Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Mulherin has asked a number of questions. Overall, the reason for the approach we are taking in terms of the climate and energy agenda is due to the fact that in the past it was always left to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to be concerned with such matters but now every Department must produce sectoral roadmaps on how they will comply with the objectives to which they contributed that are set at Government level. It is not just a matter for the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government per se and for it to take the lead action. The Department co-ordinates the approach to take. There is a good reason we have gone along the lines mentioned by the Deputy. There are enormous challenges to reduce emissions in transport, energy and agriculture and to accelerate the type of initiatives we need to have in order to meet our targets in 2020. We have no chance of meeting our transport targets on renewables by 2020 at the current pace. It would be worthwhile for the committee to have a discussion with the Departments to see what progress is being made in agriculture, transport and energy. They will be able to elucidate the discussion on issues relevant to them rather than the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government in terms of meeting objectives and what policy changes are required in order to deal with many of the issues to which the Deputy referred.

Deputy Mulherin is correct that the roll out of electric vehicles is very patchy and small in relative terms. That goes for all the renewable transport initiatives which are rather difficult to attain at the moment. I would welcome a debate on the sectoral roadmap preparations. Some of the issues raised by Deputy Mulherin could be included for discussion. The programmes necessary to roll out the roadmaps will become clear.

That brings me to the energy retrofit scheme to which Deputy Mulherin referred. An excellent model has been developed by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Sustainable Energy Ireland and the local government system. A model has been developed for local authority housing stock by which local authorities can help each other in order to meet the objectives of some of the energy retrofit schemes.

The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is faced with difficult challenges arising from the collapse of the green deal in the UK, for example. We were considering how we could replicate the scheme in government and then we discovered there were difficulties with the scheme. One cannot replicate something that has gone wrong in another jurisdiction. We were fortunate to learn from that. Equally, the Minister is trying to progress with the energy companies, in particular the ESB, an opportunity by which we can make it easier for people to pay for initiatives they can take in terms of retrofitting their home.

If one wants to change behaviour the way to do it is by means of financial instruments. If we want to achieve our objectives on energy and climate change if the fiscal instrument is to have a carbon tax then we cannot have it every way. However, I agree that we must have compensatory mechanisms for people in fuel poverty arising from the tax. There is no avoidance of carbon tax. It is an issue with which we must deal, but we must ensure that the tax is targeted at the areas that are environmentally bad and try to accentuate the good practice in exemptions for the products we are trying to promote. An example of the approach is smoky fuels. An all-island study is currently taking place on the issue. One cannot deal with smoky fuels if one has a smuggling regime that will circumvent much of the policy instruments that have been introduced in order to change behaviour. We can demonstrate that there are alternative products on the market that are as competitively priced that can meet higher efficiency targets for fuel output and heating. At the same time we will be able to deal with some of the issues mentioned such as a clean air policy and whether to exempt products or introduce a sliding scale of treatment on the implementation of carbon tax for those alternative products. Fiscal measures always change behaviour. I do not think it will be any different in future if we are serious about meeting the objectives of the agenda.

I agree with Deputy Mulherin about the lack of education on biodiversity. We have a national plan which is currently being reviewed. Part of the review should include how we will provide more education on the issues raised. The green flag scheme in schools is great but it will take a long time for good practice to percolate through the generations. I have extended the green flag opportunity to secondary schools and to third level. I hope the programmes will help people and that as pupils come through the primary sector they do not forget about the good practices with which they have been engaged when they go other parts of the education sector.

There are considerable opportunities in Deputy Mulherin’s part of the world for study opportunities and tourism on the raised bogs in the Céide Fields and the surrounding area, which is one of the finest and most valuable areas of biodiversity protection in north Mayo. I accept what the Deputy said. Perhaps we could review how we promote the protection of biodiversity in the context of the review of the national plan during the course of this year.