Mr. Christopher Lehane:

To answer from the bankruptcy perspective, what the Deputy describes as "dross" deals being offered by the banks should, in fact, be bankruptcy cases. The problem is that there still is so much stigma associated with bankruptcy, even within this committee. The reality is that bankruptcy sometimes is a perfect solution. I see people who have taken out equity releases, for instance, and whose mortgages are completely unsustainable. We have spoken about people's distress and pain. These people are trying to achieve the impossible because they have a view that going bankrupt will make them a failure. In the United States, on the other hand, it is a badge of honour for a person to come through bankruptcy and go on to achieve success. We have all heard about the people who visited Ireland recently and bought castles - people who went on to be spectacularly successful after going into bankruptcy.

We must work to remove the stigma associated with bankruptcy, starting with this committee. In Northern Ireland, there have been 50,000 bankruptcies in recent years. Individual voluntary arrangements and so on have been in place in that jurisdiction for years and are working perfectly, but there have still been 50,000 bankruptcies. There was reference today to how terrible a thing it is for anybody to lose their family home. It is not always a terrible thing. There are people who have got out from under an incredible burden that was impossible to deal with. I made the point in a talk I gave recently - my comments were reported in the newspapers - that the day the bankruptcy button is pushed, the problems of the individual in question become my problem. I deal with all of their issues and that is stressful. I am dealing with every commercial decision on the person's behalf; he or she is out of the picture very quickly once the process begins. I have to run and jump to deal with all the issues and impress the reality of the situation on creditors. For the debtor, release has come and he or she can begin to move on. Moreover, in some cases, it is all the other commitments that are gone and the family home may now actually be affordable. The family home is not always last.

We have to stop thinking of bankruptcy as always something that should not be done. It is the fourth option, it is a valid option and people should avail of it more. All the figures the Deputy mentioned were on Mr. O'Connor's side of the house. We have 82 bankruptcies at the moment. If we were anything on a par with the figures for Northern Ireland, we would be greatly adding to the solution. We are not doing so because there is still the stigma to which I referred.