Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here. It is always good to see him.

I raise an issue that I also raised last week. I decided to submit a Commencement matter on it. It relates to a course in the Ballyfermot College of Music, which does excellent work. It has a specific course, a two-year higher national diploma in traditional Irish music performance and traineeship in instrument making, repair and maintenance. It is an excellent course. I understand from one of the tutors, Mr. Niall Crehan, that among last year's graduates are two career harp makers, five career flute makers and two uilleann pipe makers. The harp, as we know, is our national symbol. All we need to do is to look at the seats we in this Chamber are happy to sit on to see our national symbol. Any correspondence that comes from the Government or Departments has a harp on it. As a symbol of Ireland, the harp dates back over 1,000 years. In the past, it has also been a symbol of nationalism. I was fortunate that a near neighbour of mine, Ms Mary Keenan, was a wonderful harpist. Growing up, I had the opportunity to listen to the beautiful instrument that the harp is. We should be doing everything to preserve the harp and the making of it. I got to see one of the samples that Niall Crehan brought to a meeting place. It was an absolutely beautiful piece of art, let alone a beautiful musical instrument.

A total of 23 people applied for the 15 places available on the course to start in September. The sad news, however, is that, as of last Friday, the course has ceased to exist. It has been cancelled. This is incredibly wrong. The uilleann pipes and Irish harp are recognised by UNESCO as our indigenous instruments. I honestly believe that a stay should be put on the cancellation of the course at least until an evaluation is carried out. I appreciate that the Minister of State is stepping in for the Minister, Deputy Lawless, under whose remit this falls. He contacted me to give his apologies; he had other important commitments this morning. He wanted to be here to respond to the matter and he shares my concerns.

The bottom line is that we need to do everything we can to preserve our culture. I understand that the amount of money involved is not very significant. We should be doing everything to preserve our traditions and culture, including our wonderful musical tradition. From last year's class, we already have the possibility of ten instrument makers. It is as much about preserving a craft and tradition as it is about the instruments themselves.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this important matter. I am taking it on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Lawless, who sends his apologies.In 2011, Na Píobairí Uileann established PipeCraft, a dedicated training facility for musical instrument making. In 2017 they developed a partnership with Ballyfermot College of Further Education for a new programme called Irish traditional music performance and traineeship in instrument making, repair and maintenance. This programme is managed and funded through the City of Dublin ETB. The two-year programme is targeted at traditional musicians and singers who wish to develop their practical skills and musicianship. Learners can obtain a BTEC higher national certificate in music general award after year one, which is comparable to the NFQ level 5 certificate. In year two, learners can obtain a BET higher national diploma in music artist development, comparable to the higher certificate NFQ level 6. Some 139 learners have participated in this course since 2017 and to date 102 learners have achieved a higher national diploma level 6, while 20 have achieved a higher national certificate level 5. It is understood that practitioners and musicians value this programme due to its cultural significance, as the Senator has rightly articulated, as well as specialist skills development and contribution to Ireland's living heritage and culture.

The City of Dublin ETB has advised the Department officials that due to the exceptionality in terms of the high costs associated with delivering this programme, it has taken a decision to move the programme to a two-year cycle. The cost of this traineeship significantly exceeds any other traineeship they provide. The City of Dublin ETB engaged with Na Píobairí Uileann in June 2024 while planning for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 academic years. It advised Na Píobairí Uileann that any further spending would depend on available budgets. It is confirmed that the programme is not being discontinued, but it will run a new intake every second year rather than every year. Learners who have just completed their first year last year and this academic year will continue into the second year of the 2025-26 academic year. The new intake for the first year learners will be in the 2026-27 academic year when the current cohort is complete. The City of Dublin ETB has advised that this approach will allow it to continue to support the programme in a sustainable way.

It is appreciated that this may come as a disappointment, particularly for those hoping to see an annual intake of new learners. I have heard the Senator's concerns this morning. I hope the Senator will appreciate that the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has no role in the day-to-day operational management of education and training boards, which are independent statutory bodies. In line with its functions set out in the Education and Training Boards Act 2013, it is the responsibility of each board to plan and deliver services throughout the year, subject to their available budget and local needs.

SOLAS has increased the funding allocation to the City of Dublin ETB from approximately €140 million in 2024 to nearly €152 million in 2025, an increase of nearly 9%. This investment supports approximately 60,000 unique learners across a range of programmes. Since 2020, the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has significantly increased investment in the FET sector by 33%. I thank the Senator again for raising the matter this morning.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. His response is certainly more positive than I had anticipated in terms of my conversations with those in the sector. I acknowledge that the Minister, Deputy Lawless, said to me that under his stewardship no apprenticeship programme would be cut. That is why I was concerned when I learned about this. I am very happy that the programme is not being discontinued but is operating on a two-year schedule. I also appreciate that the ETBs have an independent function. The programmes need to be supported in a sustainable way. My concern is in respect of the 43 applicants for next September. If they have decided this is the course they want to do, I would hope there will be some type of accommodation for them somewhere. In the immediate future, that is my main concern. I do not know if the Minister of State has any note to address that. I appreciate it is outside his own remit.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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I reiterate my remarks to the Senator that it is an important course and I thank her for raising the matter. It is not a solace to the Senator but it is a matter for each individual board to take into account allocated budgets and engage with the different stakeholders. The Minister has no direct responsibility. I will bring the Senator's concerns to the Minister and the Department and ask them to reflect on the comments she has made this morning. It is an important course. There is significant investment by the Government in higher and continuing education. As a former director of adult education, I very much appreciate the remarks the Senator has made this morning about ensuring that learners get access to the course and are properly educated and trained. I will bring the Senator's concerns back to the Minister.