Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 27 January 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation

Entrepreneurship and Related Issues: Irish Exporters Association

1:35 pm

Ms Nicola Byrne:

I shall answer the questions in a different order by first dealing with the query on capital gains tax.

In terms of capital gains tax, it was assumed that entrepreneurs earn enough to pay the tax. One cannot make that assumption because 50% of entrepreneurs here barely cover salaries for their organisations and capital gains tax is not the place to start to provide help. The assumption relates to the old myth that entrepreneurs make so much money that they can afford to pay capital gains tax. One does not have to separate taxes between speculation and employment. A problem will not arise because there are so few entrepreneurs in that bracket. The big four accountancy firms can fix it for the Government but in the real world all the small accountants prepare accounts for small businesses.

I suggest help is provided by way of tax in the PAYE system. I also suggest giving an employee grant for every employee taken on which might allow an entrepreneur to pay oneself. Typically, an entrepreneur pays everybody else first and themselves last. The chance of earning enough to pay capital gains tax is low. By the time one has paid back a bank loan, paid PAYE, and paid employer's PRSI and everything else on top of that there is nothing left to pay capital gains tax on.

If the Deputy was referring to large entrepreneurs that employ 150 people or more and make money - which are few and far between in this country - then I would say, "Fine, you are in the right bracket". For the entrepreneurs that I am talking about, very few of them will make it into that bracket.

The definition of technology is too narrow. Government policy says we cannot attract jobs but it should dig down to what those jobs actually are. I reside in EastPoint Business Park and can see every multinational around me. I work in the heartland of Enterprise Ireland, which is located in the midst of all of its employers, and know there are not too many female coders even in such a place. For the ones that are there, the definition of technology has become so narrow and comes down to coding. It means that all the ancillary skills that I would deem to be technology have been written off into some other category as marketing, branding, public relations or whatever. The definition of technology is too narrow and is the Government's mistake in terms of future jobs.

The next item is 24-hour child care and supports. The problem with Ireland is that we have a very small population. Before I came in here I read in a newspaper that Ireland has one of the highest fertility rates in Europe at 1.99 and that Germany's fertility rate has hit 1.6 or 1.4 but is declining even though it has one of the best child care systems around. The issue is a tiny bit more complex. The fairest way is to sort it out at each family's level. Everyone's circumstances are unique so it would be fairer to give people the money and let them decide what kind of child care suits them best. It comes back to giving help to the individual at source.

Ireland's small economy would not suit a one size fits all child care system. It would not suit the small business owner in Tullow who has no child care facility available. It would also be unfair to say that someone like me, who lives in a large urban area, has a choice of child care. One must bring the measure right back down to the individual. It would not be difficult to link child care provision with maternity leave. In this country once a birth is registered one is sent the children's allowance so everything is connected. There is nothing to stop the Government saying: "We know a child has been registered because we have sent social welfare and children's allowance." There is nothing to stop the Government linking a child care payment because it knows that a person with a child needs to care for it. If I can prove I employ people then the Government may be able to increase the allowances thereafter. If a payment is given at source then a person can choose how to handle child care. The Government would not be giving me money for nothing; it would be giving me money because I can prove that I want to create jobs and to employ people.

We must dispense with the mentality that entrepreneurs avoid tax, live in the black economy and do not do anything. There is a professional category of entrepreneurs. Whether they are sole traders moving into creating employment or not, it is easy to find out the information, particularly for female entrepreneurs. The Government will know when a female entrepreneur has a baby so it is not difficult to follow the system along. The system is well capable of doing so at this point with the technology that is in place throughout government and it is not a mystery.

The other queries were covered by Mr. Kelly.