Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

I will begin with the issue of the deficit, which is perhaps not the most appropriate word. It was not a case of us inheriting debt, but clearly in certain areas the amount of expenditure and commitments did not match the budget we have been allocated. This was most obvious in legal services where expenditure in 2013 when it was not within our control was approximately €34 million and the budget allocated to us was €17 million. As Deputy Troy rightly stated, there is clearly room for reform within that figure, but it is extremely difficult to do straight away.
In addition we have been unable to find all the productivity gains that were sought under the Haddington Road agreement and we have asked to see the workings for how they came to the calculations for deductions from our budget. Additional hours have been worked right across the board, but translating that into a saving has not been straightforward without, for example, reducing the social work workforce by in excess of 70 posts. Given the pressures on it, that has not been done and we have not always been successful at finding alternative savings.
Those were the main issues of pressure we inherited as well as the regular ones across Ireland in many services such as demography. Clearly in the difficult circumstances Ireland has faced I do not expect demography automatically to lead to an increase - it would be the same in education and in health - but it cannot be ignored. The Chairman has referred to the increased number of children in care. That has come at a cost over the past five years of €26 million. Half of that would relate directly to a demographic uplift. We wish to pay for these foster carers. It is the right thing to do to take the services forward and we need to find that money from somewhere. However, account should be taken of it when budgets are being reviewed. That was the starting point.
The transfer of staff happened smoothly. One or two ends remain to be tied up in our relationship with the HSE, but it is far from the case that we have an excess of administrative staff. Eventually the director of finance will be asked to produce reports - we are heading in that direction - through which we will be able to look at costs of each activity and what I call the corporate overhead, including non-productive things such as a chief executive and administrative support. I fully expect ours to be among the very lowest in Ireland. We have very few administrative staff and their contribution is greatly appreciated. While in Galway recently I met a colleague who is on grade 3 and has a 16-hour contract. She supported three or four separate social work teams and did a magnificent job. We are stretched there. Sometimes not having the right support for social work, educational welfare or other professional colleagues can lead to a loss of productivity.
A number of members raised the issue of legal fees which we have been working hard to address. The HSE is also reforming its system. We have restricted to the stage that the use of counsel in District Court cases is almost non-existent, which should not have been necessary, and we have had a huge reduction there. We have greatly reduced and control the number of people, whom we call legal service users, who can instruct. I can give Deputy Ó Caoláin an example of training. There is detailed training to be in court. An inexperienced social worker can find some of Ireland's judges a daunting experience. One study showed that only in 8% of cases were there more witnesses than the social worker. There is considerable scrutiny on individual young professionals, and rightly so because these are important decisions.
Of the €34 million, €12 million is spent on guardians ad litem, including their legal cost. I will ask Ms Eibhlin Byrne to comment further shortly. Given that an important part of their job is scrutiny for us, it is not a matter we can control. If that amount of money is taken out, we can see how little is left. I fully expect and have as a target to reduce that expenditure year on year. We have done so this year, but it will not show up immediately because we have also inherited a number of historical bills, particularly from counsel that had gone back and forth. The Child and Family Agency Act made clear that we were responsible for all previous liabilities.
We have made a good start to multi-agency working. I make no apology for stressing it to this committee because it needs the scrutiny of the committee. At a time of scant resources people can retreat into their professional silos and leave a gap. We provide a welfare system. A mental illness system begins at another point. We must design systems to ensure there are overlaps.
All the staff, as envisaged in the first phase responding to the task force report, came across, with some discussions still continuing on the area of psychology which will be concluded shortly. The Government indicated at that point that it would give its response to the rest of the task force in due course, involving public health nurses, speech and language therapists and others. That is a matter for the Minister and the Department.
A number of members asked about early years. The progress has been slow at points, which is a function of the resources we have available. However, reports are now available online. On staff to full complement, an additional six posts are being added as we speak, with an additional four managers, and run on a national basis so we can respond to inconsistencies and gaps.

The average time between inspections was acceptable but there were far too many outliers such that the early years service had been a Cinderella service within the HSE.

While I defend the skills and qualities of public health nurses and recognise they have a considerable background in child development and an important role to play, I accept we need to move beyond the Labour Court ruling and have a more multidisciplinary force. As in many countries, the early years sector, covering the years from birth to six, is an emerging and maturing one. The range of people with appropriate skills and qualifications is just coming forward and I expect it to grow.

It is very important to emphasise that we have only one contribution to make to this. There is a lot of work going on but we are not the lead agency. We are not an improvement service but the regulator. We need to make sure we are carrying out our role in a responsible and timely way.

Deputy Ó Caoláin should note that we are certainly aware of social work training and the importance of continuing professional development. We have had discussions with CORU and will shortly be publishing a continuing professional development strategy to ensure all colleagues are aware of their responsibilities and stay up to date. We are providing opportunities for them. We have a training service that is run on a national basis, and courses are being made available to ensure there is equitable access. In a time of recession, training can get squeezed so we need to move towards our protected budget. However, there will be an annual training plan on which we need to be held to account.

I confirm that it remains national policy for any child in care to be allocated a social worker. I hope the committee will sense my unease over having the Minister quoted to me so regularly this morning. He said something recently of which the committee is aware and I am not. We will leave that to one side.