Seanad debates
Thursday, 12 June 2025
An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business
2:00 am
Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on delivering a world-class education system that breaks down barriers and ensures every child can achieve their full potential, to be taken at 1 p.m., with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes each, all other Senators not to exceed five minutes each, time may be shared, and the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the issue of swimming pools. Before we broke for the June recess, I spoke about water safety but today I wish to speak about the need for swimming pools. In my constituency, there is a good active group in Loughrea trying to get a pool for the area. One of the biggest issues when we were out knocking on the doors was the fact that a population of 6,000 people did not have a pool. Due to the good work of the committee, its expression of interest was accepted by LEADER last week. Now, the group is going to make an application for capital funding to determine the feasibility of a public swimming pool in the area.
Of course there is a need for a public swimming pool because at the end of the day, we do not have a publicly funded and owned swimming pool in south Galway. All of the children are missing out on the opportunity of learning how to swim as part of their curriculum. There is a fantastic lake in Loughrea but, unfortunately, one cannot go there in the middle of November, December or January to learn basic skill sets like water survival and how to be safe in the lake. Regardless of that, the wider catchment area of 12,000 young people would say there is a need.
Building on that piece - I have no doubt that I will be helping the groups with its LEADER application - I acknowledge the relentless work of Mr. Colm O'Donnell and what he has done, but Galway County Council will need funding as well. That is why I call on the Minister with responsibility for local authorities to ensure this is in his budgetary submissions. I am talking about Loughrea, there are many Loughreas around the country where large urban centres do not have access to the basic skill sets derived from accessing a public pool. The shovel-ready funding required when the feasibility is done will be approximately €3 million. We need to put infrastructure in place so that our young people can have skill sets. When we lose 120 people annually because of tragic drownings, we have to question if we have the necessary infrastructure to ensure awareness, understanding and, most importantly, the skill set to survive. Coming from the banks of the River Shannon, I learned to swim when we went on a bus every Saturday evening to either Nenagh or Ballinasloe. That was 20 km away. I am now at the level of a lifeguard, believe it or not, and my children have learned that. We did not have a pool, so we travelled, but we were a small town. In a town the size of Loughrea, it is incumbent on all stakeholders, including the local authority, the rural development company and anyone who has a stake, to ensure we support our youth and our wider population.
Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Before I move on to the next speaker, I welcome the students from New York University to the Gallery today. They are very welcome. I hope they enjoy their visit to Leinster House and Ireland.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I have in my hand the recommendations from the report by the Housing Commission, which was recently published. The commission was established in December 2021. At that stage, there were 8,900 homeless people, including approximately 2,450 children. Today, nearly three and a half years on - that is, two and a half years of work and a year of a delay - the number of homeless has nearly doubled, with 15,580 homeless, including 4,775 children. This is the backdrop against which the commission's report lands. The report rightly concludes that housing must be seen as a national priority. There are 83 recommendations around providing shelter - not only that, but also providing social cohesion and support our economic future.
The question that was constantly asked at the housing committee the other day was, why has the commission's work not been implemented? Why has it only accepted to appear before the committee a year after the report was published? There were two and a half years of meetings and hundreds of hours with input from experts, academics and housing bodies, so what have we done with it as an Oireachtas? Have we disagreed with the findings? Were there no immediate recommendations in the findings? I have looked through them, and there certainly seem to be. Was it shelved for other reasons? It looks to me like we are in paralysis and that the way we established the commission and did not deal with it was chaotic. We say time and again that homelessness and housing are priorities but it seems we as an Oireachtas are not behaving in that way. Perhaps the most damning reality is that there were amazing experts at the commission, people who offered a game-changer. They had the knowledge and made the recommendations but, unfortunately, we are not working together. That has to change. I wonder if it is a cultural problem rather than a structural problem. When the pandemic hit, we all clicked fingers and got everything done. When 100,000 Ukrainians came to Ireland and needed refuge and accommodation, we clicked our fingers and got it done. When it comes to housing, though. the urgency does not seem to be there. The Leas-Chathaoirleach will know that, in my own work of working with people who come from addiction, homelessness, etc., we have seen amazing things happen with people turning their lives around and going against the very culture they are coming from.
It is not just about supply; it is about taking down the barriers of red tape, silos and all the delays that there are. We are facing a generation of younger people without housing. That there are 4,775 children in emergency accommodation is unforgivable. We need courage and collaboration but, above all, joined-up thinking, which I have called for before. We need a debate in this House and the commission needs to be brought in and for us to discuss the recommendations. Let us start implementing them.
Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome Deputy Michael Murphy and his guest to the Gallery.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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The trade union Fórsa represents over 2,300 school secretaries and approximately 500 caretakers. It recently held a ballot, which closed at 12 noon yesterday, on whether to take indefinite strike action. Some 81% of the members took part in that ballot, 98% of whom voted in favour of indefinite strike action. It was practically unanimous. That is due to start on 28 August to coincide with the start of the new school year.This matter relates to pension provision under the single public service pension scheme, which is being denied to them, even though standardisation of pay was granted to school secretaries in 2023 and will be granted to school caretakers later this year. I taught in a school for many years and know the work that secretaries and caretakers do in schools. Schools would not function without them. Many schools are not going to open in August if this strike goes ahead because teachers and SNAs will not cross the picket line. Even if they do, the schools will not function without secretaries and caretakers. I ask that the Minister for education and, more importantly, the Minister for public expenditure, resolve this dispute. They have over two months to do so before the strike goes ahead. I urge them to resolve the issues and engage with Fórsa to get a resolution as quickly as possible.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
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Imagine being a five-year-old in the town of Hostomel at the start of the war in Ukraine. One morning, the war reaches your door. Members of the Russian army burst in, occupy your house for weeks and you and your parents are forced to live in the basement, feeding off scraps until finally you are moved to Ireland, where you are welcomed into the town of Kinvara and the Merriman Hotel. You go to the local school and you make great friends. You engage with a speech and language therapist because you are so traumatised that you have been left with a stammer. You join the local orchestra in Gort and develop a network of friends. You have a support network around you, and you feel at home. You have been made to feel welcome in your community. Then, all of a sudden, a few months ago, you are told that you need to be moved out of the Merriman Hotel and will be moved west of Galway city to the Connemara Coast Hotel. Something does not add up in the system when people move to our country to be looked after, only for two Government agencies to fail to work in tandem and for one of them to decide that it needs to move people out in order to house other refugees who, very legitimately, need to be housed in our country. There is a breakdown in communications there.
I would also like to support Senator Rabbitte. I grew up in Loughrea. When I was four years old, people came to our door fundraising for a swimming pool. Thirty years later, there is still no pool in the town. One of the major issues we have, and I would like the Minister to come to the House to discuss it, is that only towns with populations of 10,000 or more are entitled to Government funding for swimming pools under the national planning framework. That needs to be changed. We have a lake in Loughrea. Unfortunately, over the years, there have been tragic drownings there. Any town in Ireland the size of Loughrea, whose population is approaching 7,000, deserves a swimming pool. By the time a swimming pool is built, there will be 10,000 people in the town. That is a given. It is going to take two or three years to get this over the line, and the population of Loughrea is constantly rising. It is something we need to do urgently.
Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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On Tuesday, I made a statement with respect to the Crotty case in Limerick. The point I made was that senior politicians rushed to condemn all the members of the Defence Forces. I also made the point that a young officer, a commissioned officer of this country, went to court because he was obliged to do so, and gave a report on Crotty's military record. Somehow or other, my friend and colleague Senator Rabbitte misconstrued that as me supporting Crotty and his thuggish behaviour. I have no time for those who commit violent acts, whether against women, men or children. It is outrageous that anybody would support such an individual. However, I again say to those who condemned that young officer that it was us who put the rules in place, namely the Defence Forces regulations that the officer is forced to live by. Condemning him was outrageous. That will follow the man in question right through his career. He deserves an apology from this House. He deserves an apology from the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence. He deserves an apology because all he did was what he was obliged to do. Crotty deserves what he got, and may he rot in jail for as long as it takes for him to realise the impact of what he did.
Ultimately, a commissioned officer in this country is obliged to do what the Defence Force regulations lay out for him. If he is assigned by his commanding officer as the person to appear in court, then he has to go there. My heart goes out to him and the other decent men and women who serve this country 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and do so with pride. Thugs exist in every walk of life, and they all need to be weeded out.
PJ Murphy (Fine Gael)
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I wish to draw attention to the questionable special areas of conservation, SAC, protection status of three bogs in south-east Galway, namely Ardgraigue, Barroughter and Clonmoylan bogs. These were designated to be sites of community importance, SCIs, in 2002. Under the habitats directive and EU rules, if SCIs are intended to be made SACs, this must be done within six years of them being designated SCIs. These three bogs, where local families have cut turf for decades, if not centuries, were made SCIs back in 2002 but were not made SACs until 2021. Under of the habitats directive and other EU regulations, that was 16 years too late. In April of this year, local families went to cut turf as they have done every year in the past. A High Court injunction was granted within 48 hours ordering them to desist from doing what they have done for generations. As law-abiding people, they did so. They desisted and they have not returned to save the turf that is sitting, wet, on the turf banks. These are law-abiding people. They do not want trouble.
The National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, is attempting to force people to stay off their own property and to stop doing what they have done over for generations. I call into question the legality of the SAC status that the relevant authorities are trying to enforce here. This problem can be solved very easily, the fear can be taken from these people and they can return to their bogs if an activity requiring consent, ARC, order is signed by the Minister allowing them to return. I urge that common sense prevail. I urge the Minister to make these three boglands subject to an ARC within the next week to allow these people to get back in to save the turf that has already been cut and that is sitting wet on the banks. I call on the Minister to intervene quickly to lift the fear from these people on these three bogs in south-east Galway and to let them get back to doing what they have been doing to heat their homes for generations.
Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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Most of us at this point would be familiar with the contractual issue affecting Oireachtas broadcasting workers. These workers are getting a fraction of the pay of similarly qualified workers elsewhere in the industry and are denied permanent contracts that would give them the rights they are due. At present, they are forced to find additional employment or rely on social welfare to make ends meet when the Dáil and Seanad are not sitting. They perform a vital service, making sure the public is informed of events in these Houses. It is well past time they were treated with dignity and respect. The Oireachtas has a multimillion euro contract with a private company to provide staffing for this service and, yet, its broadcasting employees are only paid, on average, €12,000 annually. Given that this contract is up for negotiation, I ask that this issue be brought to the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission in order that a fair resolution can be agreed and the rights of these workers respected.
I also ask that the Minister for Justice come to the House in order that we can ask him if he is satisfied that proactive measures are being taken to identify any former Israel Defense Forces personnel who may have been involved in war crimes or genocide who are entering this State. I recognise that all Israeli citizens are required to serve in that country's military forces.Will the Deputy Leader ask the Minister to confirm whether background screening is taking place of Israeli citizens entering this jurisdiction, whether as tourists, on a work visa or in any other capacity, to ascertain whether they have been involved in any manner in war crimes? Government members regularly say how shocked they are by what is happening in Gaza. We need real action and this would make a difference in ensuring Israel faces consequences and the people involved in genocide and war crimes are held accountable.
Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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The recent RTÉ exposé on nursing homes in Dublin and Laois was heartbreaking to watch. Vulnerable elderly people - our mothers, fathers, grandparents and neighbours - were left without dignity and proper care. Yet, the Government continues to outsource elder care to private corporations, many of which put the bottom line before people. It was shocking to watch an elderly man ask repeatedly to be taken to the toilet, only to be told to stay in bed and pee in his pad. Elderly people who paid tax and contributed to the State now find themselves victims of abuse.
The provider at the centre of this scandal, now rebranded as Emeis Ireland, is due to open a new facility in Cavan later this year. The company was already in controversy in France. How in the name of God was a red flag not seen? Why did HIQA not undertake due diligence? Five years on from the start of the Covid pandemic, we are still waiting for adult safeguarding legislation to be enacted.
I have received confirmation that the older persons grant fund in County Cavan is now exhausted. The letter said it is temporarily paused but the problem, in fact, is that the fund is exhausted. This has happened because the Government has failed once again to allocate sufficient funding to help keep older people in their homes and in the communities they have built.
What is most galling is that there is action only after scandals break. The approach is all reactionary, with no prevention. It is 20 years since the Leas Cross scandal and we have learned nothing. Ireland is becoming an outlier in elder care. Other countries invest in models that allow people to age with dignity, surrounded by family and with proper support. We instead commodify care and treat people as profit margins.
Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senators for their contributions. Senator Rabbitte raised the very important issue of the need for swimming pools in the country generally, and in Loughrea specifically, to support people living in the hinterland. She made an excellent point. To be fair to the then Minister of State with responsibility for sport, Deputy Thomas Byrne, he published a national swimming strategy last September, which included 55 recommendations for improving facilities, provision of new facilities, better coaching and increased safety awareness. The Senator mentioned that 120 people died by drowning last year, which is a very high number. I think of all those families, neighbours and communities left devastated. Another aspect of the national swimming strategy is to reflect our good success in the Olympic Games with our elite swimmers. It is important we give young people the opportunity to excel and come through.
It is really good news that the expression of interest by the group in Loughrea has been accepted by the LEADER programme. I acknowledge the work done by Colm O'Donnell, whom the Senator mentioned. It is so important we have volunteers like Colm and the people on the committees in different areas putting pressure on us as public representatives. I totally empathise with the Senator's point because Newbridge, with a population nearing 30,000, does not have a public swimming pool. We really need to prioritise provision in this regard. I will look for a debate with the Minister of State with responsibility for sport, Deputy McConalogue, on the report launched by his predecessor to see where the gaps are in provision, not only in Loughrea but around the country. I really hope we get a response and some support in regard to Loughrea. Senator Rabbitte's call in this regard was endorsed by our colleague Senator Curley.
Senator McCarthy spoke about the Housing Commission report from 2021. There is no doubt that homelessness is a blight on our society. It is shocking to see the numbers going up each year but it is unfair to say the Government is not treating it as a crisis. It absolutely is doing so and it is putting many measures in place. A number of different groups of people are impacted and we need different measures to meet their needs. People who are homeless must be the priority. Renters are also a priority, which is why we had a new strategy this week that seeks to strike a balance in the sector and bring rent surety, in terms of both tenure and cost. To be fair, the Government absolutely is treating the issue as a priority. The Minister, Deputy Browne, has developed a number of initiatives since he came to office.
Senator McCarthy made a fair point in regard to the implementation of the recommendation from the Housing Commission. As a member of the housing committee, he is well positioned to address those concerns. That committee is the best place to have an in-depth conversation with the experts who made up the commission. I have no doubt this will be a key topic on the committee's agenda. We talk about housing a lot, which there certainly is a need to do, but we also need to look at developing sustainable communities, which includes provision of facilities such as swimming pools, as Senator Rabbitte raised. My county of Kildare has seen rapid development, with a lot of new housing in Kildare town and Newbridge in particular. We are not matching that housing development with provision of the infrastructural facilities we need. That must be a measure for consideration in everything we do.
Senator Tully spoke about school caretakers and secretaries and the ballot this week on industrial action. I worked closely with Fórsa as Chair of the education committee in the previous Oireachtas. The union does excellent work. I support the caretakers and secretaries in what they are trying to do. They are the heartbeat of schools in every community. I will ask the Ministers for education and public expenditure to work on this issue over the next two months to ensure there is no delay in schools reopening on 28 August. I will ask that the Minister for education come to the House to discuss where we are with this matter and look at ways we can support our whole-school communities. All the staff within a school community do excellent work and we all rely on them.
Senator Curley talked about a five-year-old in Kinvara who came from Ukraine, has experienced a lot of instability in his short life and has now developed a support network in the town. I give my thanks to the community in Kinvara and the communities right around Ireland for supporting the Ukrainians living there. We have a situation now where the demand for accommodation for Ukrainians is falling away and we must take a value-for-money approach. Contracts are not being renewed, and should not be renewed, if there is not a need for such accommodation. We must look after taxpayers' money. I do not know whether the Senator has had an opportunity to liaise with the community engagement team. In similar situations, including in Newbridge, where there were a number of students living in the IPAS centre and due to do their State examinations who were going to be moved, people have been granted leave to stay to do their examinations. I recommend that the Senator liaise with the community engagement team. I am happy to give him the contact details if he does not have them.
Senator Craughwell referred to the Crotty case, which he also raised on Tuesday. I welcome his clarification that he does not in any way support the actions of Crotty, who is a former member of the Defence Forces. It is important to acknowledge that clarification.In a situation where a member of the Defence Forces is carrying out instructions from senior members, they in no way should be vilified in a personal way for the actions they are taking on behalf of the Defence Forces. Knowing many of them, as I come from Kildare, we have excellent people within the Defence Forces. It is very difficult for them when one of their own is in the spotlight for wrong behaviour. It is the same in any profession. It is the same in our profession as well, so we must always stand up for professions and the good, decent and honourable men and women who are there.
Senator P. J. Murphy spoke about the three pieces of bog in Galway that were designated SCIs in 2002 and about the ban on cutting turf. Under EU laws, these should have been made SACs by 2021, but that was actually done too late. The Senator spoke about the families who went out to foot the turf in April and there was a High Court injunction. As I come from the Bog of Allen, I am very familiar with the culture and tradition of bog cutting and I always feel it was such a shame we lost that and are on the point of losing it in other areas. The Senator has questioned the legality of the status and mentioned that an ARC can be written by the Minister. I suggest Senator Murphy put in a Commencement matter very specifically on this issue to get a very specific response from the Minister. Certainly, while we have to have respect for European law, we have to have respect for our environment and the heritage of our bogs. I recommend the Lullymore Heritage Park in Kildare to anyone who has not been there. It has done tremendous work in preserving the culture and acknowledging the bogs and the importance of employment, etc. I recommend people go there. I can imagine it is a big issue in Galway and for Senator Rabbitte, but we need to get clarity on it and we need to support the families there.
Senator Andrews spoke about the Oireachtas broadcasting workers and the contract being up for negotiation. I agree with the Senator that we need to have a fair resolution while that the contract is up for renegotiation. We should absolutely be supporting everybody who works in these Houses. During Covid, it came to my attention that the cleaners, who do an excellent job and were obviously particularly busy during that time, had no place to store their coats and no place to store their items. They were not allowed into our canteen to take a break or have tea or coffee. It was shocking but we were able to rectify it by bringing it to the attention of the commission and we need to rectify this too. I thank the Senator for raising it and it is something we will write to the commission about from this Seanad.
Senator Andrews also asked about background screening for Israelis who enter the country to see if they have been complicit-----
Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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Screening for the Israeli military.
Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, screening for the Israeli military and if they are former members of the military who are coming in. That is worthy of a very specific Commencement matter. It would be difficult to get the Minister for a two-hour debate on that but it is certainly worthy of a Commencement matter. It is also worthy of raising in the foreign affairs committee too.
Senator O'Reilly spoke about the RTÉ exposé on nursing homes. Certainly, it was heartbreaking to watch it and we have heard quite a bit on our airwaves since. We have to do everything to ensure our loved ones who are entering later stages of their lives have everything that will give them the dignity they deserve. Of course, it is not always older people. We have a significant number of people under 60 who are living in nursing homes too. There have to be concerns about HIQA and how long it has taken to act on this. We will have statements in the House next Tuesday with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, who is the relevant Minister of State, on the nursing homes issue. I support the Senator's call about the adult safeguarding legislation and I have raised it myself. It absolutely needs to be implemented.
The Senator spoke about the fact that money had run out in Cavan County Council, but there was money allocated last week to all local authorities to help support older people and those with disabilities. There was top-up funding awarded last week.
Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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On a point of clarity, it was announced on 13 May, yet all Oireachtas Members in Cavan received a letter from the housing authority in Cavan on 28 May. That was after the announcement. Applications are in and so when the application-----
Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Senator, but it is not actually a matter for the Order of Business.
Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I suggest the Senator liaises with the Department and the council and quite possibly put in a Commencement matter on the specifics of it.