Eileen Flynn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Yes. There is a recent example of State racism and discrimination. Again, it is down to a person's choice. Some people may look and say it is racism but some people may look and say it is discrimination. People have differing views and there can be different situations. I agree with Dr. McDonagh that it is not State discrimination. She has opened that up for me. She has made me realise that it is State racism towards Travellers. I can give an example of that within the Oireachtas. When we discussed the Control of Dogs (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in the Seanad on Tuesday, Senators used terms like "groups of people" but obviously they could not use the term "groups of Travellers" because I was chairing the Seanad which, in itself, is powerful. That is every reason we need more human rights commissioners who are members of the Traveller community, who are people of colour, who are black or brown people, and who are people with disabilities, etc. You can be in two or three of those categories, which means there are intersectionalities that go with that. I stood out of the Chair and asked for one of the other Senators to come in because I did not have a note in my head for the discussion that was going on around the Chamber.

I support the animal control Bill that was being discussed. A tragic incident happened last week to a woman in Limerick. It was absolutely horrible. I extend my condolences to that woman's family and friends. We, in the Traveller community, do not believe in any kind of cruelty or ill treatment of animals. Again, I could see right in front of my two eyes that the legislation was going to be something that would impact on our community more because men in our community keep horses and dogs. With that, I got up and said that I could not stand by any further "State discrimination", which are the words I used towards Members. The debate moved back and forward, with Senators saying they were not being racist. I said I was sorry if they heard that I said they were being racist, because that was not the case. When we are legislating for the ownership of animals, we need to be careful to ensure that Travellers are included in that conversation.

I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to request that a member of the Traveller community sits on the group to be formed, which is the expert group on the control of animals. Again, it shows the mental health side of it for members of the Traveller community. A vital part of Traveller culture is having and owning animals. Because we are Travellers, we do not have the facilities to be able to own horses. We do not have the spaces to be able to look after them. In 2015 in Ballyfermot, we were looking at Travellers having their own horses association, where people would pay money for membership and would be well able to look after the animals they were keeping. In the Oireachtas, it is always a case of State discrimination against Travellers and other minority groups and groups on the margins. A lot of policies and legislation are aimed to keep down working-class people, people from the Traveller community, or other people from marginalised communities. I do not like using the term "disadvantaged" because it makes us even less powerful.

Without the human rights and equality commissions in Ireland and in Europe, we would not be recognised as an ethnic minority group in this country. It is only tokenistic recognition, however, because nowhere on paper are we recognised. We all need to work together. It is so important that we sing off the one hymn sheet and we say that we actually have the answers. Even in this committee we are saying we need actions, but what actions are needed? For me, it is about the local development plan and about planning. On Monday, we had a think-in with the Civil Engagement Group. Nearly all of the thinking was about including Travellers in the local development plan and about making amendments and suggestions when the Bill comes to the Seanad. I am privileged to work in a kind of group that is able to bring recommendations from this committee.

I say to Dr. McDonagh that I know the work is absolutely draining. Dr. McDonagh is the only person from the Traveller community in many groups, so she has a weight on her shoulders. We do not feel all the time that people admire that hard work and respect it. When I am in the Seanad and in other committees, I sometimes say to myself that I never thought I would see the day when I see myself as part of the problem. Does Dr. McDonagh know what I mean? We can come in here as a committee. People on this committee are genuinely good people who put politics aside and want better outcomes for members of the Traveller community. We are working together without a political party agenda. We are waiting. We have a list of requests to Departments longer than the breadth of this room, but we are still awaiting to hear back from some of them around the question of accountability to our community. I think we are chipping away at it. We are rocking the boat while staying in the boat, but it is not easy. I have no questions. I am making a lot of comments around that accountability. Your head always has to be in it when it comes to State discrimination in policies and legislation that is there, or will be there in the future, and is aimed to keep us where we are. Every community has the right to thrive. Unfortunately, our community does not have that right.