Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House for statements on school transport.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted to be here to share an update on school transport with Seanad Éireann. As the House will be aware, the school transport scheme is a hugely significant operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education and Youth. As a TD for many years and now as Minister of State with responsibility in the area, I have seen at first hand how important the school transport service is to families up and down the country.

The school transport scheme is not just a logistical service involving buses and routes, but an important support that since 1967 has helped children across their primary and post-primary education. It is about ensuring that no child is left behind simply because he or she lives beyond the reach of a public transport line. In many parts of the country, especially in the rural and unserviced areas, the school bus is the only bridge between home and the classroom. The scale of the operation is significant. Every single school day, over 178,000 children climb aboard approximately 8,200 vehicles travelling along 10,600 routes to primary and post-primary schools across the country. Its benefits also extend to parents and guardians who need to get to work on time. Having their children on a bus means that they do not need to worry about how their children would get to and from school. Sometimes overlooked as well is how the school transport system contributes to our wider climate action targets by reducing car dependency. This, in turn, helps to reduce overall transport emissions and supports the wider goals under the Government's climate action programme.

Members will be aware of the growth of the scheme. As with last week's debate in Dáil Éireann, today's discussion will likely focus on issues around the country, which I acknowledge and will discuss. I want to highlight, however, that there has been a massive growth in the provision of school transport over the last six years in particular. Bus Éireann has issued over 178,000 tickets to date to mainstream services for the 2025-26 school year. This is the highest number of places ever allocated and equates to an increase of 48% since 2018, when the number of children supported was 120,000. This was enabled by investment in the scheme more than doubling from €200 million seven years ago to €512 million in 2024. Of those 178,000 pupils, school transport facilitates over 100,000 mainstream pupils who are eligible for transport as well as 49,000 who are not eligible for transport and who are what is known as - Senators will understand the term all too well - concessionary ticket holders.

This growth has been especially marked in the area of special educational needs transport, which now represents almost 60% of the scheme's total budget, while serving just under 14% of the pupils. This reflects the Department’s continued commitment to inclusive access and tailored supports.The investment is extremely welcome as the scheme and associated costs continue to grow. This growth is driven by increased pupil numbers, an expanding scheme for children with additional needs and increasing transport costs. I meet with senior school transport officials in the Department and Bus Éireann on a weekly basis to track the progress and discuss issues arising to ensure solutions are found for families impacted, which they are daily. To demonstrate this fact, there has been great work done to find solutions for a number of services that were in place last year but did not start on 25 August this year. For those routes specifically, since the start of the school year alone, Bus Éireann has covered 90 mainstream vehicles serving 4,214 pupils and 175 SEN vehicles involving 734 pupils. There is still work to do and I appreciate the idea would be that such issues would be avoided in the first instance. I mention this here today to demonstrate the pace of the work done in recent weeks alone to resolve issues and ensure families are not left stranded.

There are many challenges within the scheme. A scheme of this magnitude is not without challenges. These are reflected in the reported difficulties in sourcing contractors or vehicles in a small number of locations. Approximately 1% of all pupils who have tickets for the current school year are affected by such issues. I wholeheartedly acknowledge the stress and worry this causes to the students and their families. It is important to note that school transport services have not been cancelled, and the affected families have been contacted directly in relation to these challenges. Resolving these difficulties is a priority for myself, colleagues in the Department, and Bus Éireann. It is important to note that all parties are focused on ensuring that transport arrangements are put in place as soon as possible.

There can sometimes be accusations that the lack of services or the late withdrawal of services is due to poor planning, that we all know when the school year starts and therefore the services should be sorted out in time. While I understand the frustration, it is important to highlight that planning starts around November prior to the school year starting, so there is a long lead-in time. Sometimes, however, the issues that arise are outside of anybody's control, such as if the contractor informs Bus Éireann that it is withdrawing its services just days before the school term, which happens every year with no clear reason given. Likewise, I have seen this year a couple of instances where major contractors had to withdraw their services well into August on health grounds. These are obviously very unfortunate circumstances to arise, both for the contractors and for the families impacted. It also means that Bus Éireann has only a limited time to secure a new service.

Difficulties have also arisen in some cases due to the lack of driver or contractor availability or where zero bids were received for a service, despite repeated efforts to procure one. I want to assure Seanad Éireann, however, that Bus Éireann and the school transport team are working extensively to ensure that transport arrangements are put in place as soon as possible. While the situation is dynamic, solutions are being found daily. Currently, those without transport represent a very small number of pupils on the school transport services nationally.

Many Members, both privately and in Dáil Éireann last week, have spoken about the over-70s. On the matter of the driver age limit, the current retirement age of 70 remains in place across Bus Éireann services. From what I understand, there are other bus companies that have similar policies in place, with lower age limits, so Bus Éireann is not alone in its approach to this. A review commissioned by the Road Safety Authority was completed in August 2024. The report was compiled by Professor Desmond O'Neill from the National Office for Traffic Medicine. The report highlighted that there were specific sensitivities that policymakers need to be cognisant of when it comes to carrying children on school buses. The same report states that there is evidence which suggests more caution should be exercised when considering the requirements of drivers of school buses. I mention this here as it is often raised with me as a matter that needs to be resolved. As the Minister responsible, while it might be an easier for Bus Éireann for remove the upper age limit, I also need to ensure that the best evidence available is considered, which ensures the safety of any children travelling on a school bus. Notwithstanding this, there is a programme for Government commitment to carry out independent assessment of the feasibility of removing the exclusion of drivers over the age of 70 from the school transport scheme. Importantly, the 2024 review only considered larger vehicles and did not consider other vehicles operating within the school transport scheme.To fully consider all vehicles, Bus Éireann has advised that it has commissioned external consultants to research available evidence to examine the safety risks and implications of extending the maximum driving age of drivers for small public service vehicles contracted to deliver school transport services under the school transport scheme. The vehicles in question can carry up to eight people, excluding the driver, and include taxis and wheelchair accessible taxis. There are approximately 2,700 such small public service vehicles operating under the school transport scheme on each school day in Ireland. Most of these vehicles are used to operate services under the school transport scheme for children and young people with special educational needs. These services often include school transport escorts to assist children and young people in their journey to and from school. The external consultants are researching best practice in Ireland and internationally. Once completed, the final research will be carefully and fully considered by the board of Bus Éireann.

I look forward to the discussion and will try to answer any queries raised by Senators in the course of the debate.

Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit as ucht a bheith anseo arís. I will start by acknowledging the sheer scale of the school transport system in Ireland. The Minister of State has outlined some of the figures, including the fact that 178,000 students get on approximately 8,200 vehicles around the country on a daily basis, covering 10,600 routes. That is a massive undertaking and we should acknowledge the work of Bus Éireann, departmental officials, drivers, escorts, contractors and everyone who makes this possible. It is a huge undertaking to get 178,000 students safely to school every morning and home again every evening. That is to be commended.

Our party has a huge track record of delivery in the area of school transport. Since we got back into government, we have more than doubled the amount of investment in school transport in Ireland, from €200 million up to €512 million. We are spending more than half a billion euro on an annual basis, which is a huge amount of money and it shows our commitment to school transport in this country. The programme for Government commits to more than 100,000 extra students in the school transport scheme by 2030. That shows real ambition but I am sure the Minister of State will agree that there are challenges to be faced in achieving that by 2030. We all need to work together to make sure that we find the blockages in the system that are making that difficult and make sure we get there by 2030. There are pilot projects under way to try to bring this in on a phased basis to make sure it is achieved and that is very welcome.

Having referred to all of the positives in the system, it is fair to say that we also have massive challenges. Parents have described to me facing a lottery on an annual basis, every August, when it comes to trying to get their child on a school bus. The fact of a student getting a ticket every single year and then potentially losing it the following September needs to be examined. It causes huge anxiety for families every August and September and we need to remember that. This morning, I got a phone call from Councillor David Cassidy in Longford who is dealing with a family that missed the deadline due to a bereavement abroad. The family had to fly to America for a funeral and because they forgot about the deadline, the child has been left without a school bus ticket for the year. We need to have a bit more flexibility in the system. I do not think anyone working in the Department lacks compassion or flexibility but the system handcuffs them a small bit and prevents them from showing compassion in those niche, exceptional circumstances.

I have a number of ideas that I would like to bring to the table today to make the system a little bit more efficient. One is a multi-year applications process that would allow parents to apply once for the full duration of the eight years of primary school. A child would get a ticket in junior infants and have it the whole way up to sixth class because we know the child is going to need that ticket for eight years. If that ticket was valid for the full eight years from junior infants to sixth class and another similar system was brought in at second level to allow for a first year to sixth year ticket, that would take a huge amount of the workload off the administrative staff in the Department who have to issue tickets every year. It would also give a lot more certainty to parents who face that lottery every August, as they have described to me. It would be a hugely positive move.

The Minister of State mentioned driver shortages. I understand that we have to be absolutely certain on this and that student safety on a school bus is paramount. They have to get to school safely every morning and get home safely every evening. I was a teacher for years and saw them hopping on the buses. It is extremely important that they be safe. In some cases, a driver over the age of 70 years can definitely drive a school bus safely. They currently come in to school at 11 a.m. to pick up a hurling, camogie or Gaelic football team and bring them to an extracurricular event but they are deemed unsafe by Bus Éireann at 8 a.m. to bring the same students to school safely. There is an anomaly in the system. If we had more regular driver tests, we could provide a huge supply of drivers that are not currently available before and after school but are available during the school day, because it is a private system. We need to have more flexibility on that in order to address the driver shortages.

In the bigger picture, this scheme is vital for rural access for working families and to reduce carbon emissions in rural areas. We take cars off the road every time we get a child onto a bus. We lower the carbon emissions that we are producing in rural communities and that is vital. It is also vital for students to develop life skills. There is independence involved in getting themselves ready in the morning for the school bus. It teaches them time management skills and gives them an ability to navigate public transport. This is all vital for the development of a child. It is not just about buses and routes; this is a lifeline for families in a lot of cases, where parents need the flexibility to be able to get to work early in the morning knowing that their children will be picked up at the gate and brought to school safely. It is important for parents to have that peace of mind when they are hopping into their cars to go to work in Galway or wherever, to know that their children are at home in a rural parish and are getting on school buses safely. That provides huge peace of mind for parents. I know that we are doing a lot to enable that but there is a way to go to get the scheme completely sorted by 2030.

I reiterate that Fianna Fáil, like the Minister of State himself, is committed to the scheme. We are committed to the three goals of certainty, compassion and capacity. We want to give certainty to parents, we want compassion in the system for those isolated incidents and we want a huge increase in capacity in terms of the number of buses and drivers in the system. We all agree that no parent should face sleepless nights in August, wondering if his or her child will get to school safely on a bus for the school year. That is a goal that we should all have, namely, to make sure that no parent faces that uncertainty in August. Continuous investment and reform will ensure that the scheme is fairer, more flexible and fit for the future.

Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here and I thank the Cathaoirleach for organising this discussion this evening. Like Senator Curley, I want to acknowledge the 178,000 students that are getting on buses every morning, the 8,200 buses, and the 10,600 routes in the system. The Minister of State said that no child should be left behind and it is great to hear that. The increase in spending in this sector in recent years is impressive, going from €200 million to over €500 million, and shows that the Government is trying to resolve this issue and ensure that no child is left behind.

As Senator Curley has said, there are several issues that we are constantly being told about on the doorsteps. People are constantly getting in touch with us, both schools and parents, with issues. One of the problems that I have with the system is the communication. It is one of the longest processes in terms of getting a response when we raise an issue with the school bus system. I have raised this in the Chamber previously, with the Minister of State and with Bus Éireann. I hope that when the strategy is put in place in November this year, Bus Éireann will embrace it, stand up and respond to public representatives when we send in correspondence.

An issue that was mentioned by both previous speakers is sustainability and the efficiency of the routes. The only way that matter will improve is through more engagement with students and schools at a much earlier stage. We need to get out there and get questionnaires into the schools early to try to find out what the future demand is going to be, not just for next year, but in the longer term. I like what the previous speaker said about multi-year applications.We have all had the representations from families who have to make the same appeals every September when their tickets do not come through the door.

Going back to the sustainability and efficiency of the routes, last March, I met with a group of parents in a particular rural area who were having to drop students quite a substantial distance away from their homes to meet the bus route at what they felt was a dangerous place for dropping off students. They came up with a plan. It took three months of going over and back with Bus Éireann directly before it actually took it on board and engaged with the process. It was able to see that rather than two buses travelling 40% of their routes along the same route where one of the buses was not picking up any students, it made a lot more sense to do a wider loop and create a safer place in a smaller village to actually pick up students. That has been implemented. I thank the Minister of State for his intervention in that case because it made sense. However, we should not have to spend three months having to justify sense and sustainability and journeys that make sense and pick up more students.

I would also like if there was some sort of account taken of certain students, because the ones we seem to get more appeals for every September are those for whom there is a special case, such as that mentioned by the previous speaker where there was a family funeral and they were not able to get there. I have had experience where there have been deaths within families, and then there are one-parent families who have issues where they have to leave one of the kids in the house while they go off to meet a new bus route two hours earlier than they have to bring the smaller child to crèche services. The changing bus routes are not necessarily picking up any additional people; they might be doing it three or four minutes quicker. They are the sorts of stories we are hearing. They do not make sense. If people were engaged with at an earlier stage, they would be able to support and make Bus Éireann aware of these changes rather than having to appeal them three months after they have been implemented.

Another pet peeve I have is that when buses and routes are up and running we, as a State, are implementing large-scale infrastructural projects and all of a sudden, a school is finding out three or four days beforehand that the bus will not be able to pick up certain students because of infrastructural projects. These are not things that happen three or four days beforehand. I refer to large infrastructural projects like, let us say, the N5 between Roosky and Tibohine in my native County Roscommon. They knew that project was happening for the past 18 months because they have been planning for it, yet schools only found out in September, three days before the route was going to stop, that the students were not going to be picked up in Frenchpark. That took a lot of engagement from local councillors and me with the Minister of State's Department and Bus Éireann. However, people from Bus Éireann still had to go out and investigate and take an extra week to make sure the routes we were suggesting were suitable to pick up those students. That meant certain students - six to ten students - did not make school on that particular week in September because they had no other way of getting to school. The reason they were using the school transport system is that they had no transport. Perhaps something could be put in place so that we have a longer lead-in, or maybe when infrastructural projects are implemented, we engage at a much earlier stage with schools that are affected by these. That was an additional problem that I was not expecting. I was expecting no capacity or the concessionary tickets, not that a bus could not pick people up because a road was being closed. I know that when that particular project gets to its second phase, there will be an additional road closed and I am going to need to get it resolved again in two or three months' time. Perhaps we could build that resilience into the system so that we are engaging, communicating and bringing the people who are using these services along with us.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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The review of the school transport scheme that happened a few years ago was very welcome. It was badly needed. It did take a long time, but it was eventually published about 18 months ago. It made a number of recommendations about reducing the distance people had to live from their school to avail of school transport and that they had to attend their nearest school. I was expecting that some of the recommendations might have been implemented for this school year and maybe we would not have the same number of problems when the schools resumed. Unfortunately, however, that was not the case because none of the recommendations have been implemented as yet. I know a commitment has been given that they will be by 2030. There were 14 pilot projects launched last year and there does not seem to be any increase in those and they are not being reviewed yet, which is disappointing because I really think that if the pilot projects are looked at, they are a good idea to integrate school transport with other transport routes that exist in the community like Local Link, etc.

I still have parents contacting me whose children did not get tickets at the last minute and who want concessionary tickets and who got them for the past number of years but did not get them for this year. Senators have been talking about how people can register for a ticket as they start school and they will get it for the eight years, but that can only happen if the capacity in the system is increased. At the moment, not all students who register get tickets because there just is not the capacity. There is a lot of movement as well because of the housing issue. Families regularly move and have to reregister for tickets.

I raised with the Minister of State last week the situation in Belturbet. That is ongoing, obviously. I am hoping he will be able to assist in some way in helping those students get to school where they are not having to pay huge amounts of money every week on a private provider. I also have another situation where two boys in a family are attending secondary school. They applied for tickets and were told they are eligible but there is no service, so they should be entitled to the remote area grant. Bus Éireann is claiming that they applied late and, therefore, are not entitled to the grant this year. However, last year, the oldest of the children was starting school, applied for a bus ticket, was told that, yes, he was eligible, but there is no service, but he was never informed that he was entitled to the remote area grant. He was able to get a lift with a neighbour to the school last year, but that neighbour has now finished school and is no longer travelling. This is a single parent who does not have transport. She is on disability allowance and cannot afford to pay for transport to the school. As a result, they are missing out on school. I have emailed the Minister of State the details and perhaps it could be looked at. The point I am making was that even if she was late in applying for whatever reason this year, I have come across situations where parents have been late in applying before and Bus Éireann will say that, when everybody else is catered for, it will see if there is any room on the bus for them. Therefore, some students who have applied late still end up getting tickets. In this instance, if people are relying on a remote area grant, they are being discriminated against because they are not considered if they are late.

I am aware of another situation where a student was getting his concessionary ticket - a bus pass basically going from the front door to the school - but the school he was going to was not his nearest school and he lost his ticket. If he was to go to his nearest school, he would have to walk a number of miles to get the bus to that school. The bus to the school in question was not even his second nearest, because he would have been entitled to the ticket there as well, but his third nearest, but all the schools were relatively similar distances. Again, it is poor organisation that he could not actually attend that school the bus was going to past the front door.

Parents have got very short notice of either a service that was not running, and I know sometimes things can happen and a service has to be pulled at the last minute, or the fact that their students did not succeed in getting a ticket this year. I actually thought the registration process might have started earlier and it did not. It started at the same time as every other year; 25 or 26 April or something like that was the closing date. Maybe of that could be brought back a few months, Bus Éireann and the Department would be aware of exactly how many students are applying for school bus tickets.

Officials from Bus Éireann appeared before the Joint Committee on Education and Youth prior to the recess. We were talking about school transport, and I asked the question of how much of the fleet or buses that actually bring students to school are owned by Bus Éireann, and they told me 5%. I was actually very shocked. It is 5%. I thought they might have said 50% or something like that, but it is 5%, so 95% of our school transport is reliant on private operators. I know Bus Éireann finds it difficult to get operators. I am not surprised when it is actually that amount. One question I did ask was whether there is an intention to invest in the school fleet because if we are to increase the capacity by 100,000 by 2030, as was stated by Government, we are going to have to find buses somewhere. We must invest in it and have an integrated system.I always thought it was a waste to have school buses dropping children to secondary and primary school, only for the buses to sit there doing nothing for the bulk of the day and then go back at 3 p.m., or 4 p.m. for the secondary school students, and that was it. An integrated system whereby the buses do the school bus runs but also provide other Local Link services would be a better way to go. We talked about drivers aged 70 having to retire as well. That is something I support being looked at.

Special transport was put on for Ukrainian children. Could that be integrated? I know of families who would see the bus collecting the children from Ukraine who were living in the community to take them to school, yet they had no transport. This bus was going by their doors. There was space on the bus yet they could not use it. It is also better for the children attending the local school to be integrated as much as possible.

There is a significant amount of money being spent on bringing students with additional needs to school. That is necessary but, in many cases, the children are travelling long distances. The Minister of State with responsibility for special education knows this better than me. If more special classes could be opened in schools, it would mean children would not have to travel long distances past their nearest school to get the education they need, the most appropriate education, and they would be able to use school transport.

Laura Harmon (Labour)
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I am sharing my time with Senator Cosgrove.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Laura Harmon (Labour)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus gabhaim buíochas leis as bheith anseo linn inniu. Families in Ireland are facing extreme challenges in accessing school transport. Children all over the country, particularly those in rural areas, are being let down by inadequate transport links. This is an access to education issue. In August, parents in many areas across Ireland were notified that school buses would not be provided for this academic year. On behalf of the Department of education, Bus Éireann had to reduce its scope for school buses, despite extensive efforts, it stated. An over-reliance on the private sector was cited as the cause for this, due to capacity constraints in Bus Éireann. We heard from Senator Tully that there is a 95% reliance on the private sector. This is a clear indicator that the current system of operation is not fit for purpose and is creating barriers to education for certain children, rather than breaking those barriers down. Children who are disabled also need to be accommodated in terms of school transport. My colleague, Deputy Eoghan Kenny, recently cited a case in Cork where 46 pupils had signed up for a school bus, yet none was sanctioned. He also heard from constituents that some young students had been refused bus places by the Department on grounds that their school is not in feeder distance, when in reality it is.

As a result of Government failure in delivering this resource, families are being forced to rely on lifts from neighbours or to drive excessive distances themselves. Oftentimes we see parents having to give up valuable hours of work, or their job entirely, to facilitate their child's attendance at school. The demand for places has outgrown the system and families in Ireland are paying the price. The current criteria, capacity limits and process are not fit for purpose.

The Labour Party's manifesto last year proposed the integration of school transport with Local Link and rural bus services. This kind of connectivity would be transformative for communities. The Department of Transport needs to take ownership of this problem. We need to ensure that every child who needs a place can access one for free and we need to see alignment between policy on feeder schools and the reality on the ground to allow all students access to education. Adequate transport is a vital part of ensuring equal regional development. In general, villages and rural areas are lacking effective and timely public transport. An urgent expansion of these services alongside the development of adequate school transport links needs to be a priority for the Government. We in the Labour Party implore the Minister of State to conduct immediate further reviews of the transport system with a view to delivering full system reform.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit. I will continue on from what other Senators have said. During the summer, we all got phone calls about the lack of school transport. One girl I want to mention who lives in Sligo has been taking the school bus every day since she started in junior infants. This August, her school bus application was refused because of the lack of available places. She is in her final year of secondary school and has significant health challenges. She has a form of a disability which means she is unable to walk any significant distance. As there is no Local Link or Bus Éireann route servicing her home, she has to remain in school until her parents or friends are able to collect her. This is a time when she is just about gaining confidence in herself. She should be gaining more independence but she is stuck back in school. She is again dependent on her parents, whom she was just about gaining independence from. She was offered a taxi service, and I know Senator Tully brought this up as well. It is great that she was offered that service, but it defeats the whole purpose of her wanting independence. It is a waste of money in this case as she did not particularly want it; she wanted to be on the school bus with her friends. The school bus is a lot more than just a service to get on and off while going to school. It is much more than that for many children, particularly in rural Ireland, where they might spend 45 minutes or an hour on the bus. It is where their friendships are formed and there is a lot more to it than that.

As Senator Harmon said, the Labour Party is looking for a complete overhaul of the system and an integrated approach rather than just relying on a school bus from Bus Éireann. We need to look at the Local Link services. As Senator Tully stated, there are buses that sit there during the day while we are crying out, especially in my area,, for additional Local Link services. I know the other rural Senators here understand that. We know those services are successful. They really work. If they are integrated under the Department of Transport, we will see older people mixing with younger people on buses at a time when people are feeling isolated and there is a lot of loneliness experienced among many members in our society, particularly in rural Ireland. This could be a way to totally alleviate this.

We would love to have the whole idea of a radius completely gone. Why have this radius? Whether or not a school is the nearest one, there should be a bus place available for every child who needs it, regardless of whether they live 4 km or 4.5 km from the school. It causes so much upset when people are maybe a fraction of a kilometre outside the approved space. Is there a way to have a complete rethink of this in order that students would be able to get a school bus regardless of the distance from their particular school?

We need joined-up thinking around the Local Link and Bus Éireann routes. One of the biggest requests in my constituency is for an increase in Local Link services. We know how successful they are. Having all the services incorporated under one body could be a way to alleviate the issue.

Margaret Murphy O'Mahony (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit to the Upper House. I thank him for taking time out of his very busy schedule. Fair play to him, he is always very available to us here. As the Minister of State knows, Donogh O'Malley, who was Minister for Education from 1966 to 1968, introduced free secondary school education for all in 1967. 1967 was a big year for mankind. Not only was free second level education introduced, it was also the year I was born. There is no going back from either event. The world has changed on both fronts.

When Donogh O'Malley introduced free education, there was also free transport supplied. This was changed under the summary of accounting arrangements in 1975, which allowed for a fee to be introduced. Many people give out about school transport but very few give out about the price that has to be paid. Transport for a primary level student is €50 and at second level it is €75, with an upper limit of €125 for families. To be fair, that is very good value, especially when each place is costing €1,100. It is a very good rate. I want to acknowledge the funding, which has doubled since 2018, and has gone from €200 million to €512 million.

School transport has always been of interest to me.I was fortunate enough to live in the town where I went to school so I never had to use school transport. When I was in secondary school, I remember the girls in my class often talking about the craic, romances and so on that happened on the school bus. It was always of interest to me to listen to all those stories. As a former TD and councillor, and now as a Senator, I work with people who have problems gaining school transport tickets. I am very aware of the whole thing.

I will touch on the issue of drivers over the age of 70. I know it is not within the remit of the Minister of State to fix the situation, but it is crazy. Many 70-year-olds are in much better fettle than myself. They obviously must do driving tests and get certificates, but if it would be safe, I think they should be allowed to drive a school bus. That would save an awful lot of hassle. I agree with the proposal made by my colleague, Senator Curley. It may be a good idea to have one ticket for students in junior infants to sixth class and another for students from first year until their leaving certificates. That might cut out a lot of hassle.

The problems around getting school tickets can be hard on students, many of whom already suffer from stress. Particularly moving to a new class, many students and parents are worried that the ticket will not come through. Is it possible to have the closing date much earlier? In an ideal world, one would want to know a year in advance if one was going to get the school bus the following year or not. It would cut out an awful lot of anxiety. It is not rocket science. We all know the number of pupils who will need tickets. The issue could be worked on to make life easier on students and their families. Behind every worried student are parents and siblings who are also worried. It is causing a lot of upset.

Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for attending. I have a number of points to make. I have been in communication with the Minister of State about several bus routes in Wexford where we are looking for additional capacity on services. I acknowledge the 7,000 students who have benefited from a school bus ticket in Wexford. I will highlight, in particular, one instance where I would like a change in how we are currently operating the school bus model. It is a point that I raised in the Chamber earlier today and I have spoken to it previously. The point relates to Wexford town, the capital town of County Wexford, which has a population of 21,500. It has five secondary schools, which are above capacity at the moment. There is serious pressure and demand to accommodate secondary school students in Wexford town. As a result, a certain number of pupils who in recent years have applied for secondary school places in their local town, Wexford town, have unfortunately been ineligible to get secondary school places. They have instead been accommodated 37 km down the road in New Ross. While the pupils are happy with the school, the teachers and everything else that is happening in New Ross, they have not been able to go to schools in their local town. Due to the way the rules are written at the moment and because they are not attending their local school, they are, unfortunately, ineligible for school bus places. No bus service has been provided for these students. As a matter of simple fairness, in circumstances where students are unable to attend their local secondary schools because the Department has not been able to provide places, an accommodation should be made. We should change the school bus and transport route rules to allow for a bus to be laid on for those students to attend.

I have been in contact with representatives of Bus Éireann who have told me that because the rules are written the way they are, those students will not be eligible for a bus. The students now find themselves needing their parents to take time off work and away from other commitments to allow them to attend the school. I implore the Minister of State. I ask the Department to look at the unique circumstances, make an accommodation and roll out a pilot scheme for that particular situation. While I could highlight many other cases, the key priority for me is to represent those families and to be a voice for them to the Minister of State and to highlight their concerns.

There are proposals for another secondary school in Wexford town but that is several years away. This issue is going to continue for the next five or six years. We need action.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I thank him for coming to the House. He is always amenable to talking about this and other topics. As a townie who used to cycle to school, I am a little disappointed to hear from my colleague, Senator Murphy O'Mahony, how many romances I may have missed out on. Perhaps that was a good thing.

I will not repeat what has been said by my colleagues. The school bus system has, in the main, been a success. Some 172,000 children are accommodated. Funding has almost doubled in recent years. There is also the special transport grant. The Leap fare for children and free travel have helped those who have to travel a distance to school.

All of us here received many calls over the summer. Many parents have been challenged because they had to wait to see if they were going to get bus places. It seemed a random lottery in many ways. I am still working on a couple of cases for parents whose children had tickets from first year but who, out of the blue, did not have places as they were moving into their leaving certificate year, which is a worrying and trying year. We are still not out of the woods with many of those cases. As was mentioned earlier, we are sometimes being held hostage as we are beholden to private providers.

Another area about which I have been contacted is bus escorts and children with special needs, additional needs or complex needs who may need somebody to travel on the bus with them, often for long distances. I spoke with a fantastic therapeutic centre in Drogheda, County Louth, called Sensory Space. It is run by two amazing women, Agne Guste and Jurgita Pakste. They are running special training courses, not only for bus escorts but also for bus drivers, whom they feel need that level of training. They are simple enough courses. Not every child has a very complex need and may just be dealing with undiagnosed ADHD or autism. The bus drivers may not understand if distress is caused, particularly on long journeys or if the children are changing their routines or coming to a different route. Ms Guste and Ms Pakste have suggested that this service, or something similar, could be made available to Bus Éireann drivers, school drivers and volunteer drivers. It is a matter that could be looked into. A simple training course could be made available to anybody who is a bus driver or escort.

I will reiterate what some of my colleagues have said. I know it is not under the remit of the Minister of State, but there are many valuable drivers over the age of 70 who are active and would love to give back and continue to drive their particular routes subject to some sort of licensing test. There are drivers who would love to continue driving.

School transport remains a challenge but I know it is a matter that the Minister of State and others will remain across. Go raibh maith agat for coming to the House.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is welcome. I thank him for facilitating us in the Seanad with statements on an important and topical issue. It is raised every year.

I agree that the overall experience is positive. We often do not hear from the people who are happy and do not have an issue. That is a part of life. Many children are brought to school every day without any issue.

There are always concerns around the students who are not attending their nearest schools and those who fall just outside the thresholds for primary and secondary and all of that. My experience has varied in different years. Though well-intentioned, the removal of those a number of years ago led to an increase in demand despite the good intentions to pursue something desirable. Some positive changes have been facilitated locally through engagement with management through various channels. I acknowledge that. Changes have been made to the first pick-up points and end points of routes. Smaller buses have been rerouted to allow for ten children to be picked up in a rural area. That has had a positive impact for those children and particularly for their parents in terms of peace of mind, safer commuting and all of that. It must be acknowledged. That does not happen quickly. It happens as the result of engagement and if one is raising an issue now, it may be next year before changes can take place. Even if that is the case, it is something that could be laid down for the future, and that is a positive.Therefore, it is important that engagement continue and that local management work with the local representatives, who have suggestions and ideas on transport routes.

Senator Byrne has raised the closest-school issue. I have come across students who, because they chose not to go to the local school, were deemed ineligible for transport to their second-closest school. They were within the thresholds in relation to distance but because they chose not to go to the closest school, they were ruled out. That is slightly different from the point Senator Byrne has raised, which related to students excluded or precluded from attending a school. However, I certainly agree with his comment that this should be looked into, because it was outside the control of the parents in question.

I want to talk about the over-70s. I am sure that the Minister of State and everyone else will know in their hearts that there are issues in this regard, that they should be sorted and that those concerned should be accommodated. To be honest, there could be 71- or 72-year-olds who are fitter and healthier than a 50- or 52-year-old. If they are, follow the procedures and pass the health checks, they should be entitled and allowed to bring children on school runs. I am aware that the Minister of State’s Department, and the Department of Transport through the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, are looking at this, and I certainly hope they can come to a conclusion that can facilitate the over-70s. In some cases, they need to be available for relief driving, which could be for short periods. I believe they could be facilitated on the smaller buses, if needs be, or at least we could start there. There is an opportunity in this regard to provide additional capacity to address many of the issues that have arisen. In some cases, buses are not available, and in many cases drivers are not available. I have dealt with situations where drivers were not available at certain times for a period of weeks, and until drivers or buses were got, the pupils were discommoded. This should be sorted, and I believe the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, will be able to sort it with his colleagues in government.

Joe Flaherty (Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, Senator Craughwell is not here. I am not sure of his position on Fianna Fáil but not only did it introduce free school transport but it also introduced free schoolbooks and free school lunches. I am sure he will check the record because I know he likes to hear the virtues of Fianna Fáil.

I am a bit alarmed as I am probably starting to sound like my colleagues from Labour and Sinn Féin, but I too have reached a point where I believe the school transport system we have now, albeit a Fianna Fáil creation, has been overtaken by circumstances and other developments in transport. For example, we are spending €512 million on school transport while at the same time spending €658 million on the PSO and TFI transport network right across the country. There is a case to be made for integrating the school transport system into the TFI network, particularly in rural areas, to make the scheme more viable. There would be a significant cost saving. If one talks to bus drivers and people involved in the service, they will say the biggest challenge at the minute is finding drivers, but also buses. Ninety-five percent of the buses on the school transport system at the minute are provided by private operators, many of whom are also providing Local Link buses. It is a challenge for them because they have to have two buses out: one to serve Local Link and one to serve the school route. In reality, they probably just need one large bus to do the run, and, if needs be, a smaller bus if the run is successful.

The most difficult thing in my time as a politician has been calls about mental health services and school bus tickets. It is exasperating. When you get such a call, your heart sinks because you know that it is not going to be a happy outcome for the family 95% of the time. Families really cannot understand the concept of concessionary tickets. It makes no sense, particularly where a pupil gets a seat for four years and then suddenly does not get it for fifth or sixth year. It makes no sense to an affected family. It is an injustice to the family because both parents may be working, or maybe the family has minimal income and simply cannot afford to get those children to school.

Many have referenced the fact that transition into secondary school is a huge thing for children with many challenges in their lives. It is not for me to overstate them, but it is a big change. They want to go to a school where their friends are. It might be a small close-knit circle of friends, but they need to be with them to help them through the transition.

Just as the concessionary ticket does not make sense, neither does the nearest-school rule. Life and circumstances have changed. Different schools offer different things. The nearest school might not offer computer science, for example, whereas farther schools will. At the same time, we are trying to encourage young people to pursue STEM subjects. One might have a child that is quite bright and leaning more towards science subjects than general academic ones, and in truth that child needs to go to a school where computer science is on the curriculum and offered as a leaving certificate subject.

It is past time that we admitted the current school transport system is not working. The obvious solution is to integrate it into the wider network of transport, particularly the TFI network, which has been a huge success in the country. I pay tribute to the people working within TFI, particularly in respect of our local scheme. Damien O’Neill operates it from Mullingar. It is a fantastic service and it is continually improving. This is an obvious next step for us as a society and as a Government. If we are serious about the challenges we have in terms of climate and adapting to climate change, it makes no sense whatsoever to run duplicate buses on the same road on the same morning. It does not represent value for money. I would love to see whether a comparison has been done on the value for money achieved with the €512 million we spent in 2024 on school transport. I do not believe there is value for money, nor do I believe the service is meeting the demand. It is creating too much uncertainty for parents, but also for young children.

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the Chamber. I realise he has many hats to juggle in his Department, and that this is just another one. He is doing a great job.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senators for their contributions on the school transport system. In the first instance, the school transport system as it stands carries over 178,000 children, with 8,200 vehicles travelling over 10,000 routes. I pay tribute to the bus drivers the length and breadth of the country who are up early in the morning to make sure children get to school. What they do is important. I was lucky enough to be able to travel by bus to both primary and post-primary school and still remember the kindness of the drivers. Many people will remember them as well. It was remiss of me not to pay tribute to the drivers at the outset. I also pay tribute to the officials in the school transport section in the Department and the Bus Éireann officials, whom we have met weekly since very early in the summer to make sure we would have the minimum number of challenges this year. We met each week to ensure we had covered as much as possible.

We added from last year to this year a number of pilot schemes around the country, in some cases very successfully. Some we still have challenges with in terms of procuring drivers and buses. However, we have put in more buses.

The review done on the period to 2030 is one of the most important documents we are trying to work on to include more people in the school bus system. We have had statements on school transport here in the Seanad this week, we had three and a half hours of statements in the Dáil last week, and Bus Éireann representatives are to be before the committee tomorrow. We were before the committee in relation to school transport the day the Dáil reconvened. That shows the enormous interest public representatives have in the school transport system. Whether one is a councillor, Senator, TD or Minister, one will be aware of the number of people who are in contact daily by various means, including by email and WhatsApp. We have tried our level best to respond to people with solutions. We are here to try. We are not able to turn water into wine in every instance but we certainly try to find solutions.The value placed by students and their parents on the school transport system, on that school bus place or school bus ticket, which enables the family to open other possibilities, whether it is single parent families, whether it is where both parents are working, or whether it is people who do not have access to transport, is such that it is hugely important and hugely valued and we must continue with this.

In the report that was done, we are looking at how we integrate the school transport system into other forms of transport. I am reminded of one of the first press releases I made as a public representative many years ago, which was how school buses, after doing the daily school run, should be used for transport in rural communities, in particular connecting them to larger towns, which I suppose was a precursor of the Local Link service. I remember the reaction to that at the time. There is a huge network of Local Link services but the Department and Bus Éireann have been looking at how to integrate more into the public transport system. That would be one solution because we will have to increase the number of students who are getting on school transport if we are to meet climate targets but also make it more convenient for people to get to and from school. The point was also made by Senators in very colourful and interesting language about the importance of school transport in terms of the social connections that people can make on the school buses and engaging with others earlier in their lives.

We do not have every solution to everything. We take on board the recommendations of Members in terms of looking at it and looking at it again. I am delighted to be working in this section. I know the section very well because I would have experienced it coming from a very rural area and I understand the importance of it. We have challenges but we are working night and day to make sure we meet those challenges head on.

On the timing, I always say that the school bus transport issue is from the Feast of the Assumption on 15 August until well into the school year. I would say 1 October but it is far from that date. We have a lot of issues we need to deal with. The Department and Bus Éireann have been planning the routes and looking at what we can do from November on. Regarding the remarks about the end of April and the deadline of early June to pay or use a medical card number, we can look at how we might bring that back earlier so that we would have the information as soon as possible and be able to make right decisions earlier in the year.

On the other issue raised about how, if you get a ticket in junior infants, you have it for the eight years of primary school, and likewise from first year, that is another issue. We have fewer - a fraction in some instances - not retaining concessionary tickets. The number of people who would have had concessionary tickets in the previous school year and are without them this year is only a fraction of what it was in previous years, so we have brought that figure down. We have a huge amount of work ongoing. I do not think anybody within the sector would say we do not have challenges, but because of the value that is put on the school bus ticket and people wanting it, we will work to ensure we expand the scheme but also make the scheme more accessible and perhaps integrate into the other forms of public transport that the State is paying for to see if we can get better value for money.

I thank the Senators for the opportunity to address the House on this matter and I look forward to working with them on individual queries or issues. I have no problem in doing that, or even come into the House again to answer further questions. Go raibh maith agaibh.