Written answers

Wednesday, 26 July 2017

Department of Justice and Equality

Committee of Public Accounts Investigations

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

537. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality if he will provide a copy of all papers in relation to the handover of the Accounting Officer function from his Department to An Garda Síochána; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35890/17]

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

538. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality if his attention has been drawn to the findings of the Public Accounts Committee with respect to financial mismanagement at Templemore Garda training college; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35893/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

565. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his response to the grave concern expressed in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee regarding the level of his Department's oversight of An Garda Síochána; his views on whether the level of oversight was insufficient thereby allowing significant financial and governance issues to develop in the Garda college. [36166/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

566. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views regarding the difficulty expressed in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee in accepting his Department's stated lack of awareness of the financial issues at the Garda college. [36167/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

567. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality if an immediate review will be undertaken to clarify the extent of the oversight role of his Department in relation to An Garda Síochána. [36168/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

568. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views regarding the assertion in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee that the Secretary General of his Department is no longer the Accounting Officer for An Garda Síochána; and that his Department has no oversight role in An Garda Síochána. [36169/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

569. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views on the assertion in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee that the inability of his Department to locate records regarding his Department’s knowledge of financial affairs in the Garda college during the period when the Secretary General of his Department was also Accounting Officer for the Garda Vote represents a departmental failure to meet basic standards of corporate governance. [36170/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

570. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views on the assertion in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee that the papers in relation to the handover of the Accounting Officer function from his Department to An Garda Síochána are important State papers and should have been retained and archived accordingly. [36171/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

571. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views on the opinion in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee that the failure of his Department to inform the internal audit function as soon as they became aware of the financial issues in the Garda college was unacceptable. [36172/17]

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

572. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his views on the assertion in the recent report by the Public Accounts Committee that the nature of the financial issues at the Garda college provided grounds for the Garda Commissioner to make a section 41 disclosure under the 2005 Garda Síochána Act to the Minister in July 2015. [36173/17]

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 537, 538, and Nos 565 to 572, inclusive, together.

The Public Accounts Committee published a report of its examination of matters in relation to financial procedures at the Garda College, Templemore on 18 July last. It follows from the Interim Audit Report prepared by the Garda Internal Audit Section of An Garda Síochána and published by the Garda Commissioner last March. The PAC report makes a number of findings and recommendations in relation to An Garda Síochána and my Department. Those findings and recommendations will be carefully examined with a view to identifying what follow up is appropriate.

As the Deputy will be aware, the Garda authorities have publicly stated that they understand the gravity of the issues identified in the Interim Audit Report and are taking comprehensive steps to progress its recommendations as quickly as possible. A high level Steering Committee, chaired by the Garda Síochána Chief Administrative Officer, and including a representative from my Department is overseeing the implementation of the recommendations of the Interim Audit Report. That work will continue as a matter of priority with a view to completion by year end. Although I would prefer that this work could be brought to a conclusion more quickly, the reality is that unravelling the funding model put in place in the College in the late 1980s has raised complex legal issues that have taken time to resolve through engagement with the Office of the Attorney General.

The independent Policing Authority is also overseeing the implementation of the recommendations of the Interim Audit Report and is expected to submit its first report on this matter to me shortly. I have referred the PAC report to the Authority in order that it can take it into account as part of its ongoing work in this regard.

The PAC report makes a number of findings in relation to my Department and, in particular, in relation to its oversight of financial matters within An Garda Síochána. These findings will be examined to determine whether any enhancements are required to existing oversight arrangements within the parameters of the statutory framework set out in the Garda Síochána Act 2005. It is important, however, to recall that under the Act it is the Garda Commissioner who is the Accounting Officer for the Garda Vote and is in law responsible for ensuring that the appropriate controls apply to expenditure within the organisation. The Commissioner is supported in that role by a Finance Directorate headed by an Executive Director of Finance and an Internal Audit Unit. The Head of the Garda Internal Audit reports to an independent statutory Audit Committee appointed by the Policing Authority and comprising a majority of external persons. That Committee has responsibility, amongst other things, to advise the Commissioner, as the accounting officer, on governance and financial matters relating to her functions. Similar to all accounting officers, the Commissioner is responsible for the preparation of an annual Appropriation Account, which is then audited and reported on, by the Comptroller and Auditor General in his annual report each year.

In this context the finding by the Committee that my Department failed in not informing the Garda Internal Audit Unit when it became aware of issues in relation to the College in September 2015 is not clear. The Committee appears to be suggesting that my Department should, when issues of concern arise, seek to circumvent the Commissioner who has, as the Deputy will be aware, statutory responsibility for controlling and directing An Garda Síochána, and instead engage directly with her Head of Internal Audit or the Audit Committee which advises her. In any event, and as outlined in its evidence to the Committee, my Department was informed in early October 2015 by the Garda authorities that the Garda Audit Committee had been apprised of the issues at its September meeting. The Head of Internal Audit reports to the Committee and attends such meetings. In these circumstances the need to inform the Head of Internal Audit did not arise.

The fact that the Garda Commissioner is in law the Accounting Officer does not, of course, relieve my Department of its oversight role in relation to An Garda Síochána. Indeed, new structures have been put in place in recent years to strengthen oversight with the introduction of a formal governance agreement with An Garda Síochána. The Governance Framework Agreement makes provision, amongst other things, for regular governance meetings between the Secretary General of my Department and the Commissioner as well as tripartite meetings involving my Department, An Garda Síochána and the Authority. In this context, senior officials meet monthly with An Garda Síochána at a senior management level to oversee progress on strategic and resource matters. In addition, arrangements are in place for quarterly meetings involving my Department, An Garda Síochána and the Authority in the context of the Authority's statutory functions in relation to providing advice regarding Garda resources. Specifically in relation to financial matters, the Executive Director of Finance in An Garda Síochána, together with the other Heads of Finance for each Vote Body in the Justice Group, attend a monthly Financial Management Committee, chaired by the Assistant Secretary Corporate Affairs in the Department. If these arrangements can be strengthened in someway to enhance their effectiveness, while at the same time respecting the statutory framework in the 2005 Act and not trespassing on either the Commissioner's operational independence or her legal responsibilities as Accounting Officer, that will be done.

As the Deputy will also, of course, be aware the Commission on the Future of Policing is examining the totality of the oversight architecture in relation to An Garda Síochána including the Authority, the Garda Inspectorate and the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and also my Department and is due to report by September 2018.

I also note the findings in relation to my Department's records. In so far as records relating to the preparations for the hand-over in July 2006 of the Accounting Officer role to the Commissioner are concerned, the Department retains its records in accordance with its obligations to do so. In an effort to assist the Committee, the Department sought to identify whether the issues relating to the College surfaced at that time. This exercise did not identify any relevant records on this specific point. In relation to the absence of records concerning the origins of the funding arrangements, including the establishment of the Sportsfield Company, an extensive trawl of several thousand Departmental records going back some 30 years did not identify any relevant records. I do not believe that one can extrapolate from this to draw any conclusions in relation to corporate governance standards in the Department today but my Department will of course continue to provide every possible assistance to the Committee.

In relation to whether the Commissioner should have informed the then Minister of the issues arising under section 41 of the 2005 Act, it remains the case that while section 41 places a requirement on the Commissioner to report certain matters to the Minister, it is ultimately a matter for the judgement of the Commissioner as to when to make reports specifically citing that section of the Act. It is not simply a question of legal judgement - it is a question of determining whether a particular set of circumstances fall within the criteria set out in the Act. The Commissioner judged in this instance that further information required to be gathered before a decision could be taken on the making of a section 41 report. I do not propose to seek to second guess her decision.

I mention these matters to provide some context to the Committee's findings and recommendations. The consideration and implementation of many of them will fall to Commissioner as Accounting Officer subject to appropriate oversight by my Department and the Policing Authority. Those directly relating to my Department will, as I have said be carefully examined to see what action is required.

Comments

No comments

Log in or join to post a public comment.