Ms Ronnie Fay:

There are about 36,000 Travellers in Ireland. This is based on the evidence from the all-Ireland Traveller health study which was undertaken by University College Dublin for the Department of Health and published in 2010. The census gives a figure of 29,000 but the Central Statistics Office would recognise some of the weaknesses in its figures because some enumerators may have been afraid to go on sites and Traveller families living in double-upped accommodation who may not been counted. The 36,000 figure is probably the more accurate. We estimate the Roma population is 5,000. If Travellers are 0.5% of the entire population, what does that make the Roma? This has also to be seen in the context of the European Union population of Roma which is 15 million.

We are saying that we need to invest in inclusion measures now rather than creating a separate sub-culture of poverty which will cost us more in the long run. The bull must be taken by the horns now and integration should be proactively supported. We mean that in the best possible sense. We do not mean assimilation but respecting the different cultures. We need to hold on to what is good in the culture and challenge what is negative. Like all cultures, there are good and bad dimensions.

In common with the groups that Senator Moloney mentioned, the HRC is having a negative impact on many other people other than who it was intended to affect when it was initially introduced. It was designed to address welfare tourism which never materialised as the numbers are very small. If one thinks about austerity and how Ireland is perceived in the European Union, I do not believe we are going to be awash with people coming to Ireland. We need to be pragmatic and adopt a common-sense approach to this. Several years ago, the HRC was a major issue for Travellers but those numbers have reduced. Many Travellers are now staying in Britain or going there because they have no chance of development in Ireland. The HRC is set down across the European Union. How can Irish Travellers in Britain qualify for social welfare in Britain when they cannot in the Irish context? I believe there are broader issues at play.

It needs to be recognised that we need to build confidence among the Roma community when it comes to collating data on it, the same way we had to with Travellers. The nationality data was used to exterminate Roma in concentration camps in the past. Accordingly, they have a particular fear around data collection on ethnicity and nationality. One has to work with the community on this and they have to understand the value of the data which will inform evidence-based policy, counter discrimination and develop new initiatives. We have to take positive action now because of the Roma experience of genocide.