Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, to the Chamber. I ask that speakers be as brief as possible in their contributions because we will need to stop at 3.30 p.m. for the Order of Business. My apologies. It is the impact of the vote in the Dáil.

Does Senator Nelson Murray wish to proceed? I apologise; we need to proceed as the Minister of State is here.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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Will I be able to get an answer?

I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I wish to raise the issue of apprenticeships in the furniture industry. Some say that the great wind of 1839 was the start of the furniture industry in Navan, County Meath. The big wind occurred on the afternoon of 6 January and swept across Europe, causing major damage and resulting in several hundred deaths. We had a plentiful supply of trees, the tools were there on the ground and we were ready to go. Fast forward to the 1960s and 1990s, and furniture in Navan was huge. Upholsterers and cabinet-makers were members of almost every family, with 70 to 100 furniture-makers in the town. Navan is only an hour from Dublin, as everyone knows, so people came in their droves to buy furniture. My dad was one of those manufacturers.

The apprentices of the fifties became the factory owners of the sixties, and the cycle repeated itself. At one stage, out of a population of 6,500 in Navan, 1,000 to 1,200 people were employed in the furniture industry. In fact, furniture was so big in Navan that each year we had a massive trade show, where manufacturers came together to showcase their stunning pieces.

These days, there are probably ten to 15 places still manufacturing, which is a far cry from the glory days. It is not just a trend in Navan, it is across the whole country. We see thousands of imports, including flatpack, particularly from Asia, coming into the country.

It is very hard to get your favourite suite re-upholstered. Years ago, people invested in a suite and got it re-upholstered but, sadly, we do not see much of that anymore. It is a dying trade, which is unfortunate. We all have to admit that nothing is as nice as getting furniture made locally. Upholstery is not just about having your suite made. It is about upholstering bar stools and restaurant furniture. It is specific furniture for bowling alleys. It is the seats people sit on in aeroplanes. It is the upholstery used in caravans and mobile homes. It is a skill for boats and ships.

We had this skill in Ireland but we are losing people in this industry because we do not have a specific apprenticeship scheme. I have been told by manufacturers that in the next ten to 12 years this trade will be completely lost. The Minister of State will be hard-pressed to find an upholsterer now who is not out the door busy. The average age of people in this industry is 50 to 70 years. If we do not act now, the skill will be gone. We will end up having to import even more furniture.

We know only too well in government how far we have come with the excellent programme of apprenticeships we have now. We know of the choices young people have when it comes to what they can do after they leave school.We have 66 apprenticeship programmes currently and none of them are offering furniture upholstery, polishing, cutting, seamstress or frame making. When my dad was 12 he went straight into an upholstery apprenticeship for four years and was a highly skilled and valued worker in the 1950s. He was in such high demand. My dad could look at any suite and know exactly how to make that suite, go back to his bench, take down a roll of cloth and cut it without any templates. There are many reasons we stopped programmes like this, including imports coming in, but another reason was that the environments many people worked in were not up to the standards they are now. There was no proper programme. I spoke to another manufacturer this morning in light of this. He has taken on two apprentices whom he will train in his way. Imagine if he was supported to do this. Imagine if those people were taught the educational side as well as the practical side. I looked up a similar programme in the UK that states:

The broad purpose of the occupation is to produce upholstered furniture by preparing and cutting fabrics, creating/repairing frames and joints, selecting and applying suspensions and upholstering frames ... In their daily work, an employee in this occupation interacts with a range of colleagues including production/manufacturing managers, quality technicians, production leaders, designers and product developers.

I am thinking of a furniture craft course, one for upholstery, maybe one for sewing, and one for frame making. It would have to start small but I truly believe this could be something that would ensure we do not lose this skill in our towns and villages.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank Senator Nelson Murray for her question on this important issue for my Department. I thank the Senator for what she said about furniture making in Navan. People of my generation are very aware of how important that was and still is.

To answer the Senator's question, under our action plan for apprenticeships 2021 to 2025 a key objective is to ensure that apprenticeships will be recognised and valued by employers all across the economy. It is great to hear of the furniture industry's interest in being part of a new apprenticeship programme. While there is not currently a specific upholstery and furniture making apprenticeship, the existing wood manufacturing and finishing apprenticeship offered by six different education providers, including the Louth-Meath Education and Training Board, trains apprentices on skills that are relevant to many aspects of furniture design and manufacture. Qualified apprentices from the wood manufacturing and finishing programme can cut, shape and join wood and wood-based products using woodworking machines, power tools and hand tools and can manufacture household furniture items including chairs, table and doors. There are 411 apprentices on this programme nationally. A major strength of the apprenticeship programme is the strong bond between industry, education and the training system. Working with the National Apprenticeship Office, NAO, which has responsibility for all aspects of the management, oversight and development of the apprenticeship system, industry sectors can develop and establish new apprenticeships that address critical skills needs.

If the furniture industry wishes to submit an application to establish a specific furniture making and upholstery apprenticeship, it can do this through the National Apprenticeship Office, following the ten-step process for setting up new programmes. The NAO is very open to proposals from industry sectors where there is an ongoing skills requirement and where the work-based approach is particularly suited to the apprenticeship model. The first step is to make the initial proposal setting out the evidence industry-wide to show where the skills needs are. That has to be evidenced by support from 15 to 20 employers. For the application to succeed, it has to be shown from the start that there is no significant curriculum overlaps of more than 50% with any existing programmes.

Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry to have to stop the Minister of State there. We have gone over time, unfortunately.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State.