Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, always seems to pull the short straw when it comes to me and my being angry about decisions that are made.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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It is always a pleasure and an honour.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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Let us hope we will both be smiling when I get his response today.

The issue I am raising is a really important one for older people. I know that the Minister of State is passionate about supporting older people in their communities and helping them survive and thrive in their communities. The area that I am talking about is Kilcullen in County Kildare, a beautiful town known to many of us. It has a population of almost 4,000 people and an incredible community spirit that has been there for many decades and many generations. Because of that community spirit, we see excellent sports facilities and a wonderful town hall, along with a thriving Kilcullen community action group and Tidy Towns group.

One of the key initiatives that the people of Kilcullen decided they wanted to have was a daycare centre. Although it is a town that certainly has a substantial population of older people, it does not have a daycare centre. At this point, well over 20 people travel every day to Newbridge, which runs an excellent programme. The whole point, however, is that we need to have people in their own community where they could easily access daycare, meals on wheels services and so on. In 2015, a group of local people got together to develop an old disused dispensary on the edge of the town. At several stages I had the opportunity to see what was going on, to go inside and to support the fundraising efforts. The six people who started this were Albert Keenan, Steve Kinneavy, Jacinta Sully, Antoinette Buckley, Noel Clare and Liz Moloney and they have done amazing work since 2015. Of course, we had Covid in between. They were able to access money from grants and from fundraising. To date, €164,407 has been spent on the building, 71% of which came from grants and was, effectively, taxpayers' money. I know for a fact that the aforementioned people and the wider community relied on local people to give goods free of charge or at a reduced cost, so the actual cost would have been far more if they were paying market prices. It could have been up to €250,000.

The building was renovated and extended by volunteer labour and public grants to become a hub of social activity and day services for senior citizens. I believe that such buildings should have other components within them, and it was agreed that it could be used as a community centre in the evening. These great volunteers, who were driven by a desire to support older residents, support social inclusion and repurpose a derelict building, have done incredible work. This is about more than bricks and mortar. It is about building a future where older people can thrive.

There was an agreement that Kildare County Council would acquire the building from the HSE and help with the running of it, but the HSE made a decision to put it on the open market. After all of those years of volunteers fundraising, getting access to public money and having the lease for ten years, which they needed to acquire the money, they were told that it was being put on the open market. It is a disgrace and I hope the Minister of State has good news for us.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator O'Loughlin for raising this important issue. The programme for Government highlights the importance of community services for older people, which assist them to remain independent and to live in their own homes with dignity and independence for as long as possible. Many older people living at home rely on the services they receive through day centres and the outreach that these centres provide, including meals on wheels. These wrap-around supports also help to reduce loneliness and social isolation.

The HSE has operational responsibility for the planning, management, allocation, delivery and funding of health and social care services such as day centres. This includes responsibility for managing the buildings and other assets used in the delivery of those services. The Teach na nDaoine facility is a HSE facility in Kilcullen, County Kildare. As the Senator said, it is on an old dispensary site that was renovated by the former lessee, Teach na nDaoine Cill Chuilinn, with the intention of putting it to use as a day centre for older people. I have made inquiries. The HSE informed the Department of Health that it had been notified by the former lessee on 13 September 2024 of its intention to commence winding down operations and formally hand back vacant possession of the property. The keys to the property were returned to the HSE on 17 September 2024.

While acknowledging that significant renovation works were completed to the building by Teach na nDaoine Cill Chuilinn during its tenancy, the HSE has stated that additional renovation works would be required to ensure the property was fully compliant with building standards to ensure safety, accessibility, sustainability and functionality. The HSE has confirmed to the Department of Health that there are no plans to complete these works and no plans to open a day centre for older people at this site. As such, the facility is now vacant and non-operational. When sites like this become vacant, the HSE conducts an internal review of potential uses. Following the review in this case, the HSE decided that the property was not required for health service delivery in the area. In line with statutory obligations and regulations, the HSE has subsequently engaged with all relevant State stakeholders, including Kildare County Council, around a potential intra-State transfer or to identify the potential for the delivery of other community services from this site.It was confirmed to the HSE last week that no other State shareholder intends to acquire the property. In the event that an intra-State transfer does not proceed, a disposal is to proceed to the open market. The HSE will now look at the necessary steps to move forward on this basis. Senator O'Loughlin may have other matters to shed light on this issue. I asked for what the facts are as of today, and this is what I have been informed through my officials in the HSE. I recognise that there will be disappointment in the community that the HSE has decided that this is not a suitable site for development as a day centre for older people. However, the HSE has advised that older people residing in the Kilcullen area are currently availing of other HSE-funded centres in the Kildare area, including the day centre in the neighbouring town of Newbridge, approximately 20 minutes away from Kilcullen.

When this matter came to me, I made direct inquiries. This is the information I have been provided with as of this morning. I understand people's disappointment, but they are the facts as provided.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I accept the Minister of State's bona fides on this matter. It is true that the facility is now vacant and non-operational. It is fair to say that the standards now are different from 2015. While the property would have been compliant with building standards in 2015, it is not now. Extra work needs to be done. I will endeavour to get a letter to the Minister of State from Kildare County Council. My understanding - this was well aired on Kfm this morning - is that Kildare County Council refutes this. The council has said that it wishes to take this over. This agreement was in place originally. I will endeavour to get the letter for the Minister of State. I ask for a stay to be put on putting the building on the open market until I can furnish it. Given the money and the love that the community in Kilcullen put into this building, we should ensure it pay dividends for the community. I am disappointed that the HSE is not going to run a centre. I feel that there are enough numbers among older people to enable it to function. If the HSE has no plans to open a centre, a joint operation with Kildare County Council is the way to go. I will endeavour to get the Minister of State that information.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator O'Loughlin for raising this important matter. I ask her to come back to the Department on it. She has stated that she has engaged with Kildare County Council. I will go back through my Department to the HSE to advise it on what she is now looking to do. I assume that Kildare County Council and the HSE are engaging with each other. To bring clarity to light, I ask her to come back to me with an update. In the interim, I will communicate what the Senator is proposing.