Joe Conway (Independent)
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Is aoibhinn liom an tAire Stáit a fheiceáil arís agus é anseo in ionad an Tánaiste agus Aire Cosanta ag déileáil leis an Ní i dTosach Suíonna inniu, rud atá an-tábhachtach dúinn sa Teach seo agus sa tír.

Since my election to this House, I have frequently made contributions urging our Government to seriously address our practical and moral responsibility for the protection of our treasured democratic way of life in Europe. It must be clear to all in this House and in the country at large that this is incrementally under threat from what might euphemistically be called "bad actors". The vicious and illegal invasion of Ukraine is a living example of this. Other sovereign states in Europe, for example, Moldova and Georgia, are in Putin's crosshairs as we speak. Many of our European Union partners are being systematically and surreptitiously destabilised by the dark and underhand dealings and machinations of these so-called bad actors. It was with levity in my heart that I read last Saturday morning in The Irish Times that we are to sign up to Security Action for Europe, SAFE, displaying at last a recognition of European realpolitik and its ancillary need to bolster our defences. I hope the Minister of State, in the absence of the Minister, will be able to outline the measures I have no doubt make this an initiative that will augment our risible measures for defence at the moment. They add up to about 0.25% of our spending.

Only last week we witnessed a NATO commitment of 5% budget provisions for defence in the years ahead. Such a commitment is not easy for any state but, for a state like ours, starting from such a low base, it is a big ask. Such a provision is our best defence because deterrence is the best defence. We know from our history that bad actors are opportunistic. They will not engage with an opponent likely to defeat them. The 1930s showed the opportunism and brinksmanship of Hitler as he ramrodded his way across Europe through states that were ill-defended and war-weary after the Great War.Many of us in this country will know the expression "Tadhg an dá thaobh", which implies somebody who tries to serve both sides. I am sure the Minister of State is aware of it. The phrase reflects a position manifested in a country upholding its liberal stance but not taking the pains to defend it.

I ask our Government to set to work, in very close with co-operation with NATO, to engender a grown-up, fit-for-purpose unemotional debate on neutrality. If we do not, as I have said in this House before, a lack of defence will mean we are walking in our sleep down a road to doom.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am responding on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence, who unfortunately cannot be present. On his behalf, I welcome the opportunity to respond on this matter and thank Senator Conway for his question.

The SAFE instrument, which entered into force on 29 May 2025, is an EU instrument designed to provide financial assistance to member states and support their urgent public investments in defence industrial production, aiming to increase production capacity, improve the availability of defence products and address capability gaps, particularly by engaging in joint acquisitions where appropriate.

SAFE is a component part of the broader ReArm Europe plan, which outlines concrete legal and financial means to support the defence investments of member states. Ireland is signing up to this new EU defence initiative and it is anticipated that such participation will speed up the delivery of defence capabilities. By leveraging common procurement opportunities, the SAFE regulation will enable EU member states to focus on priority defence areas and address capability gaps.

Significant progress has been made in implementing the required transformation for the Defence Forces, as set out by the Commission on the Defence Forces. Furthermore, the programme for Government committed to significant investment in defence capabilities. The new SAFE instrument has the potential to assist us in achieving further progress in this area.

As with other European member states, Ireland has significant capability gaps that need to be filled. The SAFE mechanism may provide us with the ability to fill those gaps through joint procurement where there is alignment with other member states. Procuring equipment and materiel with other member states will minimise potential barriers for accessing supply chains while also achieving economies of scale.

It is important to note that Ireland will continue to make its own decisions regarding what capabilities we require, and we will acquire these based on our national defence policy. Participation in the SAFE mechanism has no impact on Ireland’s neutrality.

The financial assistance from SAFE, which amounts to some €150 billion in demand-driven loans, will support member states that wish to invest in defence industrial production through common procurement, focusing on priority capabilities, ultimately strengthening the EU's overall defence readiness. However, there will be no requirement for member states to engage with the initiative should they not wish to do so.

The SAFE initiative offers a derogation from procurement rules that will allow existing framework agreements or contracts held by member states to be modified to add new contracting authorities, provided that the eligibility conditions for common procurement are met. Ireland may draw value regarding efficient procurement of needs within the Defence Forces’ existing detailed equipment development plan.

The programme for Government has committed to increasing investment in the nation’s defence and security. The provision of funding and the political support necessary to achieve level of ambition 2, LOA 2, enhanced capability, and move as quickly as possible to level of ambition 3, with commensurate investment as appropriate, have been clearly outlined. The SAFE instrument has the potential to support and assist Ireland in achieving this commitment.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I welcome all our guests to the Gallery. I would particularly like to welcome John French and his guests. John works in the Houses and is held in high esteem among us here.I also welcome the men’s shed from Navan and our guests from Carolina, USA. They are all very welcome. This is the section where we deal with Commencement matters, which is individual Senators who flag particular issues of concern to them. They bring them to the Chamber here, the relevant Minister comes and responds and there is that bit of engagement. I hope they all enjoy their stay here today and I thank them for visiting us. Senator Conway has one minute to reply.

Joe Conway (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his input. Is he familiar with a deal that was made with the French armaments company called Thales for a towed sonar device to be towed along after our naval vessels? As I was saying in the House last week, any skipper from Killybegs or Dunmore East will say that towing anything at sea is a pretty dodgy business. If they are towing something that is as precarious as looking after undersea cables or gas lines, those tow smart ropes, as they are called in the industry, are particularly vulnerable to salinity, currents, snagging, impact on rocks or on the bottom. There are so many things that can go wrong. In our new SAFE initiative, will any consideration be given by the Government to investing in a state-of-the-art diesel-electric submarine that would be built by our neighbours in Germany? It would have an ability to stay at sea for long times, to really address what is going on underneath the water and would offer a viable way of patrolling our exclusive economic zone.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister of State has one minute to respond.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Senator once again for his contribution. As the Minister for Defence, the Tánaiste’s priority is to ensure the operational capabilities of the Defence Forces are maintained and developed. This will enable the Defence Forces to carry out the roles assigned by Government. Capital investment for the Defence Forces has increased as a result of the commitment by the Government to move to the LOA 2 by 2028 and LOA 3 as quickly thereafter as underpinned by the commitment to €1.5 billion in defence funding in 2028, in 2022 terms. The benefit of participating in SAFE may support Ireland achieving LOA 2 across the defence spectrum and within the anticipated timeframe in many areas, including critical infrastructure, protection and in addressing cyber and hybrid threats. The Government is determined to provide for the development of a full spectrum of Defence Force capabilities that will bring Ireland in line with similar-sized European countries. It is also important to note that Ireland has a vibrant and innovative SME sector. The SAFE regulation has the potential to deliver opportunities for the wider industry, collaboration in defence applications for SMEs in Ireland, and provide an additional route to achieving our enhanced level of ambition and capabilities in concert with our partners in the EU and beyond.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his time and for coming to the House this afternoon. I take this opportunity to welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish, and his colleagues, friends and visitors from Carnmore and Claregalway to the House. They are very welcome and I hope they enjoy their stay here today.