and everything else is fed from this. As the petitioner rightly says, in recent years we have gone to the European system where we pressurise the system. Historically, there was a 40 litre expansion tank in the attic with an expansion pipe which was totally separate to the normal storage tank. People have been copying the European system, where the system is pressurised directly using a pressure vessel, pressure release valve and pressure gauge.

Rather than using a pump system or something like that, they use the mains pressure to fill and pressurise the system. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that; it is allowed, but it is temporary. There should be a temporary connection between the central heating system and the mains, with a double-check valve or protection on it when it is connected, along with a shut-off valve. In order for contamination to occur, the two systems would have to be connected, there would have to be a sudden depressurisation in the mains supply, and the double-check valve would have to fail. The problem is that people are leaving the two systems permanently connected, which is not supposed to happen, and, as the petitioner has stated, using a valve that may not be as robust as the type that is recommended.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am intrigued by the last contribution, but I can come back to it. It suggests that there is a problem. I believe the petitioner wrote to us about the need to establish whether there is a problem and what action should be taken.

I thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee. For most of us mere mortals, some of this is quite technical, and we bring to it our own life experiences in some ways. Are the witnesses aware of incidents of failure among these non-return valves to date? Have a number of them failed?

I moved into my house in 2009 or 2010. The plumber who had taken on the work disappeared quite soon afterwards. We found a number of issues quite quickly. The pressure pump went straight away. The thermostats on some of the radiators disappeared, so there were very high temperatures in some rooms. That was easy to change. The builder came and fixed it because it was under guarantee, and replaced it with something that works. In that case, somebody bought the equipment and installed it, and it failed. Has there been a noticeable increase in reports of these valves failing, either in commercial or domestic systems?

The witnesses mentioned in the presentation that the NSAI had been working on a standard since 2006, which is a long time. I know there are other standards that need to be worked on. Given that the Government has told us that we are coming out of recession and austerity, and that there is huge demand for housing in this city and across the country, is it not very urgent to have new home-building standards in place to ensure we do not replicate what we have been hearing in the news, not just in terms of water but also in other areas? Those standards need to be protected. I know the witness mentioned that once they are in primary or secondary legislation we have the means to enforce them. Would it be more appropriate for those standards to have that protection if possible?

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

I cannot comment on the incidence of valve failures. We would not have that information. My colleagues might be able to comment. With regard to the second point on the plumbing standard, SR 50, I believe it would be an addition to complete the standard work now; it has been there for a long time.

That delay was partly a question of resources and also a question of the industry agreeing the right level of regulation for the practitioners themselves. Are we talking about some sort of registration system for plumbers that they would go along with? Are we talking about some sort of central regulation? This is a question that has wider implications for that sector, for that trade, for the cost of building and so on. All of that needs to be taken together.

We in the NSAI and our colleagues in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government would be of the view that the time has now come to have that reference standard and to feed it into the training systems, the apprentice systems and so on. As mentioned earlier, that standard is being actively worked on, and we hope to have significant progress on it with hopefully everybody involved. The committee's efforts might encourage the industry stakeholders to become involved in that work so that we can finalise a high-quality document very quickly.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome that, but I know that sometimes it is difficult to get agreement. Our job is to ensure that the best standard is set out for all of this. Regardless of whether there is agreement, we should encourage the NSAI and others to try to get that as quickly as possible before we go through another large phase of house building.

Even though I am not that old, I remember when Qual-PEX was not the standard material for domestic use in Ireland. Qual-PEX is a flexible pipe made of plastic. Previously all domestic pipes were of copper. Copper is dearer and not as pliable and is in short supply worldwide. There are many standards - asbestos was a standard years ago. Lead is still a standard because nobody has decided to remove lead from thousands of houses in this city.

There was reference to Irish Water having the right to instruct householders to fix problems in their houses relating to the water system. I know of tens of thousands of houses in this city that have within them - not outside, which is the responsibility of the city council or Irish Water - a health hazard as we speak, never mind what the petitioner has argued in terms of the lead within their system, because they are going through lead piping that can be 50 or 60 years old.

The standard we set in Ireland, as we have done previously, is often out step with the European standard. Sometimes they are catching up with us and sometimes we are catching up with them. I have talked to electricians who have said that the standard in Ireland is higher than in many other European countries. I do not know; I am not an electrician. All I want to know is that Ireland has a set standard to ensure the greatest protection for the ordinary Joe or Josephine who buys or rents a house to ensure that the water they are getting in their tap is fit for use. The quicker that is done, the better.

If the NSAI introduces a standard now, would it be retrospective? That may be a question for the Minister. If it is retrospective, it means a retrofit. So we are setting new standards for insulation. The Government is giving grants for retrofit.

I have one more question for the Department.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I will let the Deputy back in, but first we might get a response.

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

To be clear, there are standards now. There are many standards for all those different aspects of the system and the insulation. One might argue that at times there are too many standards. The trick is to provide guidance to navigate around the different systems and know what is appropriate in different areas. So the question of retrofit does not apply here because the standards exist.

It is possible to say what best practice is, and nobody would disagree on what it is. The problem is where best practice has not been followed. So retrofit is appropriate in individual developments where it is found that the workmanship was not up to scratch.

We are faced with all of these horrendous issues at the moment - for example, whether developers are still available in order to challenge and chase them for unsafe workmanship? The standard provides the reference point. The technical standard has not dramatically changed over time and there has been steady progression. Ireland has followed and adopted all of the best practice as it happened. The issue is to ensure that the standard is properly used across the industry.

Ms Sarah Neary:

I go back to the earlier question on the instance of failures. To date, we have no reports on the instance of failures of double-check or single-check valves. I will put the statistics to one side and say that all mechanical devices or fittings are liable to fail at any time. In this situation the double-check valve has the job of preventing backflow. The real reduction in risk comes from completely disconnecting the temporary pipe. It is a safety mechanism that works by only filling the system at the beginning and replenishes for one reason or another. It is the primary defence mechanism. One does not leave the pipe permanently connected to the mains.

In terms of standards and retrospective application, I wish to state that regulations do not apply retrospectively and, therefore, it would not be a matter for a retrofit to this standard. Concerned homeowners may apply best practice in this situation. As Mr. Buckley has outlined, best practice is available in many sources. It is very explicit, gives good advice on what to do and is reasonably inexpensive and simple for people to carry out, where necessary. In terms of the future, once the SR 50 is finalised and published then the Department, comprised of the various sections which range between water services and building regulations and Irish Water, will consider the policies and legislative requirements in this area in order to implement SR 50.

I wish to make a final general point about home building. The building regulations cover a large part of the home building functional requirements. The building control legislation that came into force recently has created a very controlled system whereby the design is signed off by a competent person. The building process is also inspected on a regular basis by an assigned certifier that is competent in the area. At the end of the process the builder and the assigned certifier sign off, thus certifying that the project complies with the building regulations.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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One of the problems that we have identified, and it is an issue that has been accepted by Ms Neary, is that this can become a problem unless somebody has an understanding that it is a problem or unless somebody inspects it. I refer to when people leave the temporary connection in place. I could not tell by looking at the pipework in my house whether the connection worked or not. I would know if there was a problem and would presume that I could solve it by switching off the water but beyond that my first port of call would be to telephone a plumber. We all agree that trades that work in this sector need regulation. One must have faith in the inspection team and one presumes that a qualified plumber will be able to fix the problem. Unfortunately, many homes in Ireland were built during a period when there was lax adherence to established standards and that is what happened with Priory Hall, Longboat Quay and other buildings.

There is no inspection regime or audit in place. This week I asked the Taoiseach and Tánaiste to conduct an audit to identify the problems. The State may not have the wherewithal to fix the buildings but at least the owner or tenant would have some idea where a problem stems from and thus take remedial action. People will take a chance and will survive even though they know there may be a problem. I urge anybody who is aware of problems with their water systems to immediately get them checked out. I have seen black water come out of radiators in my house. I do not know what type of stomach aches or whatever would result if that got into a public water system but I am sure it would not be good.

Stagnant water in immersions is another problem that was raised by the petitioner. Stagnant water can result and remain in the water system if the double valve or backflow system fails Not everybody clears or flushes out their heating system on a regular basis which means that one could have a contaminant in a water system for a while.

The witnesses have identified a potential problem in their presentations. We have learned that regulation needs to be put in place as soon as possible. I have put a lot of work on the witnesses and they have competing demands. The water system is something that each person in a household avails of. It is for public health reasons, rather than safety reasons, that we should put systems in place that will give people the necessary assurance.

Ms Sarah Neary:

Mr. Smyth will deal with the stagnation issue.

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

With regard to stagnation in the particular system that the petition showed, it is connected from the actual house storage. As I described to Deputy Kitt, it should not be connected like that. It should be connected from its own expansion tanks. If one gets any backflow one will go back into a system that only circulates within the heating system and not back into house water that can, potentially, come out of taps. The system should not be connected like that at all, and that is in the event there is backflow.

With regard to the stagnation issue, it is always recommended that any connection is done using a very short length of pipe so there is no amount of water within it that would stagnate. Stagnant water when heated can lead to stomach aches. The petitioner raised the issue of stagnant water occurring in the hotpress where the temperature might rise above 20° Celsius and start to grow Legionella bacteria, and I agree that is always possible. As I said to Deputy Kitt, once such water goes into the system it will be heated to above 60° Celsius thus killing Legionella within seconds. In most cases there is no risk. I agree with the petitioner that such a situation should not happen. It is a short way of feeding the system which should be fed from a separate tank and not from the domestic supply at all. In general, all of the issues that have been raised are down to poor workmanship rather than poor standards or requirements. Poor workmanship has been involved in all of the issues.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is poor workmanship because we do not have an inspections regime and standards that are enforceable. Am I correct?

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

I disagree with the Deputy. There is an onus on a person who does a job to do it right. The workmen have all been trained in most cases. The issue is not new and there has been a lot of training schemes down the years.

We know how to plumb a house with an expansion vessel on it. That has been there since I was a young lad and that is a while back. That is not the issue. Shortcuts are being taken. They may be taken in absolute innocence in that they do not know that this creates a different risk and they ask why they need that when they have the other there but the reality is that it is a workmanship issue.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Does anybody else wish to respond to those points made by Deputy Ó Snodaigh? No. I might just ask a few questions myself. One thing that intrigued me is the fact that we were discussing the development of the Irish standards but Ms Neary's presentation mentioned the fact that the British standards are the ones that are being used. Could she explain why this is the case? Why is the Department not stipulating that Irish standards be used? On page 3 of the presentation, it states that British standards have dealt with these systems for some time and the current standard is BS 8558.

Ms Sarah Neary:

I thank the Acting Chairman for his question and the opportunity to clarify. The Irish standard is being developed. In its absence, we have traditionally looked to the British standards where they apply because of our similarities in construction methods, etc. It was the point that the British standards had dealt with this issue explicitly for some time and it would be the prevailing standard here in the absence of an Irish standard. The RGII would have based its guidance on that standard; Oftec, which is the oil-fired plumbing association; and the boiler manufacturers. It was just a reference point in terms of where the guidance can be found.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I thank Ms Neary for clarifying that. The other issue that strikes me is that we could have all the standards and rule books in the world but they are all voluntary. Therefore, if I was to hire a plumber to build my house, they put in a substandard system that does not comply with the standards and I notice it is substandard, what could I do? What recourse do I have?

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

That is a good point. There is always a question regarding the fact that standards are voluntary. There are two ways. First, if it is a fundamental point that standard may have been referenced in the building regulations in which case it is a very clear black-and-white legal requirement and there is no question but the work was done incorrectly.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I understand that but do the witnesses imagine that what we are looking at in this case would have been referenced in the building regulations? Would that be normal?

Ms Sarah Neary:

This is a water supply issue, which would be governed by the Water Services Act. The building regulations deal with functional requirements relating to buildings. For example, in a house, we require that there is a cold water supply and a hot water supply and that there is storage of cold water. They are the kind of functional things that the building regulations would deal with along with preventing the pipes from freezing.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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To go back to my rogue plumber, if I was in a situation like that mentioned by the petitioner, do I have any comeback?

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

I would make the point that the existence of a standard is a reference point for what is best practice. It is a reference point for the purchaser and consumer and it is a reference point for the plumber. As I might have said earlier, even if it is not explicitly referenced in legislation and is, therefore, a voluntary standard, if a person takes issue and goes back to the plumber or, if necessary, goes to a court of law, they can say that this standard is here and this is best practice. In that situation the plumber is on the back foot because unless they can demonstrate that the method applied was for some reason better than that or an acceptable alternative, they are in difficulty whereas the consumer has the referenced standard to support their case.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Yet it is not necessarily illegal. If I drive over the speed limit, the reference is the speed limit and if I break that speed limit, there is a law to enforce the fact that I have gone over it. Is there any penalty for a rogue plumber to really incentivise them if there are shortcuts to be taken that would save money, if they decide that the penalties are not that serious and if they wonder who is going to bother taking them to court or who will even find out?

Ms Sarah Neary:

The situation is that, historically, the local authorities were the water services authority, they had their bye-laws that were their rules and they had authorised officers and could inspect. There was entire procedure around that. We have moved to a national water services authority in Irish Water. It is around the table in terms of writing the first ever plumbing and heating guide through the NSAI process. On foot of that, the Department and Irish Water will be reviewing any policy or legislative requirements to implement this standard fully.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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To answer the question, what Ms Neary is saying is that the onus is on me as the owner of the house to check and to find out that there is an issue and then it is up to me to challenge the plumber who installed the system. Possibly the only route I might have is to take them to court if I feel they have not applied the standard. Is that correct?

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

Ms Neary has already explained how simple and inexpensive the particular issue we are considering here is so I do not think the Acting Chairman would have a problem with his plumber if he went to them and I do not think legal recourse would be necessary. On a more serious issue regarding the overall quality of a house, if building regulations have not been complied with and if the owner does not get engagement, the building code is enforceable and there is legal recourse through the courts. Given our experience in the past few years with the building boom where there was widespread disregard of the regulatory requirements, we have moved to put in place a better building control framework. That involves oversight of the construction project by professionals. Registered construction professionals must draw up inspection plans, execute them with others and certify the building when it is complete. We are also investing in oversight by local authorities to support that system. The points that Deputy Ó Snodaigh and the Acting Chairman made about the lack of oversight previously are well made. The system has reacted to those and there will be better oversight by industry professionals and local authorities of every house that is built in the future.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Are those the regulations that were brought in last year where I would have to hire an engineer as part of the building process and they would certify-----

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

SI No. 9 of 2014 to be specific.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Prior to that, adhering to the standards of the day was really at the behest of the developer, builder or plumber in question.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

Yes but if that was done, the standards were legally enforceable and people do have recourse by civil enforcement through the courts.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Sorry for being pedantic but could Mr. Vaughan explain the difference between a voluntary standard and something that is legally enforceable?

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

The building regulations are not voluntary. I am talking about the building regulations. They are not voluntary. They must be complied with. They are mandatory.

Mr. Maurice Buckley:

If I may come in on that, I think the Acting Chairman is saying that if someone does not comply the building regulations, it is a crime but if their workmanship is defective, it can, ultimately, become an issue for the courts to decide. I am not a lawyer but in my experience, the courts will reference the standards that pertain in Ireland and Europe and that will make it a very clear decision point. The issue, which can be a very real situation for many people, is not to determine whether the workmanship was adequate. That is fairly easily determined because the reference points are there. The problem is whether the developer or plumber is available to seek redress from in a civil action.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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To return to the petition, I want to clarify this point because we will be coming back to this at a later date. The petition alludes to the fact that potentially over 100,000 households might be affected by the issue with this particular type of non-return valve. Is it possible that so many houses in Ireland might be affected by a faulty non-return valve or water being contaminated by the lack of that temporary connection being disconnected? Mr. Smyth said that one needs three elements for the water to be contaminated, so could this have happened in the case of over 100,000 systems?

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

No.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

That is a hypothetical question. The point is we do not have evidence. We have had no other complaints about this issue. We do not have any evidence with which we can give an objective answer to the question. We are more than open to sharing evidence if anybody else has such evidence but it is a hypothetical question. It is clear my colleagues have confirmed in technical terms that this back-flow issue occurs but, in terms of the scale and the significance of that on the water quality, it is not really a matter for ourselves. We do not deal with the quality of the water. Perhaps if the committee brought in Irish Water, it could deal with that aspect of the matter, or the HSE, if it is a public health matter.

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

If I may clarify one point, I would say it could occur. We have no evidence that it actually has occurred. Earlier I made the point that if it is done right, one needs three things to happen in order to have contamination.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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On the flip-side of that, Mr. Smyth does not have any evidence that it has not occurred. There is no evidence either way.

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

We seem to be hearing a lot though-----

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I am trying to play devil's advocate on behalf of the petitioner.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

That is absolutely true. We will give the Acting Chairman that one.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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There is no evidence either way and there is no way we could know.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

We are dealing with a regulatory process here. We depend on objective evidence-based analysis for the decisions we make. We must justify any regulatory steps we take.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Mr. Vaughan said not a single case has been brought to his attention.

Mr. Eamonn Smyth:

Except this case.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

Other than through the petitioner, yes.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I just wanted Mr. Vaughan to clarify that.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The petitioner went further than the 100,000 houses. He suggested that with the dead-leg part, about which we talked earlier, in the hot tank, it could potentially be more than 300,000 houses. I do not know because, as I said, I am not an expect. I would have presumed that if somebody flagged a potential issue - the argument is the same with others - somebody needs to do an audit by checking a number of the estates the petitioner has spoken about in his letters to the committee to see whether it is an issue and then one would have some idea. The petitioner made the point that there is a number of estates in an area in Meath that had the problems identified by him. I presume that is where he works or worked, and that he came across shoddy workmanship. That is often the way one identifies the likes of a fire hazard or, in this case, a potential health hazard. If that is the case, then somebody needs to conduct an audit of those houses and also flag to other plumbers that if they identify this problem when doing work on heating systems throughout the country, they should fix it but refer it to the authorities so that we can audit the rest of the estates concerned. If a plumber walks into a house in an estate in County Kildare and identifies that nobody has been near the heating system since it was built but there is a problem, that person should inform somebody that there may be a problem in the estate, especially if, potentially, it is of a public health nature.

As I said in regard to other matters, some of it would involve an audit and some of it would involve inspections. Since the inspections we are talking about are for future builds, somebody somewhere has to look at the existing houses otherwise one will end up with what we have in Dublin with the lead pipes that I mentioned. The house that I moved out of had lead pipes which had swollen to three times the size. That was the nature of all of the Dublin City Council houses. I do not know whether it was a major health hazard but, as far as I know, lead in water is a health hazard. Maybe drinking that water is why I am a bit mad. It is something that Irish Water has identified in its documentation to date. It has not come up with a solution other than that the householder will fix that part.

Ms Sarah Neary:

There is a strategy for lead piping in plumbing systems and that is being implemented. There is a process in place for that.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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We had better not diverge too much.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Hopefully, the new owner will benefit.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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On a point I wanted to raise with the Department, Ms Neary referenced the RGII and the gas boiler installation. Quite a while back, a case was referred to in the Dáil where more than 100,000 gas boilers were found to have been installed illegally. That was in a sector which the Department has referenced as being quite regulated and where the standards have been reached. It was said the plumbing arena is not yet at that level. It was mentioned earlier that we are not quite at that high standard in regard to plumbing. If we found that in a so-called regulated area, is there the potential, as the petitioner has instanced, that we may have a problem in the plumbing area as well? Is there any way we would know?

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

The Acting Chairman is comparing apples and oranges. In the case of that problem with boilers, which is a regulated area, there is a regulator in place, the Commission for Energy Regulation, which can deal with problems in that area. Whatever is the appropriate response, one looks to the Commission for Energy Regulation for that.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I suppose I am pointing to the use of the regulation. At least, the regulation in that scenario has pointed up a big problem in that area. We could potentially have a similar problem in the plumbing area but, because of the lack of regulation, we will not know. Is that the point?

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

Absolutely. That is also a hypothetical thesis. We can only respond to evidence-based analysis and we can only progress regulation on that basis.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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That type of evidence is not being collected and we have no mechanism to collect that type of data at present.

Mr. Martin Vaughan:

It definitely has not been collected or presented to us.

Ms Sarah Neary:

To clarify, we are from the architectural and building standards unit.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate that.

Ms Sarah Neary:

We would not have that information in terms of gas boilers or such water supply plumbing statistics. There may be others to whom the committee needs to talk.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I am trying to surmise that even from the point of view of water, which we are looking at here, we do not seem to have such a regulatory regime where that type of issue would be picked up on.

Ms Sarah Neary:

The water supply is, and has been, regulated. There is a Water Services Act. It apportions the responsibility to persons in terms of ensuring that the water supply is not contaminated, misused, unduly leaked, etc., and we have a national authority for it. It is important to remember that there are a lot of structures in place.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Nobody from the local authority or Irish Water has checked my radiator and water systems internally. It would be up to me to bring somebody in to look at my system to check whether this type of non-return valve issue is in my house.

Ms Sarah Neary:

I suppose where the inspectorate comes in is that one may get one's water tested at some point in time and domestic systems do get tested.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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That would be testing a sample of the water.

Ms Sarah Neary:

Yes.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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However, the onus is on the owner to check whether the system has been installed properly?

Ms Sarah Neary:

The risk is the contamination end and the water supply is the-----

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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The onus on the owner of the house to check.

Ms Sarah Neary:

Yes.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I merely wanted to be clear. Would any of the witnesses like to add anything or are they happy enough?

On behalf of the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions, I thank the witnesses for attending today and for engaging with the committee on this issue.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.50 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Wednesday, 14 October 2015.