Mr. Jim Breslin:

In respect of early years, a question was asked about the percentage that are community facilities. About 900 out of about 4,500 are community facilities so it is closer to 20% than 30%, to which the Deputy referred. I will provide Deputy Ó Caoláin with the Labour Court ruling. In respect of blackspots and recruitment, significant recruitment is under way within the agency in respect of the filling of vacancies and the additional posts that have been approved under this year's business plan.

We know the recruitment campaign saw additional inspectors appointed during May. There is a lag in the number of inspections, however, as the inspectors do an induction process when they are appointed. We expect to see that rectified in due course. Further recruitment is under way and more inspectors will take up position in September. The agency has identified the main blackspots in parts of Dublin as a priority and will be undertaking a further recruitment campaign to address staffing issues there.

When the Department was established, it inherited a range of programmes which it is reviewing. We have an internal audit function with an independent audit committee. We take each of the programmes we are operating very seriously to see if there is greater scope for greater value for money and areas where greater controls could be implemented. There was a detailed audit of the free preschool year. Pobal plays an important role in providing this service. A Department of our size could not administer the range of schemes for which it has responsibility. Up to 4,500 providers participate in that particular scheme while the Department has a staff of 130 to cover its full range of responsibilities. We could devote a large cohort of our staff to that scheme alone and not have time to do our other work as a result.

We have an arrangement with Pobal which is absolutely legally compliant. We, along with other Departments which have a similar relationship with Pobal, have obtained legal advice on this. Pobal was established by the Government and is in its control. It appoints the board of directors while the Comptroller and Auditor General audits its accounts. It is more an agency relationship than a commercial relationship with the Department. We work with Pobal to improve how the free preschool year is operated. A major information technology project is being delivered and we will see substantial productivity improvement, building on work that has been achieved by Pobal in this area.

The question of value for money relates to the €2.5 million fee given to Pobal for operating the scheme with the total cost being €175 million. Looking at the €2.5 million on its own, as the internal audit did, it raises questions as to how it is determined. Prior to the audit, the Department and Pobal had agreed to move away from providing a fee to Pobal which did not have a proper costed activity base. Pobal did work for us which we did not pay it and then in other areas, such as the €2.5 million, it did work for us for which we did pay it. It is important all it does is properly costed with some external objective benchmarks and we can show value for money on that. That is the basis of the internal audit recommendation. Those recommendations form part of an action plan which is being implemented and overseen by the Department’s independent audit committee. The issues identified by the Department in the internal audit process will be advanced. We have the fullest co-operation from Pobal in that respect.

On the question of a conflict in interest, the current arrangement is that the compliance function is a dedicated and separate function to other roles performed by Pobal. It reports to a management unit that has other responsibilities. We have agreed with Pobal that it would be better that it would report to a specific compliance function that it would have in place for all of its programmes. Pobal will be re-organising how it does its compliance function to ensure there can be no perception of a conflict of interest. There has been a positive set of responses to the internal audit findings. I am satisfied we will have the oversight in place and that in implementing that action plan we will address all the issues outlined in the internal audit report.

The Supreme Court will hear two appeals against the High Court ruling on the children’s referendum which was in favour of the Government in early December. I am not certain how quickly we will get a ruling but the full consideration of both appeals will take place at the same time. Once the ruling is made, and on the basis that the referendum is validated, we have legislation ready to introduce to the House to give effect to the referendum result.

We have covered some of the ground about public health nurses in recognising that the task force on the establishment of the Child and Family Agency made a range of recommendations, some of which were easier to implement immediately. Through the legislation we have put a range of functions in place for the agency. There are other recommendations which will require fuller and deeper consideration. They would also have been too much to advance in the agency’s first year of operations.

In respect of relevant child and youth services which have stayed in the Health Service Executive, HSE, there is a joint protocol in place with Tusla to ensure close co-operation between the various services. We will examine that level of integration to see what the best arrangements are for the future. That will have to be considered in conjunction with other Departments too. We do not have a position on it at this stage.