Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I remind members, witnesses and those present in the Gallery to ensure their mobile telephones are switched off for the duration of the meeting as they interfere with the broadcasting of our proceedings.

Today's meeting is our first formal and official engagement with Mr. Gordon Jeyes in his capacity as chief executive of the Child and Family Agency. I thank Mr. Jeyes for his engagement with the joint committee on previous occasions. He has always made himself available to meet the committee for thorough engagements. We look forward to hearing his report on the work being undertaken by the Child and Family Agency since its establishment. I thank him and his staff for the work they are doing in this exciting and challenging period and ask him to convey to the staff of the agency the immense gratitude of members for the work they do on behalf of young people. I also welcome Mr. Jeyes's colleagues, Mr. Fred McBride, chief operating officer, Mr. Pat Smyth, director of finance, Ms Eibhlin Byrne, executive manager, and Mr. Stephen Eglington from the advisory group for aftercare leavers. I thank the witnesses for facilitating the change in time for the meeting.

Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give the committee. If, however, they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of a long-standing parliamentary practice and ruling of the Chair to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or any official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Jeyes to make his opening statement.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

I thank the Chairman and members for giving us an opportunity to update the joint committee on the progress achieved by Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, in its first nine months. The Chairman has already introduced my colleagues who will respond in the event that there are any difficult questions. I intend to act out of character and keep my presentation brief. I have tried to highlight each of the issues in which members will be interested in order that they can question us further. Additional information has been made available in appendices.

Tusla was born on 1 January 2014. It is the first agency solely dedicated to the welfare, protection and nurture of Ireland’s children, particularly the most vulnerable. Among other things, this has greatly enhanced the transparency of taxpayer investment in services for vulnerable children and those in need of care and protection. A copy of our summary budget is included in appendix I which, among other things, illustrates how inflexible our budget is, an issue we may explore presently. The summary budget document is accompanied by details of our principal service activity and I have also included a summary of our business plan and progress to date. My colleagues will be pleased to update or clarify any matters arising in this regard. We have also provided an overview of monthly national performance activity as at July last.

It was essential that we established a body that is responsive and inclusive. In saying this, I note that much of the activity in the initial business plan has focused on ensuring we establish reliable routines. We are a start-up organisation in a difficult period for a country. Our focus, therefore, is on key elements of service to ensure we work efficiently and effectively. In addition, work has continued to reform and improves services, building on initiatives in family resource centres, educational welfare services and, specifically, on streamlining our service delivery and emphasising prevention, diversion and building on the strengths of families.

Tusla has been created in the demanding circumstances of increased requests for services, budget restrictions and recruitment constraint. In the face of austerity, it would be easy to be complacent, blame any inaction on limited resources and adopt the position that we are doing okay in the circumstances. We refuse to settle for such an approach. In the face of austerity, services are improving and have become more accountable and consistent across the country. Lessons from the past have been learned and we are providing an increasingly accountable, consistent and transparent service.

Appendix V is a summary of comments made in recent inspections carried out by the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA. These show increasing evidence of a service which is improving. While much has been done, much remains to be done. The comments also show an increased clarity of purpose, a sense that there is a plan and a determination to do the best for Ireland’s children. It is important to remember that children are not at risk because they are in the care of the State. Children are placed in the care of the State because they are at risk. It is also interesting to note two major concerns expressed by HIQA. On the first, the impact of maternity cover, following an agreement with trade unions, we are introducing a pool to cover maternity leave. Cover will be provided immediately as a consequence of Government investment. In response to a second concern raised by HIQA, colleagues in the Garda Síochána and Health Service Executive will have 24-7 access to information on children who are in the child protection notification system.

Failure to share information is often quoted as a weakness when children are let down by the child protection system. A consistent approach to child protection is essential. Information will be shared. In addition, emergency place-of-safety arrangements are working well and now will be augmented by a duty out-of-hours system. Communication has improved, and through newsletters, website and training, best practice is identified and shared and practice improved.
Other specific improvements in 2014 include a full review of domestic sexual and gender-based violence services because this is the first time all of those services would be under the one authority - there was a set of funders within the previous health service arrangements. A roadmap is being developed for these services so that the pernicious effects of domestic violence are everybody's responsibility and specialised services for responding to sexual violence are enhanced. In addition, family support and family resource centres have been integrated within our working at local level and new synergies have been created within our local area pathways. Teams around the child and the family have been created and are increasingly effective - the meitheal. Information is a key requirement in child protection and we are setting up the national child care information system, which is in the last stages of user-acceptance testing. On improvements, finally, educational welfare is a constituent part of the service delivery and as the committee will see later, we view education as a key component in improving young people's life chances and opportunities. Work continues to improve attendance, participation and retention and align these functions to other agency work. School attendance guidelines have been developed to underpin this and work continues on the assessment of and support for education in places other than recognised schools, including at home.
We must act, first, with accountability, across the country. As I speak to partners, including the courts system, it is clear that there is a straight line of management and lines of accountability. National policy is discussed, best practice identified and consistency increased. Staff are clear about their responsibilities and held to that, and we produce monthly information relating to HR, finance and service delivery.
To enhance accountability further, we need to review the funding distribution which can look inconsistent and to develop local partnerships within children services committees. We have a joint protocol for services with primary care, health and well-being, mental health and services for children affected by disability, but that needs to be strengthened. Children suffer where there are gaps. As part of the aspiration to be a responsive service, there is a need to learn more from those who complain and for us to do better in responding within agreed timeframes. We are improving, but have more to do. Mechanisms need to be developed in order that the services Tusla shares with the HSE are accountable and recognise Tusla as an independent agency with separate legal status.
The service delivery framework is being rolled out across the country. Areas have developed multidisciplinary teams around the child emphasising early intervention and partnership working. Most teams now have a dedicated front door, duty and intake service with response times greatly reduced, and continuity of service enhanced. Children First arrangements have been strengthened through the child welfare and protection handbook and we have just issued additional guidance relating to the difficult area of section 3 cases where the alleged abuse is extra-familial. An alternative care handbook, also sharing best Irish practice, has been finalised and will be published shortly, and strong aftercare arrangements are being consolidated. Early years inspection now runs on a national basis, and the workforce has been enhanced and there is a guarantee of a full inspection at least every three years. Within the early years inspectorate, a system of registration is being implemented to replace the previous practice of notification and in partnership with others, because we do not have sole responsibility here, the emphasis is on child development as well as ensuring a safe environment.
For adoption services, which we now run on a national basis, within the limited resources, we are making progress on the difficult backlogs of information and tracing and record management.
There has been considerable progress in special care and, as befits a multidisciplinary agency, evidence of that is included, as appendix VI of the presentation, following the newly released junior and leaving certificate results achieved by some of Ireland's most vulnerable children. These are at-risk children who have been taken into our care on a secure basis because of the way in which they were leading their life. Through careful nurture and partnership work with education, they have achieved junior certificate results and, perhaps more importantly, leave care with a good attitude to education and learning. Nearly 98% of six to 16 year old children in care and nearly 90% of 17 year old children in care are in full-time education; both figures represent an increase. An extremely impressive 60% of young people who have left care are in full-time third level education. Some 56%, or 474, of young persons over 18 years are still living in State-sponsored and commissioned arrangements with their excellent foster carers. The equivalent figure in England, where care arrangements stop at age 16, is 3%. Further development is required to build on this strength, finalising national aftercare standards, foster care support and commissioning arrangements.
In the face of a dynamic and well-planned reform agenda, there are four particular challenges that inhibit the more effective development of Ireland's aspiration for a full range of services for children. The first is a sustainable budget. Current budget pressures prevent staffing services reaching full complement and that inhibits service effectiveness despite strong and effective arrangements to prioritise the most important and the most urgent. Any analysis of HIQA and Ombudsman reports note that the concerns relate to resource or recruitment deficits. My point in raising this is that all budgets have consequences. We will deliver services for the taxpayer for the resource available.
Cost-effective support in partnership with HSE is also important. Tusla would support going further than merely shared services, but to the development of an internal market, so that services relating to finance, HR, estates, ICT and other support are provided on a cost-effective basis and are responsive to a different range of customers. As reform is completed, Tusla, the community health trusts, hospital trusts and others should each have a shareholding in support services and a monetary value should be given to each shareholding with a view to enhancing the customer experience. For Tusla, a relatively small State body compared with the HSE, to have a shared service only with the HSE is not a balanced partnership and is difficult to operate.
There can be little doubt that the current time and money spent on legal matters is neither sustainable nor in children's and parents' best interests. Tusla has embarked on a comprehensive and ongoing process of reform. Significant attention has been given to increasing our credibility in providing evidence and enable effective and timely judicial decisions. Training has been increased and new court reporting forms for social work colleagues introduced.
There is detailed oversight of legal budgets since we took it over on 1 January, with a significant reduction in those authorised to engage legal services. Further reforms are required to move towards greater use of mediation, reform of the important guardian ad litemsystem and a further review of the way in which we use legal services.
We need to see regulation and registration for the guardians ad litem.

The practice of representation of guardians ad litemat both solicitor and counsel level raises questions regarding the use of legal representation in court by expert witnesses who are there to support the court's work.
There is a need to development mediation services and processes. Increasingly legalistic proceedings at District Court level can result in significant delays as points of law are considered. Repeated short-term care orders are not conducive to providing stability for children. Often, paradoxically, they are not fair to parents.
From my experience, having worked in children's services in three jurisdictions, services for children are all too often organised within lines of professional demarcation rather than the needs of children. This is not in the best interests of children. Children’s education, health and welfare needs are intensely inter-related. Consequently, effective multi-agency work is crucial and requires scrutiny, support and insistence.
The common theme in all of the serious case reviews of the past ten years has been a lack of joined-up strategy and integrated implementation. There is a new joint protocol between key HSE services, primary care, services for children affected by disability and mental health issues and the Child and Family Agency. This protocol needs to be strengthened and great care must be taken to ensure that parallel reforms remain complementary. If reforms are not synchronised, there is a danger of reinforcing significant service gaps. In such territory, tragedy can occur.
I was going to leave a blank conclusion, because I felt that was more a matter for the committee, but I will add this. We are realistic and recognise that the pace of reform has been inhibited by the dictates of austerity. The fragility of the agency, having been born in such difficult circumstances, is a consequence of its establishment at a time of severe restrictions on the public purse. Despite all the pressures, there is enthusiasm, commitment and initiative. There is a plan.Staff deserve great credit for what has been achieved and I thank the Chairman for his opening remarks in that regard. The issue now is to complete the task, support the commitment and ensure that reform is consolidated and sustained.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Mr. Jeyes and his colleagues to this meeting. He spoke about a sustainable budget and the implications of the current budget on the provision of services. Will he confirm for us what the carry-over deficit was when the new agency was established on 1 January this year? In regard to the transfer of staff from the HSE to Tusla, will he confirm that appropriate and necessary staff were transferred and that it does not have an excess of administrative staff to the detriment of staff of front-line services, such as social workers?
Mr. Jeyes mentioned the issue of legal fees. The legal fees that have been incurred by this section within the HSE previously are nothing short of scandalous. We read a report in The Sunday Business Posttwo or more years ago which indicated that in one year the legal fees broke the €30 million ceiling. What steps have been taken to reduce these fees and has there been a downward trajectory in fees over the past number of years which indicates that progress is being made and fees are decreasing steadily?
Mr. Jeyes spoke about multi-agency work and the new joint protocol between key HSE services, but says this needs to be strengthened and care needs to be taken to ensure parallel reforms remain complementary. When Tusla was established, two of the key areas that the task force recommended be under the control of the agency were public health nurses and child and adult mental health. We should have robust protocols in place at this stage for these areas. Mr. Jeyes has said that without this, there is a danger of reinforcing significant service gaps. I would think that given the recommendation that these areas should come under the remit of the agency from the start, a robust protocol would be in place by now. Has there been any consultation with the Department of Health and Children in regard to moving these areas over to the Child and Family Agency as recommended?
On the issue of early years education and care, we are all aware of the RTE programme "A Breach of Trust," which was broadcast over a year ago. Reform has been disappointingly slow. I do not know who set the timeframes, but targets set by the Child and Family Agency or the Department have not been met. One of the recommendations was that all areas of the country should have an inspector, but has that happened? The agency continues to employ public health nurses to act as inspectors. Why is that, considering the recommendation that professionals from the early childhood care sector should be able to apply for these positions? Some Labour Court ruling is often cited as the reason they cannot apply. Will Mr. Jeyes provide that Labour Court ruling?
The new standards due to be published this summer still have not been published. Where are they? In April 2014, Tusla committed to a consultation process on the new registration process, but that has yet to happen. Why is that? I raised the matter of the provision of SNAs with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Reilly, this morning. The primary responsibility to ensure children with special educational needs get the necessary supports to get to preschool and be included in the system with all other children remains with the HSE. Can the witnesses confirm that is the case? What has the agency done to ensure the necessary supports are put in place and to ensure a uniform approach throughout the country? The current approach to SNA provision is piecemeal, and provision all depends on where a preschool is located.
I will leave issues such as the lack of social workers to other colleagues to highlight, although I raised the issue with the Minister this morning.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an fhoireann ó Tusla. I welcome the team from Tusla. In his presentation, Mr. Jeyes referred to increased training for social workers. What is the training budget? It is vital training is an integral part of the process. Social work is a registered profession and, as a consequence, social workers are required to continually engage in professional training and development.

In light of staff shortages, what is Tusla doing to ensure social workers have access to appropriate training and can develop their skills in-house and externally?
Deputy Troy made reference to the fact that we had engagement with the Minister this morning in the Dáil Chamber. Can Mr. Jeyes confirm that it remains national policy to ensure that every child in care has an allocated social worker? The allocation of a social worker is an entitlement provided under the Child Care Act 1991. This morning the Minister, in response to this team of Deputies, talked about high priority items or must-get items, and low priority items - he left the matter hanging - which we can do without. I would like to know, definitively, that the policy I understood to be a national policy remains in situand there is a commitment by the services to adhere to same.
I understand the financial pressures but I hope they are not resulting in prioritisation of the allocation of social workers. The Minister referenced high-priority and low-priority items. Children in care, because they are in care, need a designated social worker. It is not the case that there will be some who are more deserving or more in need. They are all in need of a designated social worker, in my opinion. There is more than anecdotal evidence that some children in long-term foster care are not being assigned a social worker. I have also heard of foster families not being provided with a link worker. Has there been a change in national policy on this issue? I am accepting of budgetary challenges, and the chief executive gave voice to that himself.
I particularly welcome Mr. Eglington here today. I ask Mr. Jeyes to comment on the progress of the full roll-out and implementation of the national policy on leaving and aftercare. Specifically, I ask him to comment on whether aftercare has a ring-fenced budget and whether the resources available are adequate to ensure implementation of national policy.
Let us look at the statistics on social workers. Over the past eight to nine years the number of children in State care has increased by over 20% and the number of referrals to social work services has almost doubled. Despite what the Minister again said this morning on the floor of the Dáil Chamber, the reality is that the number of social workers dealing with child protection and welfare has remained largely static. It is all right to say "We have recruited X," but there are departures too. On examination of the figures, the real position is that the numbers have remained largely static over that period. We have been told there are 9,000 cases awaiting the allocation of a social worker, and that Tusla services, as the chief executive indicated in his address, are operating with only 70% of its ideal workforce numbers. How are Tusla social workers coping with the significant increase in their workloads? What assurances can Mr. Jeyes give the committee that children and their families are receiving an adequate service? It may be difficult for him to answer my questions, and I understand if he cannot. I am mindful of Tusla's statement yesterday on the report prepared by the Ombudsman for Children about an allegation of abuse at a school in County Kilkenny. Can the chief executive advise the committee how speedily Tusla will be in a position to address that issue? It is an historic issue but it has clear contemporary overtones. The limited commentary that is in the public domain does not satisfy one's concern about the matter. I would like to know, based on the report prepared by the former Ombudsman for Children, Ms Emily Logan, how quickly he would hope to address the issues concerned. Where does he believe the fault lay in cases that Ms Logan said were "not properly investigated"? Who had responsibility for it at the time? At whom is she pointing the finger of accusation?
My last couple of questions are on direct provision. If the chief executive cannot offer information on it this morning then I ask him to furnish us with it later. Like all Members here, I am very concerned about the circumstances for people who are in what are described as direct provision centres for asylum seekers. I am particularly concerned about children in these centres who have known, in their memory, no other reality than years of domicile in these particular circumstances. Can the chief executive advise us of the number of child protection teams in direct provision centres? What are Tusla's role and responsibilities towards children in such a setting?
Lastly, can Mr. Jeyes advise us on the requirement for all child care workers to be qualified at least to FETAC level 5 by September of next year? What will happen to people who are already employed in child care and have enrolled in FETAC courses but will not have completed the FETAC level 5 course by September of next year? Will there be a period of grace to allow them to complete their qualification and continue on their career path? I thank Mr. Jeyes for his attention.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I thank Mr. Jeyes for his presentation and welcome everybody here this morning.
I have a number of questions on guardians ad litem, or GALs. Mr. Jeyes mentioned in his presentation that GALs instruct solicitors and barristers. I seek clarification on whether Tusla ends up paying those bills.
We have had discussions here before on reforming the GAL system and looked at other models of practice. The matter has also come up from time to time in the Chamber. When child protection services were hosted in the HSE - Deputies here will be familiar with the matter - when one met one's local area manager it was a case of closing long-term beds in a community hospital versus paying the legal bills. With the establishment of the new agency, such choices no longer exist for community care local representatives. However, a balance must be struck in terms of vindication of a child's rights and who is paying for it. Who are the guardians ad litem? Are they professionally qualified? Why do they need additional legal support? The legal costs are astronomical. What purpose do they serve? If we are taking away vital services for vulnerable children just to pay legal costs then we must tackle the issue.
Where are we in terms of inspections of preschools following the "Prime Time" exposé? We got figures here before the summer demonstrating that people were still not in post or there was a shortage of inspectors. HIQA has a small number of inspectors in comparison with Tusla's inspectors for preschool services. How efficiently are inspection resources being used?

There are large areas that are not getting the same level of inspection as others and the children are losing out.

I ask Mr. Jeyes to talk about the risk with the 9,000 cases that are awaiting allocation. What kinds of cases are involved? Are they high risk or low risk? Have they been assessed in any way? I am concerned that if we have 9,000 people on a waiting list, what kind of a list are talking about? Where, geographically, are these cases? Where are the bottlenecks? In what geographical areas are the resources lacking? I have a sense that some parts of the country may not be under as much pressure as other parts, given the population spread throughout the country.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I apologise that I had to go to the Seanad for a vote. I have a question on children who are getting caught having fallen out of the school system, including even the primary school system. I am involved with a centre that is looking after 30 young people at the moment. The Department of Education and Skills has advised me that it is not its responsibility. I accept we are dealing with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs on the matter at the moment. We had the strange situation that one of the religious orders was providing €90,000 a year to run the centre. It can no longer provide that funding. The response from the Department of Education and Skills was that while it was regrettable, these 30 children would now have to go back to the schools from which they came. The problem is that those schools do not want them back and we are falling between two stools on the matter.

Someone in the private sector is willing to put up 50% of the funding to continue running the facility and everyone else is running away from it. These 30 children would be on the streets only for this facility. Eleven of the 30 children sat their junior certificate examinations this year. Some of these children were referred to the centre by the school attendance officers because they were not fitting into the educational structure.

How can we deal with that scenario? We are just going day to day trying to keep the centre open. We have about 60 people working voluntarily, all of them qualified teachers, and we are providing what is almost one-to-one education. The Department has claimed it is not its responsibility and, as a result, 30 people may well fall out of the system completely. How does Tusla deal with that kind of scenario?

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

I will begin with the issue of the deficit, which is perhaps not the most appropriate word. It was not a case of us inheriting debt, but clearly in certain areas the amount of expenditure and commitments did not match the budget we have been allocated. This was most obvious in legal services where expenditure in 2013 when it was not within our control was approximately €34 million and the budget allocated to us was €17 million. As Deputy Troy rightly stated, there is clearly room for reform within that figure, but it is extremely difficult to do straight away.
In addition we have been unable to find all the productivity gains that were sought under the Haddington Road agreement and we have asked to see the workings for how they came to the calculations for deductions from our budget. Additional hours have been worked right across the board, but translating that into a saving has not been straightforward without, for example, reducing the social work workforce by in excess of 70 posts. Given the pressures on it, that has not been done and we have not always been successful at finding alternative savings.
Those were the main issues of pressure we inherited as well as the regular ones across Ireland in many services such as demography. Clearly in the difficult circumstances Ireland has faced I do not expect demography automatically to lead to an increase - it would be the same in education and in health - but it cannot be ignored. The Chairman has referred to the increased number of children in care. That has come at a cost over the past five years of €26 million. Half of that would relate directly to a demographic uplift. We wish to pay for these foster carers. It is the right thing to do to take the services forward and we need to find that money from somewhere. However, account should be taken of it when budgets are being reviewed. That was the starting point.
The transfer of staff happened smoothly. One or two ends remain to be tied up in our relationship with the HSE, but it is far from the case that we have an excess of administrative staff. Eventually the director of finance will be asked to produce reports - we are heading in that direction - through which we will be able to look at costs of each activity and what I call the corporate overhead, including non-productive things such as a chief executive and administrative support. I fully expect ours to be among the very lowest in Ireland. We have very few administrative staff and their contribution is greatly appreciated. While in Galway recently I met a colleague who is on grade 3 and has a 16-hour contract. She supported three or four separate social work teams and did a magnificent job. We are stretched there. Sometimes not having the right support for social work, educational welfare or other professional colleagues can lead to a loss of productivity.
A number of members raised the issue of legal fees which we have been working hard to address. The HSE is also reforming its system. We have restricted to the stage that the use of counsel in District Court cases is almost non-existent, which should not have been necessary, and we have had a huge reduction there. We have greatly reduced and control the number of people, whom we call legal service users, who can instruct. I can give Deputy Ó Caoláin an example of training. There is detailed training to be in court. An inexperienced social worker can find some of Ireland's judges a daunting experience. One study showed that only in 8% of cases were there more witnesses than the social worker. There is considerable scrutiny on individual young professionals, and rightly so because these are important decisions.
Of the €34 million, €12 million is spent on guardians ad litem, including their legal cost. I will ask Ms Eibhlin Byrne to comment further shortly. Given that an important part of their job is scrutiny for us, it is not a matter we can control. If that amount of money is taken out, we can see how little is left. I fully expect and have as a target to reduce that expenditure year on year. We have done so this year, but it will not show up immediately because we have also inherited a number of historical bills, particularly from counsel that had gone back and forth. The Child and Family Agency Act made clear that we were responsible for all previous liabilities.
We have made a good start to multi-agency working. I make no apology for stressing it to this committee because it needs the scrutiny of the committee. At a time of scant resources people can retreat into their professional silos and leave a gap. We provide a welfare system. A mental illness system begins at another point. We must design systems to ensure there are overlaps.
All the staff, as envisaged in the first phase responding to the task force report, came across, with some discussions still continuing on the area of psychology which will be concluded shortly. The Government indicated at that point that it would give its response to the rest of the task force in due course, involving public health nurses, speech and language therapists and others. That is a matter for the Minister and the Department.
A number of members asked about early years. The progress has been slow at points, which is a function of the resources we have available. However, reports are now available online. On staff to full complement, an additional six posts are being added as we speak, with an additional four managers, and run on a national basis so we can respond to inconsistencies and gaps.

The average time between inspections was acceptable but there were far too many outliers such that the early years service had been a Cinderella service within the HSE.

While I defend the skills and qualities of public health nurses and recognise they have a considerable background in child development and an important role to play, I accept we need to move beyond the Labour Court ruling and have a more multidisciplinary force. As in many countries, the early years sector, covering the years from birth to six, is an emerging and maturing one. The range of people with appropriate skills and qualifications is just coming forward and I expect it to grow.

It is very important to emphasise that we have only one contribution to make to this. There is a lot of work going on but we are not the lead agency. We are not an improvement service but the regulator. We need to make sure we are carrying out our role in a responsible and timely way.

Deputy Ó Caoláin should note that we are certainly aware of social work training and the importance of continuing professional development. We have had discussions with CORU and will shortly be publishing a continuing professional development strategy to ensure all colleagues are aware of their responsibilities and stay up to date. We are providing opportunities for them. We have a training service that is run on a national basis, and courses are being made available to ensure there is equitable access. In a time of recession, training can get squeezed so we need to move towards our protected budget. However, there will be an annual training plan on which we need to be held to account.

I confirm that it remains national policy for any child in care to be allocated a social worker. I hope the committee will sense my unease over having the Minister quoted to me so regularly this morning. He said something recently of which the committee is aware and I am not. We will leave that to one side.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has had the benefit of having questioned the Minister in the Dáil Chamber at 9.30 a.m., thus facilitating him.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

I just feel there is some triangulation going on here. Let me just check with the Minister. There is a longer debate to be had.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We just want Mr. Jeyes to be on the same page as us.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That might not necessarily be the right page to be on, of course.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

Let me just reflect on that. I am in the same place as Ireland's children, and for them I will continue to speak out. There is a longer debate to be had on prioritisation. Issues arise in this regard. There are children in stable foster care arrangements and all the evidence shows that loving boundaries are set. This occurs continually. There are link workers and the foster family has an allocated social worker. We know every relevant child should have a social worker allocated. That is the regulation. There is a longer debate to be had on how the regulation could be more nuanced, but the regulation is as it stands. There has even been a slight dip in the figure, and it is openly reported to the Deputies in the appendix. The difficulty can arise in turnover through posts changing and maternity leave. Not all benefit from an allocation all the time. We are adding to that in that I expect all children in the child protection notification system – this might be even more important – to have a social worker allocated. In most areas, that is the case. We will publish that as a statistic in due course.
We need to rethink some of our practice, even in terms of regulation, as to how we work with children who are in relative or kinship care. It is an important relationship and an important service, but it is different. Perhaps we should not have the same sorts of rules.
We did press the pause button on aftercare arrangements to make sure that what we were proposing was fair and equitable and not just focused on those for whom third level was suitable. The latter get a good range of options, but there are others who need educational opportunities of a more practical nature, and we must support them. Equally, we must not become a proxy service for health, education or housing. Rather, we must advocate on behalf of young people to ensure they are getting access to the benefits and supports they deserve. Our role is to prop up the system and ensure it is fair. It is true there will be a ring-fenced budget and I expect consistent arrangements to be implemented by early 2015. The ring-fenced budget will be in the order of €16 million, and I expect to grow that.
There has been an increase in the number of social workers. The Deputy is quite right that there is fluctuation at present, but that is after the increase of 220 following the Ryan report. Looking back five or six years, there will have been an increase of approximately 300 social workers. It is a question of the multidisciplinary nature of the service and not just about social workers.
I do not know where the figure of 70% came from. At any given time there are approximately 160 of 1,200 posts vacant. Some 50% of those vacancies are filled by agency staff because the pressures are too great. That has decreased recently because 38 of the maternity posts are being filled through substantive contracts because this is more efficient. We welcome the agreement with the unions on that.
I cannot comment on the Ombudsman for Children's report. It is important. There are important historical and cultural issues to be considered. I could not possibly offer a view on the reference to the matter not being properly investigated and on where the difference came from. It seems that issues of a physical nature arise and, therefore, it may have cultural significance. We only received the report in draft to comment on it at the same time as it went to the press, so it is as difficult for us to comment at the moment as it is for the members. It is being examined and we will treat it with due seriousness.
On direct provision, we have child protection responsibilities and hold child protection inquiries, and there is currently a HIQA investigation into the matter. The improvements for unaccompanied asylum seekers, the majority of whom go to foster carers on being received in the country, are to Ireland's credit. These asylum seekers are dispersed throughout the country and receive a good service. Children who are received with their parents and who enter direct provision are, perhaps rightly, receiving attention. It is a matter for the Government and the Dáil because there can be no more important issue than how a country defines and defends its boundaries. We will play our part within that guidance.
I invite Ms Eibhlin Byrne to make some comments about guardians ad litem. Following that, Mr. Fred McBride will talk about prioritisation and the 9,000 cases, as reported.

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

I share the concerns of Deputies regarding the legal system. Every euro we spend on legal costs is one euro less available to us to spend on children's services. None of us wants to spend less on them. The reality is that the current system is broken and becoming increasingly adversarial. In the absence of any mediation service, it is a very difficult space that is inhabited by children and families. Operating within that system are social workers and the guardians ad litem.
I will outline some of the steps we have taken. One must bear in mind that the court is not a place where young social workers are comfortable. For many of them, it is a very unpleasant place to work. We have tried to assist, first by producing a new court report which outlines more clearly for judges the background to the case and what we are recommending. Thus we are speaking the legal language required in a courtroom. We have offered training to social workers to assist them in court. We have reduced the number of legal service users authorised from more than 1,000 to fewer than 100, so people looking for legal services within our organisation are much more able to command such a service. We have developed an in-house team of solicitors to deal with some of the work ourselves.
We have spent €6.2 million on solicitors to June 2014. We have increased the competition by inviting in more firms. In the time of austerity, when property and other areas became less fashionable, quite a few solicitors decided child care was an interest for them. We are trying to control that market. Where there are specific issues such as the Brussels II regulation or adoption, we are using centralised services.
With regard to engaging counsel, which is a major cause of concern for us and which results in a very expensive legal fee, we spent €934,000 on counsel up to June 2014.

Only the chief executive or the executive manager can authorise counsel. To June this year we only engaged on 25 occasions with senior counsel and 50 occasions with junior counsel. These are largely either very complex cases or special care cases where we are taking a child into care and depriving them of liberty, meaning it is very important that all legal advice is sought.
The guardians ad litemoperate in that system and one must note there are some highly qualified, dedicated and devoted people working in that system; it is the system itself that is broken. To June this year, the cost of guardians ad litem was €3 million. That takes in expenditure for travel, time and professional fees. One must add to that €2.69 million for solicitor fees and €501,000 for senior counsel fees to June this year. Very often, guardians ad litemin cases are calling on solicitors and barristers, sometimes in contested cases and other times not. There are a number of issues with the guardian ad litem process. There are costs associated with the system, as well as the expert witnesses very often called by the guardians and the various alternative routes suggested to courts and accepted. All this adds, under section 47, to various elements which the agency is required to provide for the court.
It is a broken system which absolutely needs a complete overhaul. The entire legal system needs to be overhauled, as we need earlier intervention and mediation in order that many of the issues facing families can be dealt with before they ever come into court. Once the parties come to court, it is a lose-lose position for the child and parent. We need a less adversarial and a more consistent approach to our courts throughout the country and we need some kind of child advocate system to replace the current guardians ad litem. It is true that although Tusla is the paymaster of the guardians ad litem, they are appointed by the court and we are not really entitled to oversee them, although we have looked at some of the expenses. We cannot, for example, decide when a guardian ad litemis used, so a guardian ad litemfrom Donegal or Galway may be invited to take part in a Dublin court. We pay the expenses and other matters, but we do not have oversight. In general, there are many very dedicated people working in a system that is ultimately broken, and until the system is fixed, we will continue to pay legal fees.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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How likely is it that the system will be changed?

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

It will not happen until there is active engagement, as there must be a complete overhaul. We must examine mediation and how to keep issues out of court, as the court is no place for children and families to try to sort out family matters. Judges do their best but they cannot try to solve a life of problems in a couple of hours in a courtroom. The earlier we can have intervention and mediation, the better.
With regard to guardians ad litem, we need a child advocate system, although this cannot be entirely separate from the child protection and welfare system, as this can lead to an adversarial system with this process. We need to consider how to implement an advocate system within a mediation process and a properly run court system. The system must be overhauled.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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There was an allocation of €3 million last year for guardians ad litem.

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

From January to June this year, we paid €3.019 million for costs, as well as €2.695 million for solicitor fees and €501,000 for senior counsel fees.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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How many cases would that involve? How many children are involved?

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

I can provide that number but I do not have it now.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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Could the witness give some sort of indication about how many children are involved?

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

No.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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Will the witness come back to us about that?

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

Yes, I can provide the information to the committee.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I thank the witness.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Do other members have a comment on this issue?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to get some clarification on the response of Mr. Jeyes.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will bring the Deputy back in.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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An item has not been responded to.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will come back to the Deputy.

Mr. Fred McBride:

I am very happy to address the question of a number of Deputies on the figures for unallocated cases. Before doing so, I might go back to the question raised by Deputy Ó Caoláin about direct provision. We do not have dedicated child protection teams in each of those centres but we have such teams in each of the areas where the centres are located. Those children are living with their parents, and we respond to any concerns raised in line with Children First guidelines. We have also seconded a member of staff to liaise with the direct provision centres for a number of years, and that staff member can provide proactive information about child protection matters, how support can be received and key contacts within agencies. It is a proactive service.

The figures for unallocated cases are correct, with approximately 9,000 such cases up to July this year. There are roughly 3,000 cases which we would describe as high priority. These cases are high priority because of a need to allocate to a social worker. I do not mean to play on words but that is not the same as saying the cases are high risk. It acknowledges the need for a social worker but it is not to say the risks are either exceptionally high or immediate. I can give absolute assurances that where we discover the risk is immediate or high, we deal with it immediately. I am confident that is the case throughout the country. With cases where it is acknowledged they should be allocated to a social worker, there are often other services and agencies working with the people on an ongoing basis. We monitor those lists directly through duty and intake teams, and many cases are not in a position where they are not being worked at all. They would be monitored but it is just they have not, as yet, been allocated to a longer-term social worker.

There was a question raised about the numbers of social workers and if they are adequate. In a number of areas we have recently piloted a detailed and sophisticated workload management system. After the pilot activity, there were virtually no caseloads in the country deemed to be unmanageable, although one or two, for a temporary period, crept into an unmanageable category. We took immediate management action, which is what the caseload management system is about, to bring cases back to a manageable category. Caseloads are at the upper end of the busy category, but they are not unmanageable and we have applied a reasonably scientific system to measure it. That will be rolled out across the country over the next few months.

I emphasise the point made by Mr. Jeyes about children in care. I accept that children in care are entitled to an allocated social worker, as standards dictate, and in most parts of the country that is the case. There are one or two parts where it is not so, which brings the national average to between 85% and 90%. That is a high number in international comparisons, although that does not detract from the fact that every child in care requires an allocated social worker. A number of children in care are in very settled long-term foster placement, and prioritisation is always at play when children in the community may be in more urgent need of a social worker than somebody in a long-term placement. We need to look after both types, and we are endeavouring to do so.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I must apologise as I have to attend another meeting so I ask Deputy Conway to take the Chair. Before I go I acknowledge an intern in the Visitors Gallery from the United States of America, who will spend a semester here. I wish him well in his stay.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to clarify the outstanding point from my questions to Mr. Jeyes.

In his reply to my question regarding a ring-fenced budget for post-leaving and after-care provision, Mr. Jeyes indicated a figure of €16 million. He did not indicate whether there was a ring-fenced figure for social worker training but said he had intended that there would be. Is there currently a ring-fenced training budget for the profession of social worker? The last point that was not responded to was my question on the FETAC level 5 qualification requirement in terms of child care workers. There are a number who are affected by the deadline that has been signalled. It would only be appropriate that some latitude would apply.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

My apologies. So far as training is concerned there will be a ring-fenced budget. It is always a difficult term. Areas will all have training budgets and there is a national training service, which is not singled out for any more reductions than the rest of us. Within our business plans, we should have a target amount of the staffing budget which is allocated to supporting training. Training is a personal responsibility, particularly for the professional group. As employer, we have a responsibility to provide opportunities and experiences for training. The committee should be looking for a specific amount in our budget that we would allocate to training and in respect of which we would be held accountable.

I apologise for missing the question on child care workers. It gives me the opportunity to rehearse again that we play only one small part. My understanding is that a huge amount of work has taken place as the early years service in Ireland is modernised. Its oversight rests with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and we play our part as regulator. There are issues of training, employment of improvement staff, the audit of revenue and capital resources - the last rests with Pobal and the Department of Education and Skills has an interest particularly on the curriculum side. I am not the best placed to answer the specific question on qualifications as it does not sit within the regulator's remit. We are still committed to consulting on how we implement the standards, once the standards are confirmed, but as Deputy Troy said they have not yet been issued. Our commitment is to consult with the sector on how we take that forward. We are aware we have made that commitment. As soon as we get that confirmed we will do that.

An oversight on my part was that I did not respond to Senator Colm Burke's question. If parents decide to hand over the education of a child to the State, the responsibility rests with the Department of Education and Skills. It is our responsibility to make sure that children attend school. We also have oversight of scrutiny of places when children are educated other than at school. I do not know the details of the institution to which the Senator referred but I accept that we need a broader range of education facilities. Not all of us are suited to classroom learning. Some of us benefit from more practically-based learning. The results that one sees from our special care establishments are because in the past few years, with our encouragement we have taken a much more practical based approach to getting young people to engage with their learning and to learn through doing. The legislation confirms that the education welfare service will have the capacity to give guidance to a school, that it has to accept a youngster where buck passing has gone on and to handle that sensitively. Schools are under pressure in these times of scarce resources but we need to ensure that young people get the education they deserve. Schools are fully supported and resourced to be inclusive because that is the best type of early intervention.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I thank Mr. Jeyes. There are three more speakers

Dan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the delegation. I wish to deal briefly with psychology services, priority 15. Am I correct in saying that a strategic plan has been developed and that Tusla is now hoping to complete negotiations with the HSE to take full responsibility for the area? Is the delegation satisfied the negotiations are progressing because the HSE can often be a difficult organisation with which to negotiate and deal as those of us who have to do so are well aware. Obviously much concern has been expressed in the past in respect of child and adolescent psychiatric services. The whole area of psychology services is closely related, in most circumstances but not all, to the psychiatric services. Has Mr. Jeyes engaged with child and adolescent psychiatry services as there is much concern around some issues in the whole area? There is no doubt that there are some very good child and adolescent psychiatrists but concern has been expressed, mostly in regard to communications with families on a child's condition and sometimes even after-care with the psychiatrist in respect of the reluctance of some psychiatrists because of a traditional situation to engage the psychological services. Has Mr. Jeyes plans to promote and develop the service? I am aware he has strategic plan to develop the psychological services but can he do that without engaging in the plan itself with the child and adolescent psychiatric services?

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I welcome Mr. Gordon Jeyes and his team. Tusla is a child protection, early intervention and family support agency. This year Women's Aid Dundalk almost closed. It provides services to women and their children who have experienced violence in the context of an intimidating relationship. The work involves human rights, justice, sexual violence, accommodation, housing and homelessness. Last year 293 people requesting shelter at Dundalk Women's Aid Refuge had to be refused. Domestic violence is not a thing of the past. The housing authority is responsible for its budget. This year Tusla took over some areas of responsibility in the remit of the HSE, including care costs. What is the position of Tusla and Women's Aid going forward?

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the delegation and thank it for its presentations. It has been reported that there are 160 vacant posts and that Tusla is currently operating at 70% staffing levels. This morning we heard from the Minister that currently there are 82 people on maternity leave. Why are there so many vacant posts and what is the impact of the extra workload on staff already under so much strain? What action is Tusla taking to ensure it has adequate resources to fund the child and family agency? What is the likelihood of success with the new Meitheal project if it is not adequately resourced and how is it currently being progressed?

Will Mr. Jeyes comment on whether after-care has a ring-fenced budget and whether the resources available are adequate to ensure implementation of the national policy? I understand that supports that were available to care leavers in the past are currently being curtailed due to budget restrictions. A growing number of young people who leave State child services are becoming homeless when they reach 18 years of age. Nearly 40% live in circumstances which put them at risk. Will Mr. Jeyes please comment on that issue? Mr. Jeyes has already said that the allocation of social workers is an entitlement provided for under the Child Care Act.

It is reported that there are currently 9,000 cases awaiting initial social worker assessment. How long do people have to wait for assessment and what plans are being put in place to prepare for the unexpected rise in the number of referrals to Tusla when the Children First Bill is enacted?

Mr. Jeyes stated in his presentation that it is important to remember that children are not at risk because they are in the care of the State but are placed in the care of the State because they are at risk. How many, if any, children have since the foundation of Tusla reported abuse or maltreatment while in State care and how many children have gone missing from care while under its remit?

With regard to the posting of inspection reports on the Pobal website, it is often said that these are difficult to locate. Are there any plans to fund a new ICT system? My final question relates to direct provision. Mr. Jeyes stated in response to an earlier question that there are no dedicated child protection teams in this area. Has he had meetings on this issue with the Department of Justice and Equality? If not, does he plan to do so? Mr. Jeyes also said that direct provision was a matter for Government and the Dáil. Perhaps he would elaborate on how we can help.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Jeyes said earlier that the cost of legal services in 2013 was €34 million and the allocated budget for this year was €17 million. What was the cumulative deficit under each section of the carry-over? It should be possible to calculate the cumulative deficit if we know the carry-over for each section. Mr. Jeyes said that he accepts the need for a more multidisciplinary approach to inspections. In response to an earlier question from me in this regard he cited the Labour Court ruling but failed to cite the number of that ruling. A lot of people are interested in knowing that number.

It was reported in the media a number of weeks ago that Mr. Jeyes believes Tusla, to stand still, will require an additional €45 million next year. Has he contemplated the implications for the service if that additional €45 million is not provided?

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

On Deputy Neville's questions, discussions with the HSE on psychology are constructive. When I arrived in Ireland I said that I hoped to bring some evidence-based impatience to issues. Often when negotiating, impatience will do. It has taken too long. We now have a much more detailed service level agreement for psychology because of our statutory responsibilities for the remainder of this year. We need to move to a stage whereby, in partnership with the HSE, there is a national psychology strategy covering all aspects. Legally, there are three reasons for access to psychology: mental health, which sits with that relevant director in the HSE; services for people and children affected by disability, again the responsibility of the HSE and, as per the Child and Family Agency Act, general access for children and families, which rests with us. Each should have their cohort of psychologists but should be working together on a national strategy and using primary care where possible as the delivery mechanism. I am satisfied that current discussions are constructive and I am confident that the Minister has full experience and understanding of these matters and can bring them to a conclusion in 2015.

On Deputy McLellan's question regarding vacant posts, there are 160 vacant posts at any one time, 50% of which are filled by agencies. In other words, at any one time there may be approximately 80 vacant posts. There are two reasons for this, including, first, that until recently not all maternity leave was immediately covered. We are now starting to do that. Second, we need to reform and improve and make more responsive our recruitment processes, which from my perspective are too bureaucratic. The gap between somebody leaving, even after notice, and another person arriving, even if the system works perfectly, is unacceptably long. Tusla is a customer of shared services with the HSE. We have not yet got right that customer orientation. I often jest that it is a bit like Costa Rica having a shared service agreement with the USA. Shared services are the way forward but where one agency is tiny and the other is large it can be a difficult process.

On resources, resources are tight but services are improving. The most important cases are being dealt with. Staff are to be commended in this regard, including Meitheal. I know from my travels around the country that there are parts of this country where the number of referrals are decreasing because of the excellent partnership working with family resource centres, schools and other community bodies. It is not true to say that services are not being provided. They are. Meitheal is working in terms of ensuring the focus is on meeting the interests of the child.

I am surprised to hear that after-care in some areas is being curtailed. It is a priority area. If the Deputy is aware of individual cases where this is not the case my colleagues will look into them. The problem with after-care, as with many of our services, is that previously it was inconsistent. By international standards, our current after-care arrangements are good. To let one risk-taking young person down is to let down one too many. In some parts of the country there was not sufficient support in place. We need to ring-fence the budget and create specific standards and ensure we not only support those youngsters who remain in education but those who choose to remain in foster care. We will fund that irrespective of their education arrangements. Those involved will at that stage be adults and as such there will be no free ride. We need to broaden the range of experiences and opportunities available. Mr. Eglington told me only this morning that he is undertaking an internship with a travel agency with the prospect of employment. That is superb. We need more of those types of opportunities.

In regard to the homelessness figures mentioned, I do not recognise them. One person homeless is one too many. There are children who are homeless or who have housing difficulties because of the pressures building on their families. There are difficulties for young people in after-care because like others on benefits they are being priced out of the rental market in some of Ireland's cities. We need to look at social protection resources in this regard because many of those concerned are ending up in areas where we do not want them to be. On the 9,000 cases mentioned, all cases are assessed but some are held at the in-take level before allocation and, as stated by Mr. McBride, given support in other ways. People are not left aside until we get to them. There is a process they must go through. As I said earlier, in some areas referrals are decreasing because services are improving. We need to get on the front-foot and to work with parents. We are happy on another occasion to walk members through the service delivery framework.

On the number of children missing in care, this varies at any given time. At the time of my meeting with the Garda Commissioner last week the number for 2014 still missing was one. That may have changed by now. In other words, that youngster may well have been found. More often than not, those concerned drift back to their families or friends or a particular relationship. On the question regarding early years and Pobal, I agree with Deputy McLellan that while the service being provided is a big step forward it is nowhere near good enough. We have written to the Department and asked for funding for a new system. Investment is being made in this area and we want some of it.

Direct provision is a difficult issue.

Countries do not survive by throwing their boundaries open. We will play our part, but countries must decide through the justice system what are their arrangements. We are servants in that respect. That is what I meant by that.

Eibhlin Byrne will comment on the issue raised by Deputy Fitzpatrick.

Ms Eibhlín Byrne:

The development of services for domestic violence around the country has been, at best, inconsistent and sporadic. That is because refuges were historically built in areas either because capital was available or because local fund-raising enabled the refuge to be built. Those refuges were often shared as homeless shelters and domestic violence refuges. The changing arrangements in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, particularly regarding section 10 funding, have led to difficulties. It has been a difficulty in the instance mentioned by the Deputy. We are engaged in discussions with the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to examine how these refuges will be funded into the future. We cannot have a situation where the same beds are being used for homelessness and domestic violence incidents because when homelessness becomes long term, there is no longer a bed available for a woman or children who are suffering domestic violence.

We have taken a number of steps. Along with entering discussions with the Department, we have also undertaken a review of the services we are delivering. The amounts given to these services were traditionally divided among a number of Departments. Under the Child and Family Agency Act they are all under the remit of Tusla, so approximately €16 million is now available for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence services.

We have undertaken an audit of what the budgets are around the country, so for the first time we now know how much is spent on services throughout the country. We have also carried out geo-mapping of the locations. Due the historical nature of how these services developed, there are many in some areas and none in others. While regionally they might be well balanced, they are not balanced within areas. Following the geo-mapping, we will carry out a needs analysis and decide how services will be delivered around the country. It will be based on needs, but we will also look at international best practice. A domestic violence refuge is no place to bring up children. Children and families have spent too long in refuges. It is the policy of Tusla to provide emergency accommodation in the first place, such as in the refuges, but also to look at investing in community supports so that children and families can remain at home or at least in the community, so the refuges are not the only alternative open to them.

There are difficulties and section 10 is a particular problem for us. Renewed and reviewed audits of budgets and locations are necessary and they will be introduced by Tusla in the last quarter of this year, with a new roadmap for services for 2015 to 2017 being provided.

Mr. Fred McBride:

I will elaborate on some points made by Gordon Jeyes. With reference to the question about aftercare, we have approximately 1,600 care leavers per year. At the end of July, I was made aware of only four who had ended up in hostel accommodation directly after their care placement. There were explanations for all four of them. The four had ended up there as a result of a crisis. Their placement had temporarily broken down and they had ended up there through our out-of-hours service or crisis intervention service. They were very quickly removed from that hostel accommodation either back into their placement or into an appropriate aftercare placement.

I am aware of some information being bandied around by Focus Ireland and others as to there being large numbers in that category. I have yet to see that substantiated. When I looked into some of that information, it transpired that some of those young people were well into their 20s, so they were not leaving care. They might have been termed "care leavers" but they had been away from care for a number of years and thereafter ended up in homeless accommodation. It is regrettable, but these people were not directly leaving care at 18 years of age. That point should be made.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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Are there any figures for the number of young people going missing from the different levels of care offered to teenagers, perhaps where placements break down? Are there figures for the number of children going missing from direct provision centres?

Mr. Fred McBride:

I do not have information on the latter point. Do you mean children absconding rather than going missing?

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I do not mean absconding but where it is reported to the Garda.

Mr. Fred McBride:

I do not know about the direct provision. I would have to look into it. With regard to children in care, particularly residential care, we will soon have a very sophisticated database that will give us real time information about children who may have absconded or who may be missing. That will come on stream very soon. I do not have information on the direct provision question.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

With regard to the general issue of children going missing, we have a shared protocol with the Garda and its PULSE information is checked against ours. When I arrived, they did not reconcile but they do now. There are some issues with young people who might have been children when they went missing historically and who are still on the PULSE system. That was when there was a large number of unaccompanied asylum seekers. However, as I reported earlier, when we looked at it two weeks ago the number, including asylum seekers, was one. We know about that child and expect him to turn up.

The director of finance will respond on the financial matters and I will reply to the question about consequences from Deputy Troy.

Mr. Pat Smyth:

The agency received gross non-capital funding of €602 million for 2014. It received an additional €6.8 million in capital funding. That is the funding position. In terms of identifying the areas where efficiencies needed to be made, the CEO has indicated that there were two main areas. One was the legal spending area where there was a spend of €34 million identified for 2013 and a budget of €17.5 million against that. Obviously efficiencies and reductions were required in that area to meet that target. The other area where significant efficiencies were required related to the reductions under the Haddington Road agreement. A total of €12.7 million efficiencies were required to be made in that year. As the CEO has pointed out, part of the achievement of that would have been from the reduction in staff of approximately 70 wholetime equivalents, WTEs, relating to the additional times under the Haddington Road agreement. The rest of it remained efficiencies that had to be met from other areas.

In addition to that, we would have projected in 2014 an expected increase of approximately €2 million in the payment of what we refer to as cash allowances, effectively payments for foster care and aftercare. In total, we identified €31 million in efficiencies that had to be made in 2014.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The point is the agency knows what its budget was for 2014. What was the actual spend for 2013 to carry out the services? That will give us what the deficit was.

Mr. Pat Smyth:

It is effectively €602 million plus €31 million, so €633 million would have been our expectation based on the costs that were coming through.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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What was the actual spend in 2013 for the provision of the same services?

Mr. Pat Smyth:

It was along those lines.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It was €633 million.

Mr. Pat Smyth:

Bear in mind that the agency was formed from three former services. There was a combination of major services from the HSE, the National Educational Welfare Board and the Family Support Agency, together with the school completion programme.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

Deputy Troy asked about the cost of a stand still budget. Appendix 1 of the papers provided to the committee shows the main components of our budget. I do not believe much further saving can be achieved from paying allowances. Our administration support is extremely lean and we have noted how vital education welfare officers and social work, social care and family support staff are. Similarly, foster care is important and the number of children benefiting from foster care support increases each year. That is a given. Even a small reduction, therefore, will tend to fall on the other areas. Reducing private residential and private foster care will also be difficult because the trend is in the other direction.

We can turn that around, but not overnight. We are public servants and we will deliver the top priority and core services efficiently from the budget we are given. Clearly, if the budget is not in line with our current demands, there will be significant pressure on the grants and supports we can offer to outside agencies and on the work normally categorised as early intervention. This may or may not have consequences further down the line. I would argue that our main duty will be to keep safe those children who are at immediate risk. We will have a budget to continue to do that.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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In effect, it will be a return to prioritising and categorising children as high risk, medium risk and low risk. If the budget is not what Mr. Jeyes expects it to be, children in the medium risk and low risk categories will have to move into the high risk category before they are seen.

Mr. Gordon Jeyes:

Any time resources are tight, it is incumbent on public servants to prioritise efficiently, show there is no waste in the system and be accountable for the money they have been given by the Irish taxpayer. In light of where Ireland remains in 2014, prioritisation will be required. Having worked through the boom years when Governments were handing out money, I suggest we should always need to prioritise and make sure we are spending in an efficient and cost-effective way.

Ciara Conway (Waterford, Labour)
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I thank Mr. Jeyes and his colleagues for their informative and challenging presentation. I thank all of the members of the committee who have attended this meeting. This has been the committee's first formal engagement with Tusla. We intend to have regular engagements with the agency throughout the rest of the Dáil term. We will consider the issue of concussion in sport at our next meeting.