Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. This matter is quite a niche one and affects very few individuals in the country who take up and are willing to put themselves forward and put their name on a ballot paper to represent their community, district and county. This matter relates to front-line workers who are full-time firefighters and put themselves in the way of danger at a moment's notice to protect and defend communities. They are often well-known figures within communities and are heavily involved in voluntary efforts.That being said, full-time firefighters are not eligible or allowed to be maintained as full-time firefighters and also hold the position of county councillor. That needs to be addressed and changed, with the Minister of State's support. Retained firefighters are allowed but often, because the cap for income earned is €49,000, the retained firefighters are judged based on their retained firefighter fee but their overall income, which is often more than €49,000, is not taken into account.

This has affected a councillor in Cork in the past who had to relinquish his duties as a county councillor. As we know, because county councillors are not well resourced or well funded even in terms of pension entitlements, which are non-existent, it is financially unfeasible to consider being solely a county councillor. This has affected Councillor Robert Nash in County Louth, who was a full-time firefighter. He has stood down from his firefighting duties and is working full time as a county councillor. This is an example he highlighted to me. It needs to be addressed because we need to encourage people into local government, especially those who work on the front line within our communities. I would welcome the Minister of State's consideration of this matter and possible routes to address this. It is quite a niche matter but there is merit in addressing it. I would welcome the Minister of State's thoughts on this.

Christopher O'Sullivan (Cork South-West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Duffy for raising this matter. He is correct to say it is nuanced. I can see why he is taking the approach he is taking because, first, it is about firefighters, who put their lives at risk to keep us safe. The Senator quite rightly pointed out that the work of a councillor is full time. In many ways, all a person in this situation is trying to do is to do better. Then there is the other aspect, whereby people in similar roles, in the retained aspect of firefighting, can run for election. From that point of view, I can see the Senator's point.

I will set out the legislation and listen to the Senator's thoughts on that. The legislative position in respect of local authority membership is set out in the Local Government Act 2001. The Act sets out the categories of individuals who are disqualified from being elected or co-opted to become member of a local authority. Section 161(1)(a) provides that member of a local authority is not to be employed by a local authority. However, it allows the Minister to designate such classes, descriptions or grades of employments to which this restriction does not apply or to specify conditions under which the restriction does not apply.

SI 216 of 2004 is made under section 161(1)(b) and provides that a local authority employee whose maximum remuneration on the last date for receipt of nominations at a local election does not exceed the maximum remuneration for the post of clerical officer may be elected or co-opted to become a member of a local authority. These provisions reflect the provisions of Circular 09/2009, Civil Servants and Political Activity, published by the Department of Finance, now the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitilisation. The matter of maximum remuneration has been raised previously and, for the avoidance of doubt, my Department issued Circular 03/2024 in advance of the most recent local elections, which clarifies “maximum remuneration” as the maximum basic salary exclusive of overtime, callout-incident attendance payment or any allowances. As of 1 March 2025, the maximum point on the clerical officer pay scale was €46,334. The maximum annual allowance paid to retained firefighters after eight years of service was €17,854, as of March 2025. This level of remuneration means that they do not exceed this threshold and can therefore contest local elections in accordance with the regulations. As of 1 March 2025, the maximum point on the firefighter pay scale was either €57,046 or €57,096, depending on the location. This level of remuneration for full-time firefighters exceeds the threshold, meaning they are ineligible to contest local elections in accordance with the regulations.

In considering any changes to legislation to include grades whose salary exceeds the maximum remuneration for the post of clerical officer, including full-time firefighters, the Minister must be mindful of prevailing provisions in the wider Civil Service. As these remain unchanged, the Minister therefore has no plans to make a new statutory instrument in this regard. As I said at the start, I appreciate where the Senator is coming from on this and the fact these men and women are putting their lives on the line, but the point of the response is where do we draw the line on this when it comes to pay grades. What description of local authority employee do we say can or cannot contest a local election? I guess the fear is this opens it up. I will certainly bring it back to the Minister, but as it stands there are no plans to bring forward a statutory instrument to allow that to be the case.

Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for the reply. Obviously I am disappointed by it and I contest it. The key message in the reply is that section 161 "... allows the Minister to designate such class, description or grade of employments to which this restriction does not apply or to specify conditions under which the restriction does not apply". There is scope for flexibility there. It is a stroke of a pen. It is a power within the gift of the Minister. Regarding full-time firefighters, a small, niche group of people, perhaps one of two at maximum, would fall into it. I appreciate the Minister does not want to open that gate for a host of other elements of the local authority, but firefighters do incredible work in the community. Councillor Robert Nash does incredible work for his town and community and should not be discriminated against compared with retained firefighters who often earn over the threshold. It is something I would like to pursue further and work with the Minister of State on. Perhaps there are ways to follow through on this niche and particular issue.

Christopher O'Sullivan (Cork South-West, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, I will certainly bring it back to the Minister, but that said, I would take into account what I have said about how there is no plan as it stands. There are employees within the council set out under section 161(1)(b). Retained firefighters are one such group, considering the pay scale, but there.is a reason that legislation is there in terms of separation of powers and there is a good reason this legislation is in place to not allow council employees to run for election, especially those in certain pay grades. I get the Senator's point about the incredible work our firefighters do. It is phenomenal. We have seen many efforts being made, especially from the point of view of the retained firefighters, to get increases in their pay scale and salary and these have been successful. However, in this regard it is going to be tricky to find a path to allowing them run for election as the Senator is looking for, but we will certainly have future conversations about it with the Minister.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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As a vote has been called in Dáil Éireann, I ask Senator Duffy to propose we suspend for the duration.

Mark Duffy (Fine Gael)
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I so propose.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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It is agreed.