Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, for being here. I am sharing time with Senator Paul Daly, ten minutes and six minutes.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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My colleague Deputy Paul Daly and I are glad of the opportunity to speak to the Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2025.

I want to start far away from Acts and Schedules. I want to start in a kitchen along the Shannon on a wet night when the rain is hammering on the roof and the phone pings with another yellow or orange warning. The first thing people do is check the OPW app and the Waterways Ireland app and then ring a neighbour to ask what it is like at the bridge in Portumna. They might look out across the field and find the waters are well up and wonder if a flood is coming this time. That is the reality for so many families that live near Lough Allen, Lough Ree and Lough Derg, and right down to the Shannon. It is not just about water levels, it is about the fear and uncertainty year in and year out, living beside a river that is unpredictable.

In 2009 and again in 2015 and 2016, the Shannon rose into people's lives in a way they will never forget. We can measure those events in metres on a gauge or in cubic metres per second as the water passed out at Parteen. We have all those numbers, but the people who lived through those events measure them differently. They measure them by the number of nights they did not sleep, the number of times they checked the back door at 3 a.m., the number of days that they could not get to work or school and the photos of the furniture that they did not get upstairs in time. I have spoken to families who still describe the sound a flood makes - the dull quiet sound when water first seeps in and onto the concrete floor. They talk about living upstairs for weeks, using makeshift paths made out of pallets and blocks in order to move around outside their homes.

The farmers with land on the callows tell us about watching the cattle standing on the last bit of high ground in their fields and about moving stock in the dark and rain, with water already lapping around their yards. They also talk about the sick feeling when they realised that the land was gone for the year and that every bale of silage would now have to be bought. Then, as if the winters were not enough, came the summer flood of 2023. For people who live along the Shannon, that felt like a turning point - flooding in July when the fields should have been at their best. Hay and silage that had been planned and budgeted for was wiped out. The ground habitat of the curlew, which is a nesting bird, was destroyed in the middle of the breeding season. Children asked why the fields were covered by lakes in the summer.

I have spoken to farmers who say that they can manage a winter flood - that they were used to that - but that they cannot rely on the summer any more. They ask what kind of life is that and how they are supposed to plan anything. That is not just an inconvenience; it is deep, grinding stress. It leaves them wondering if they should keep farming at all. It is all about if they are able to insure or sell their homes. There is a constant question mark over their whole way of life.

We also speak honestly about the financial cost and how it feeds into people's fears. Insurance can be impossible or only available with massive excesses. Every new flood or near miss undermines the value of property, which is perhaps people's only asset. Those thinking about renovating or improving a house wonder if they should spend the money if the river is going to flood again. Repeated closures mean that businesses lose a lot of customers. Staff cannot get to work and deliveries cannot get in or out. Banks look nervously at premises in known flood areas and tighten credit.

A summer like 2023 is not just an annoyance, it can throw into chaos the whole year's cash flow and feed plans for farmers. It is not just that extra fodder is expensive; sometimes it is scarce. There is a cost to moving stock, replacing damaged fences and water troughs, repairing lanes and paying for contractors at short notice in bad conditions. All of that is before we even get to the cost of the State emergency services, road repairs, relief schemes and ad hoc compensation.

When communities ask who is actually responsible, what the rules are and what the plan is, they are not just asking an academic question, they are asking about the future of their homes, their businesses and their farms. There is an emotional toll, not just of one event but of a lifetime of events. We often talk about resilience as if it is endless, and people can absorb shock after shock. What I see along the Shannon is that the reservoir of resilience is running low. All the people who remember the 1950s and 1960s tell us they have never seen the patterns of water they see now. Middle-aged couples show brick lines on the gable ends of walls. If we are in Portumna where they keep the boats, they can show us where the water came up to in 2009 and again in 2015 and 2016. Young families trying to raise children wonder if they are being fair to those children by staying living where they are.

The mental health impact is real. People flinch at the alerts from Met Éireann or the alert tone on the radio. They check river levels more than they check their own blood pressure. Even heavy rainfall is accompanied by a knot in the stomach, even if at the end the water stays just below the top of the bank. It is not only the big headline floods that cause damage; there is a constant attrition when the waters in rivers and tributaries are sitting level with the banks week after week. Drains and ditches cannot empty. Septic tanks back up. Lovely riverside gardens are now too risky to invest in. Farm entrances need to be raised again and again. People are living with permanent low-level anxiety because they know how little slack there is in the system. Once the river is full, the next downpour has nowhere to go but sideways. I am beginning to lose my place.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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The Senator is doing well.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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That is okay.

We have to speak honestly about the financial cost and how it feeds into the fear. Dealing with or getting insurance can be impossible for homeowners. When we strip everything back, we have the uncomfortable answer about the laws from the 1930s and the related guidelines. In 2025, the Shannon is still being managed by means of a legal framework that was written in the 1920s and 1930s. I refer, in particular, to the Electricity Supply Board (Supply) (Amendment) Act 1934. The real day-to-day rules are internal ESB regulations and guidelines and protocols observed by the ESB, Waterways Ireland and the OPW. Those internal documents are where we find the normal operating bands for Lough Allen, Lough Ree and Lough Derg, the seasonal target curve for Lough Ree, the drawdown protocols for Lough Allen before winter and the detailed gate rules for Athlone, Meelick and Parteen. For a family whose kitchen has flooded twice or a farmer who lost fodder in 2023, this feels like a black box. They cannot see the rules clearly. They cannot see the trade-offs, and they cannot see where their voice fits into the decision making.

Alongside the guidelines to which I refer sits a 1934 Schedule full of level bands in feet, ordnance datum, OD, written at a time when the river was mainly seen as a reservoir for electricity generation as opposed to a living system to support communities, farming, navigation, tourism, biodiversity and changing climate.Our Bill is trying to undertake a human-centred first step. This is the background to the Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2025 that Senator Daly and I are bringing to this House. This Bill is not about clever legal words for their own sake but about starting to bring the law into line with the reality people are living with.

The Bill amends Schedule 1 of the 1934 Act to remove rigid outdated level bans for Lough Derg and Lough Allen that no longer reflect how the system operates and that do nothing to help us with climate change-driven flood risks. It updates Lough Ree’s provision so it clearly states the ESB’s purpose is to control the level of the water in the lake and, for that purpose, to execute works. This may sound technical but it is crucial. It puts water level control and not just historical electricity storage at the heart of the statutory mandate. It clarifies that the works may include dredging new channels and deepening existing channels where works are appropriate and pass all environmental and planning tests.

We are very clear that the Bill does not override planning law, environmental law or any protections we might rightly have in place. It does not say we should go and dredge everything in sight. It updates the core powers so that where works are needed to protect communities and manage the river safely, the ESB is not constrained by archaic wording drafted before most of the current population was born. Earlier attempts to do this in 2017 and 2021 fell with the dissolution of the various Governments. The message we are getting from the people along the River Shannon now after the summer floods of 2023, on top of those in 2009 and 2015 and 2016, is that waiting is no longer acceptable.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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With Senator Daly’s indulgence, I welcome the representatives from Carlow County Council who are guests of the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O’Connor. I hope they enjoy their visit here today. I call Senator Daly.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I second the proposed Bill. I compliment Senator Rabbitte who, as she very eloquently described, lives so close to the River Shannon herself. Not taking from her explanations, I lived in Kilbeggan, which is a long way from the River Shannon, but I am on the banks of one of its tributary rivers. The Inny, the Suck and the Brosna are the three main tributaries of the River Shannon. I live very close to the River Brosna and what happens on the Shannon affects us that far up. The Minister of State will be well aware of the different attempts made to alleviate and handle the flooding of the River Shannon. One of the biggest moves at Government level was the introduction of the catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, programme and the CFRAM flood risk maps that were drawn and, I think, are updated every six years. A constituent and close neighbour of mine contacted me regarding the fact that when he went to reinsure his house, his insurance company was refusing to insure him because he had appeared on one of these famous CFRAM flood risk maps.

I raised the issue here at the time on the Order of Business to seek a discussion with the Minister on it. As I said at the time and I will repeat again, if that man’s house ever floods, we will all need to be in a Noah’s Ark. Unfortunately, however, because he was inside a line on a map, a map that has been drawn based on the current status of the River Shannon, just to be sure to be sure, he was unable to get insurance for his house. This is how important the management of the River Shannon is, and not just to the people who live in its environment, on its banks or close to its estuary.

As I said, I second the Bill. I accept and promote its bona fides. Common sense would tell us it is 2025 and we are talking about something from 1925. We are talking about legislation introduced in 1934, I think it was, and it needs to be reviewed if nothing else. It needs to be looked at with a microscope to see how it can improve what is happening on the Shannon. In my role as spokesperson on agriculture, I was actively involved with Senator Rabbitte and others in getting compensation in 2023 for the farmers who lost their fodder in the Shannon Callows. It is not just the Shannon Callows. Right back up our way today there are fields flooded. It is wintertime and most of the livestock in the sheds, but an unintended consequence of what happens when a field as far up as County Westmeath is flooded, let it be only overnight, is that the nitrates go back with the water when the levels subside. It is having unintended consequences at many levels.

As I said, the legislation is from the 1930s. Let us imagine the Ireland of the 1930s and then the Ireland of today, with all the new infrastructure, housing, roads, concrete yards, etc., that have been built. In other words, these are water catchment and storm water releases that are feeding into the streams that flow into the tributaries of the River Shannon. It is half the country that is being affected by this. It is a completely changed landscape that is catching the rainwater and it is a completely changed volume of rainwater falling because of the climate change we all have to accept is causing such a difference to our climate and environment. In discussions with some older people, my father included, the Lord be good to him, a few years ago, one elderly gentleman asked when was the last time we had what we call a soft day. It seems there is a torrential downpour now or it is not raining at all. There is no such thing anymore as what was always known as a soft day with a bit of drizzly rain.

Things have changed. The volume of water falling has changed. The basin we are catching the water in has changed. The amount of water and when it is falling has changed. We have not, however, changed the legislation implemented for the purposes of the production of hydroelectricity in the 1930s. With that in mind, I commend the Bill, compliment my colleague Senator Rabbitte, who did the vast majority of the work on it, and hope the Bill cannot just pass today but work its way through the Houses and make a difference. We need some joined-up thinking when it comes to the management of the River Shannon. A range of different organisations and outfits are responsible in different ways for it and, between the cracks of all of them, nobody is ultimately responsible at the end of the day when the Shannon floods. We are then pumping billions of euro and an unbelievable amount of time into flood defences. In other words, we are firefighting as opposed to trying to eliminate the possibilities of the fire starting.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Duffy. I understand he is sharing time with Senator Murphy. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for being in the House for this very important legislation. I acknowledge Senators Rabbitte and Daly for their great work in bringing this Bill to the floor of the Seanad. It is a very common-sense and practical Bill for all the reasons outlined. I am a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy. We all know too well that, because of climate change, the increased intensity of rainfall and the predicted increase in such intensity will have pronounced impacts on communities right across the country in respect of flooding and flood risks. Flooding causes such devastation to people’s homes, lives, families and communities. It also takes such a toll on people mentally if they suffer from flooding. There is also the anxiety and fear that arise from the possibility of flooding. It always lives with people. This is something that is a reality and will increasingly be a reality.

I welcome this proposed instrument to give better flexibility to make sure there is better management for communities. It proposes to bring the situation into line with the current reality as opposed to the situation in 1925 when I believe the previous legislation was enacted. I compliment my colleagues here in the Seanad on their legislation. I support the Bill and hope to see it passed.

PJ Murphy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his presence here. I compliment my colleagues, Senators Rabbitte and Daly, on what is very good and much-needed amending legislation. For sure, it is not a silver bullet to solve all flood problems around the Shannon basin, but it is a very definite step in the right direction.

We all understand that, for reasons of navigation, summer water levels need to be maintained on the Shannon.There is a massive tourism industry built around that, with cruises, etc. Again and again, we have seen the reaction to heavy rainfall and the release of water has been too slow. This has had very serious consequences for the whole area of the Shannon, particularly the Shannon Callows in east Galway and Offaly. Huge areas of land have been flooded, causing, as Senator Rabbitte mentioned, massive damage to crops and huge fodder losses, again and again. The callows were one of the last strongholds of the corncrake in Ireland. Due to the unseasonable flooding in summer 2009, the corncrake was deemed extinct in the area in 2010, and has not bred in the area since due to unseasonable summer floods that could have been mitigated had water been released in a timely manner on all the appropriate weirs.

Senator Rabbitte, when a councillor at Galway County Council, and her colleague, Councillor Jimmy McClearn, frequently spoke on the need to dredge several channels in the Shannon Basin, and this amending legislation makes way for that and would facilitate the necessary dredging work.

Over 100 years since the Shannon hydroelectric project and the building of Ardnacrusha, and the whole works that were carried out throughout the Shannon system, only 2% of our national electricity is generated at Ardnacrusha. While it is a renewable source of energy, the damage caused to the whole Shannon river catchment, including the lands and habitats surrounding the river, is immense. One hundred years since our then Taoiseach, W.T. Cosgrave, started the process of building this project, it is time that we, as a country, have a mature conversation about the future of Ardnacrusha, its environmental impact and the environmental long-term future for the Shannon Basin. We must ask whether the generation of 2% of our national electricity justifies all the ecological damage that is done throughout our largest river basin as a result.

Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I echo the appreciation for Senators Rabbitte and Paul Daly for bringing this important Bill to the floor of the Seanad. Like others, I have stood here over the past couple of moths and complained about flooding in areas that do not usually flood. I have spoken about Dromcolliher, Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale in County Limerick flooding in the middle of the summer. I know that the Shannon lakes seem very distant from those communities, but the truth is that water management is interconnected. Blocked channels, restricted flow, outdated controls and slow response times all contribute to downstream pressure. When water cannot effectively find its own way, it makes its own path. When the flow is not being given direction, it will find its own path. A lot of the time, that takes it through our communities.

We are talking about 90-year-old legislation and I am sure that our climate has changed many times in those 90 years. We need to keep up to date with what our climate is doing and the changes that come about. I am not going to take up a huge amount of time. I thank the Senators for bringing forward this legislation. It seems on the surface to be a really good change to the legislation. As matters stand, we are quite happy for it to pass Second Stage.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Ní féidir liom tacú leis an mBille seo. I absolutely acknowledge the intent behind it. It has been introduced by my good friend and colleague. However, I cannot support it. As has been said, the very fact that we are debating an amendment to a 90-year-old Act governing Ardnacrusha speaks volumes about the urgent need to develop a whole system plan for the Shannon catchment. The Shannon is one of Europe's most significant Natura 2000 river systems and deserves to be treated as such. Since the foundation of the State, it has been altered, exploited and modified, and will soon be drawn on to provide water for the greater Dublin area. While Ardnacrusha was at the time the biggest infrastructural project in the world, and provided for many decades for most of the country's electricity needs, thereby revolutionising and transforming the country, I agree with a previous contributor that it is perhaps time to look at it again and consider the issues it has caused, in particular the ecological damage for migrating fish, most notably eels, lamprey and salmon. The proposed Bill, if enacted, could add further to that ecological damage.

I recognise the huge challenges presented to farmers by summer flooding on the Shannon Callows. I believe that a collaborative source-to-sea plan for the catchment, its lakes and tributaries, can be found if the Government chooses to lead on the issue through the water action plan and the national nature restoration plan.

We must recognise the need to build in climate modelling, the needs of the breeding waders on Lough Ree, overwintering wild foul on the flood plains and other sites, and migrating fish, as well as farmers and landowners. We need to take the opportunity to restore the catchment and estuary and to reward landowners for being a part of the solution.

As has been stated, it is time to consider the decommissioning of the Ardnacrusha power plant. It has served our country well but now produces a tiny proportion of the State's electricity needs. I know a figure of 2% has been put out. It is probably less than that. It is perhaps as low as 0.1%. It could be wound down and put forward for UNESCO world heritage status, as a marvel of industrial engineering at the time. It is important to put this question. While the ESB has over the past 30 years tried to improve fish passage at Parteen Weir, funds the moving of eels from Lough Ree further downstream of Ardnacrusha and runs a salmon hatchery, it is still not enough to help these critically endangered species, which are under multiple threats.

I share the concerns of Salmon Watch Ireland regarding the water abstraction project by Uisce Éireann. This Bill could further add to the problems for many species and I am not convinced it will help landowners either. The corncrake has long since gone from Shannon Callows, with the last breeding pair recorded in 2014. Mr. Will O'Connor of Ecofact has put forward solutions that could benefit from the barrier mitigation programme, which is funded by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Despite being constructed long before a Natura environmental impact assessment, EIA, it should not be exempt from such processes. Predating the legislation should not exempt it. On 24 November, Mr. O'Connor reported that the ESB was abstracting water from the Parteen regulating weir and diverting it to the hydroelectric station, and that this practice has serious environmental consequence for fish passage because it attracts fish out of the main river channel. This practice and repair works to the 100-year-old concrete dams are taking place without environmental assessment. Case C-204/2024 of the European Court of Justice found that Ireland had not correctly implemented the legal obligations that should apply to the Shannon scheme.

This Bill proposes potentially more ecological damage to the integrity of the catchment. Alarm bells rang, particularly when I saw the issue of dredging. I ask for the Department to give an update as to when it will begin the process of reviewing the Arterial Drainage Act, a key commitment in the 2024 water action plan.

The Shannon, as a major European river, deserves better and to be treated as the important river that it is. It deserves a collaborative catchment plan that works for nature, people and communities. The CFRAM study is the basis for integrated catchment planning and the Shannon flood risk group, chaired by the OPW, leads the multi-agency approach. That is an important approach. We need not to look at this by tampering with a piecemeal approach to 90-year-old legislation. Perhaps a brand-new piece of legislation is required to govern the Shannon catchment and we need a plan in place to manage it for nature, communities and farmers.

Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. It is lovely to have him back in the Seanad. I rise to welcome this Bill and to commend my colleagues, Senators Rabbitte and Paul Daly, for the work they have done. Senator Rabbitte in particular has been pursuing this since 2017, but, unfortunately, it has fallen foul of Governments falling and the election periods that followed. She has been pursuing this issue doggedly for many years because she understands not only how important it is to those in her area in Galway but also how important it is to so many of us who live along the whole course of the Shannon and along the banks of the lake. The fact that there are three Limerick people here today speaks volumes for how integrated the whole water system is and how much of an impact a change at one point has on the rest of us downstream.As a Limerick woman, I am wedded to the Shannon. The majestic Shannon is woven into our identity. When we think of it, we think of King John's Castle and the beautiful bridges. Being from Castleconnell, a village on the river, I have grown up with it. All my family members enjoy it. I learned how to swim there. My swimming lessons were in the River Shannon, not in a swimming pool at school. My brothers and children row on it and continue to use it for all kinds of recreational activities. We are very close to it and appreciate it.

We too have suffered from the floods over the years. In November 2009, there were winter floods. Over Christmas in 2015, the floods came through Montpelier, O'Briensbridge, Castleconnell, Cloonlara and even as far as Limerick city into the King's Island area. People's kitchens were flooded. It had a huge impact and huge damage was caused. However, we are also aware of the changes in the water levels during summer periods and when the weather is dryer. That is when we notice the flow on the lower Shannon reducing. It is of significant concern to us, particularly given the proposals we have - and rightly so - to supply water to the greater Dublin area and the proposals that are advancing for the Shannon pipeline.

Our concerns are on economic and environmental grounds. Members may not all be aware that all of County Limerick and parts of County Clare get their water supply from the lower Shannon. It passes my front door and goes down to Lisnagry to a waterworks point where the treatment and distribution is done. It is critical for us in Limerick and the surrounding areas that the water levels coming from the Parteen Basin are maintained, not only to ensure we have the water supply we need today, but also so we do not restrict our ability and desire as a regional city to grow and shoulder some of the burden of congestion and overpopulation in Dublin and on the eastern seaboard.

In raising that point, I also raise the point that there are environmental concerns. My village was known traditionally for eel and salmon fishing. With the opening of Ardnacrusha, the flow of the river reduced dramatically and the levels of a lot of those species dropped dramatically. Great work is being done by many groups, including the Castleconnell River Association, to address those issues and clean up the tributaries that lead into the Shannon in my part of the world in order to help those species to thrive. However, we have to recognise that a reduced flow or an unregulated flow to the lower Shannon could further affect these species and our ecology in the area.

I am therefore glad to have heard the points and questions raised today by Senator P.J. Murphy and Senator Noonan about opening a conversation about Ardnacrusha. It is a project we are proud of in the mid-west. However, we need to ask whether, given the opportunity to develop vast amounts of renewable energy on our west coast, the time has come to consider, in a planned manner, changes to Ardnacrusha in support of water supply, ecology and economic development in other parts of the region.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is welcome to the House. I am here to support Senator Rabbitte on this interesting and important legislation. It is bizarre that this has not been addressed since 1934. It just shows how outdated it is, that it has not been a priority of any Government and that it suits the ESB that it remains this way. However, it certainly does not suit the residents whose lives, financial security, homes and businesses have been affected. I therefore pay tribute to Senator Rabbitte for introducing this Bill. I understand it will pass Second Stage, which is great because that will give the Government an opportunity to make its position known on Committee Stage. If it feels the legislation can be improved, that is great and Members of the House who have suggestions about how it can be improved can propose amendments on Committee Stage.

I agree with my colleagues who have spoken about the need for a review and discussion of Ardnacrusha, because Ardnacrusha was the biggest project undertaken by the Government at the time. It was huge. It was groundbreaking and made a huge difference in modernising the country. I attended, I think it was 20-----

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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Was the Senator there nearly 100 years ago?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I might have been in some other capacity. Perhaps the Minister of State was. However, I was certainly there when then Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, came, as were the Leas-Chathaoirleach and others, when the big review of the estuary was launched. We had the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and several Ministers at the time.

As a side-script to something I will perhaps raise next week, perhaps we should hold statements on the review and the implementation of that report because a lot of money was spent on it and it was certainly big on renewables. The then Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, was there and spoke passionately about the recommendations and the difference they would make to the country. I would like to know where we are in the implementation of that report. I know that is not why we are here today, but I am putting it on the record anyway.

This Bill is great. Senator Rabbitte's experience in government has influenced it and I hope it will progress in a timely fashion and does not just sit in the system for a year or two. We need to deal with Committee Stage after Christmas, with a view to concluding Report and Final Stages before the summer recess.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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That is a reasonable period for the Government to formulate its position on this. When it is doing so - the Minister of State will agree with me about this - it needs to think about the people who have been affected, including the businesses, farmers, homeowners, elderly people who are frightened and the people who are up at night wondering whether they will be flooded. At the end of the day, they are the citizens of this country and the ESB is a big, powerful organisation. These people, as far as I am concerned, have as much influence as the ESB and their voices have to be heard as loudly as that of the ESB.

I commend Senators Rabbitte and Paul Daly on the work they have done on this.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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Tá mé fíorbhuíoch do gach Ball a bhí páirteach sa díospóireacht iontach seo. Déanaim comhghairdeas leis na Seanadóirí Rabbitte agus Daly as an mBille a chur os ár gcomhair. I have a prepared script that would not do justice to the fantastic debate we have had. That is why I love coming back to the Seanad. It is a place where we have real, proper, informative debates. We began with the raw emotion of Senator Rabbitte who painted the picture of a real, lived experience. It is not a novel, film or fabled story; it is reality, in particular, the image of checking the levels and being able to recalibrate life in a different way.Senator Murphy set out the history. I did not think he was going to want to get rid of Ardnacrusha. I nearly felt he was going to get a bit of Semtex and blow it up - I am glad Senator Noonan came in and said it should have UNESCO world heritage status; I agree with him - but I know Senator Murphy did not say that, to be fair. Both Senators raised a very interesting, pertinent point about the site's future.

Senator Dee Ryan made a fascinating contribution about the use of the river in terms of not only rowing and swimming but also ecology, comments she shared with Senator Noonan.

Senators Duffy and Daly brought their insight in terms of not only practicality but also farming and the community.

Senator Conway spoke about the importance of the people and Senator Collins referred to flooding.

I apologise that the Minister of State is not here. As Members will know, the Government is not opposing the Bill on this Stage. I apologise to Members; I have digressed from the speech completely. I probably will not refer to the speech too much but I think they will get the gist of what I am saying.

This is an important matter. It is part of why we need Private Members' Bills in both Houses of the Oireachtas, in particular Seanad Éireann. The Bill before us covers many issues and incorporates some of the views Members have articulated. They voiced discord without being discordant on the Bill. The issues they have addressed collectively in this House show that Private Members' business and this Bill are about addressing a collective lived experience of people.

Senator Ryan is right - I know Senator Noonan will agree - that we are moving towards renewables. If, as Senator Murphy said, 2% of our electricity generation comes from Ardnacrusha, if we are genuinely serious - I pay tribute to the former Minister, Eamon Ryan, who set us on a journey towards renewable energy - and if we want to take what Senators have articulated about the west coast, then this debate is that catalyst with Government policy on renewables. I know that is a different part again.

Maybe there are people watching and listening to this at home. We are living in a world where there are more severe weather events. Senator Daly spoke about the soft day. Yellow warnings, red warnings and orange warnings have become part of our lexicon and they are not going away. I thank Senator Rabbitte for articulating, on behalf of an gnáthdhuine, the person who is at home, sa bhaile, ag éisteacht agus faoi bhrú. Sometimes, when I hear the naysayers, I ask the lads and ladies how we are to protect people. How do we act collectively, not just to ensure that weather warnings are taken seriously, but that we can mitigate climate change? More importantly, how do we protect ourselves as people - not only our families, our homes and our communities, but also our world?

I had the pleasure when I was Cathaoirleach of this great House of visiting many parts of the world. I was struck by the people of Malawi, who are facing extinction. With the former Member and Minister, Denis Naughten, I visited the people of the Sahel, who are on the verge of annihilation. Today, in a different way, the people the Senators talk about are, in a similar vein, having that same experience in our country, in the middle of a modern world, exposed to weather. We all have a role to play in how we can mitigate climate change. As Met Éireann will tell us - I am smiling at Senator Daly because he is not wrong - the intensity of our rain and our weather has changed. As a consequence of flood management, needs must adapt also.

As Members will know, the OPW is the lead agency for the co-ordination of the risk management policy. The OPW has three strategic policy objectives and areas. One is prevention by avoiding construction in flood-prone areas. The second is protection in terms of being able to take feasible measures, both structural and non-structural, to reduce the likely impact of flooding. The third is preparedness in terms of informing people of flood risks and putting in what Senators spoke about, namely, resilience. One thing Senators are right about is that people's internal resilience is getting weary. I saw it in my city of Cork, where there was a flood in the area of Douglas. We were told it was a once-in-a-generation flood, and there was flooding in Cork city in 2010. My God, there are still people today who, when they see a red or yellow wind or weather warning, panic. Rightly so. I compliment the OPW on its work because its flood mitigation, its minor flood works and its major coastal protection schemes, on which we have spent millions, if not billions, of euro, have worked quite well.

We must do things differently. We must be prepared to think outside the box in terms of the CFRAM approach to the solution as regards rivers. The OPW, with the Government, must be cognisant of that. As a Government - Senator Noonan was in government and was very much involved as well - we have committed almost €1.3 billion to the delivery of flood relief measures up to 2030. That speaks to many townspeople here who have spoken about flooding and the avoidance of flooding.

Again, I apologise to the Members. I am dispensing with some of the speech because it is not really what we are on about here.

As regards the Bill the Senators have spoken about today, it is important that I make the point, on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, that the OPW has no powers to instruct the ESB regarding its works on the Shannon river.

We share a collective - I took note of it - in terms of the response to the water release and the high volume of rainfall. I think it was Senator Murphy or Senator Noonan who referred to the slowness of the response. We saw that, although I had better be careful because we had a court case in Cork with the release of water. Anyway, the Senators know where I am going with that. I do not want to get anybody else into further trouble. There needs to be greater consultation and engagement around that piece, and this Bill does that.

May I make a couple of points about Members' contributions? The Bill itself does not change the purpose of the 1934 Act in terms of electricity generation. The debate today has proposed a wider engagement, and rightly so, on our electricity generation in terms of renewables, which is good. The removal of the water level limits from the 1934 Act neither increases the ESB's power nor provides additional flexibility in how the Shannon operations are managed. The levels referred to in the 1934 Act do not constitute mandatory operational levels.

It is important to put everything in context. The new wording will not obviate the ESB's obligation to obtain planning permission or to obey both national and EU legislation on the environment. That is a key point. Given that the Bill does not change the purpose of the 1934 Act, which was for electricity generation, any works envisaged by this amended Bill will equally need to be for the purpose of electricity generation. That is a fair point by the Members. As in the case of the River Lee, restrictions on water flow in the River Shannon are primarily as a result of the river's topography, not as a result of legislation. It goes back to the point about the management of water and how we do it. That is a fair point. We all need to have that conversation, irrespective of views.

The main point the Department would make is that the Shannon flood risk management plan, published by the OPW in 2016, is the correct vehicle for managing flood risk on the river. Detailed modelling was carried out as part of the Shannon catchment-based flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, study. This is extensively reported on in the hydraulics report, the preliminary options report and the flood risk management plan for the river. This work concluded that the operation of the controls at Ardnacrusha, Parteen Weir, Athlone and Lough Allen or Bellantra has been extensively modelled and studied as part of the Shannon CFRAM study. What they say, which we can talk about again at a future date, is that no realistic operational options to mitigate floods were identified.

I draw Members' attention, in the time remaining to me, to the water framework directive, which places an obligation on us as a country to protect water status from deterioration and to bring all water to at least good status in a way that brings in the points made by Senators Noonan and Ryan about ecology. Senators mentioned the yields. I think Senator Murphy did. Maybe he did not - sorry. We cannot ignore that either. Water quality is very important as well. If we are to be honest, achieving good water quality in our rivers, lakes, estuaries and seas is essential for us as a nation to protect our drinking water sources, our environment and the tourism sector.If we look at the work in terms of investment done by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, and Senator Noonan when he was Minister of State, investing in nature can bring multiple benefits to our country, particularly with the nature-based catchment management solutions, improving water quality, reducing flood risk and creating habitats. In carrying out these functions, these measures can provide multiple co-benefits such as climate regulation, climate change adaptation, improved soil management and the creation of amenities.

I point out to the Members of the House that the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has raised concerns about the Bill in its current format in that it would allow river works without the required assessments. The Department draws attention to the requirements of the habitats directive and highlights the possible need for a strategic environmental assessment in relation to this proposed Bill. This goes back to Senator Conway's core point that Government can work on that on Committee Stage. Equally, the Department has also expressed concern that the Bill, as proposed, would not compromise the objectives of the water framework directive. As we know, the European Court of Justice has ruled that the environmental objectives of the water framework directive are legally binding on member states and member states are required to refuse authorisation for any project which may result in deterioration, or which may jeopardise the environmental objectives. I refer Senators to that derogation regime of Article 4(7) of the water framework directive.

Going back to the beginning where we started with Senator Rabbitte was painting that picture, I was nearly in a poetic musical with Lough Allen, Lough Ree and Lough Derg. I was struck by the power of the human and the loss of animal, crop, fodder or land. That is all combined because a farmer loves his land and his stock. We have many challenges which are multifaceted. The real thing is that there are no easy solutions. We have a very honest and brave attempt this afternoon in this House to bring forward legislation, which I commend. I thank Senator Rabbitte for doing this. This legislation is an additional tool in our armoury and our weaponry as we look for possible means of mitigating flood risk. I hope we will have, and we do require, a whole-of-government approach to flood policy and that collectively we can work le chéile to minimise that risk of flooding and flood damage through prevention, protection and preparedness.

Mar fhocal scoir, gabhaim buíochas leis na Seanadóirí Rabbitte agus Ó Dálaigh as ucht an rúin a chur os ár gcomhair. Táimid i bhfabhar an rúin.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. I now call Senator Rabbitte to reply.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. Is it okay if I share some time?

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I am afraid not.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I can only speak? Okay. I thank the Minister of State for his genuine response and for bringing the human element into his response as well. I had read through the speech and I am glad that he blended our contributions into his response as an acknowledgement of the richness of the contributions that were made here today. This is only a start. This is opening a conversation. The conversation that was brought to the floor today in response to this amending Bill on Second Stage was around flooding and about the two floods we have now come to live with on the River Shannon, be it winter or summer. It was also about our responsibility to protect humans but also to protect our environment. Nobody wants to be reckless and it is to acknowledge we must work within the various frameworks.

The farmers are more than willing to play their part along the banks of the Shannon. When they speak to me they say, if they had one flood they could manage it, but it is the two floods that are catching them. That is very honest. We have to look at this. I have no doubt that advisers and the ESB are watching this today and I really hope they are listening in to my contribution. I am like a dog with a bone on this for the simple reason that this is very simple. I am saying I want to take out set levels. I want to review the set levels. I have not prescriptively said what set levels I want. One thing for certain is that the levels of 1934 and the levels in 2025 are not comparable because we have had a huge amount of peat extraction and a huge amount of stuff has gone into the basin of the Shannon. Therefore, the level has come up.

The ESB is only legislatively tasked with doing one thing and that is ensuring the levels are kept at the level that is in legislation. That means, at all times, we mark the bank of the Shannon. We will always bring it to the top but we will only increase our spill level when we are at a flood-risk mitigation spot. What that will then do is put pressure on the people downstream in Senator Dee Ryan's area. It will go through Parteen recklessly and through Ardnacrusha. Whatever we can get it out, we will get it out. Today, the spill level is about 400 cu. mm per second. However, in November, when we had heavy rain, we went to 607 cu mm. Therefore, they can spill. My Bill is about whether we can spill responsibly. Can we ensure that we review the levels, protect the environment, the biodiversity and the land, and ensure navigation happens?

There is an opportunity with this to say we can review and reflect. We have the science and the data. We do not need to turn on the tap extra heavy when we have had three weeks of it in late December, early January, when it will happen and when decisions need to be made. That can happen because we have ten-day weather forecasts. Last night, in Portumna, we had 6 cm of rainfall, but when you go further upstream they only had 3.2 cm. All the water that comes through the gates in Drumshambo or in Jamestown sluices has to come down to us in Portumna and it still has to go all the way today. The ESB is only tasked with measured it from Athlone down. All I am asking is that we have that honest conversation and just review the levels. Can we be more responsive to current-day mechanisms of technology where we can read the levels, increase our spill rate and put no lives, livelihoods or businesses at risk? That is the nature and the essence of it. It comes from that space. I do not want to undervalue how simple this is. I am just asking that we take it out, give us the conversation and we can find a solution in practical and real terms. As Senator Conway said, the summer is a good goal to set for ourselves. I thank the Minister of State.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Next Tuesday at 1 p.m.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.