Seanad debates
Wednesday, 11 June 2025
An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business
2:00 am
Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re the restoration of a Bill to the Order Paper, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 2, Supports for Survivors of Residential Institutional Abuse Bill 2024 - Second Stage, to be taken at 1 p.m. and to conclude at 3.30 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, those of group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes, those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and time may be shared, and the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 3, Private Members' business, Child Trafficking and Child Sexual Exploitation Material (Amendment) Bill 2022 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 3.30 p.m. and to adjourn after two hours, if not previously concluded.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the guests of Senator Nelson Murray to the Seanad Chamber. I thank them very much for coming to visit us. I hope they enjoy their day. I am sure the Senator will look after them very well. She is working very hard here in Seanad Éireann.
Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I add my voice to welcoming the guests who are here, and I hope they have an interesting and informative visit to Leinster House.
On behalf of my party, I extend our very deepest sympathy to the ambassador of Austria and to the people of Austria on the horrific situation that unfolded in Graz, with the killing of nine people and the maiming of many more. It is shocking to see such a thing happen anywhere in the world, particularly on the Continent of. It is important that we note what took place.
This is Pride month. As I do every year, I look forward to participating with my party in the Pride march at the end of June. It is important that we stand up for the rights of those in the LGBT community, not only in our country but also throughout Europe. It is important to note that there were recent legislative and constitutional amendments in Hungary that infringe on the fundamental rights of LGBTQ people there. These amendments were adopted earlier this year, following other anti-LGBT+ legislation that had already been introduced. The laws in question basically allow fines to be imposed on participants and organisers of events such as the annual Pride celebrations. They also allow the banning of such events. This type of legislation being introduced in Europe has extremely serious implications. It is important that we ask our distinguished representatives on the Council of Europe to raise this matter and that we write to our MEPs. I would like us to seek a debate with the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs to see how we can progress our views on this.
Another issue I want to raise is that relating to the Curragh and the Curragh Camp. I appreciate that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade was here recently to speak about Gaza, but I am seeking that he return to the House to speak as Minister for Defence about the future of the Curragh. The Curragh Camp is the home of the Defence Forces training centre. It has two iconic buildings. One, the Curragh post office, closed in 2019. It was the second-oldest post office in the country after the GPO. On 30 May, the fire service building closed. These two iconic buildings are very important to people in the area. What are the plans for them? The post office has been derelict since 2018. We need to know the plans for it.
Regarding the Curragh itself, we have seen illegal encampments and gallops being closed. Horse trainers pay a fee to use the Curragh. They cannot use it at present. There are problems for people living close to the area. While some gave an indication that they would move on 10 June, 26 remain and are not in any way adhering to the rule of law. The Tánaiste said he would deal with this when he was here, but nothing has happened to date. I would like a debate on the matter.
Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I want to raise a matter that is very important to the community from whence I come and the surrounding area. I am anxious that the Leader speak directly to the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, on foot of this intervention. The Leader is aware that Wellman International, which based in Mullagh in County Cavan, has gone into examinership. The company employs approximately 240 people, many from Meath but also a good number from east Cavan and County Louth. It is an important local employer in an area to which it is not easy to attract employment. This makes it critical. The company has gone into examinership. Given that it is not receivership, there is potential.
I would like the Leader to ask the Minister to be very proactive in seeking and supporting a buyer for it, and to make it easy to buy it. Any support that can be put in place should be put in place. There should be a whole-of-government response, and this should be holistic in nature. I refer, for example, to circumstances where a buyer may want planning permission. Any buyer should be supported through the process of purchasing the operation and maintaining the jobs there. It is critical to maintain the jobs. The first big ask is that we try to achieve this. There is anecdotal evidence there might be a little white in that regard, there but we do not know. It is all only pub talk at this point. We need to get something concrete going there. I ask the Leader to speak directly to the Minister. I would appreciate a direct response in view of the gravity of the situation.God forbid, but if there are to be any redundancies, there should be full support for the workers so that they can be retrained, reorganised or re-employed. The big ambition is to have the company bought, supported and reopened. Anything that can be done should be done, whether it is to look at the existing people, as it is still in examinership, but more likely to a purchaser. I will await a response and we can then take the discussion further.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I raise the important matter brought to public attention by Deputy Allan Kelly at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration yesterday. As court proceedings are still in train in respect of some aspects of the matters raised, I have to be careful in what I say and I will be. However, it appears that three persons, described by the court as "young and naive", were charged with possession of three firearms and ammunition on 2 March 2024 in County Kildare. It further appears that an attempt had been made to purchase firearms on the dark web. It now appears that members of An Garda Síochána met at least one of the three persons charged without revealing their identity and had made arrangements for the firearms and ammunition in question to be delivered to the three young men. It further appears that a controlled delivery took place using weapons already owned or seized by An Garda Síochána. Following the controlled delivery, other members of An Garda Síochána intercepted the car in which the three young men were travelling and arrested them under the Offences Against the State Act. The court was subsequently told that all three men admitted possession of the firearms in question. The court was told that there was no suspected connection with organised crime or terrorism and that the guns were intended for target shooting in the woods. The court was also told that the three young men were childhood friends and that one of them, the late Evan Fitzgerald, had a fascination with firearms. Strangely, it appears that the court was also informed that the Garda was still investigating who sold the firearms to the defendants. It now appears that Evan Fitzgerald, who is described as a "vulnerable young man", was the central figure in an incident at a Carlow shopping centre this year, in which he publicly took his own life in the course of a major incident there.
I am deeply concerned that all of these events could have been avoided if diversion, rather than entrapment and prosecution, had been deployed by An Garda Síochána. I am also concerned that by informing the court in question that gardaí were still investigating by whom the weapons were sold, the court was actively misled. The entrapment and prosecution of three young men for firearms offences involved the gravest of consequences for their lives and their careers. One of them apparently chose to end his own life, rather than continue with the criminal process.
I am also concerned that, according to the Garda Commissioner yesterday, Fiosrú, the watchdog of An Garda Síochána, has apparently indicated no concern in relation to these events. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate in this House on the practice and ethics of entrapment and the need for An Garda Síochána to be frank and honest with the courts in relation to its conduct of such prosecutions. I ask that the Minister for justice come here for such a debate and explain how it is that these events took place.
Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I express my condemnation of the racially motivated violent scenes that we have seen in Ballymena over the last couple of nights. It is very clear that rather than let the justice system run its course and deal with accusations of sexual assault and attempted rape, others have used them to stir up racial hatred in Ballymena and attack very vulnerable communities who are making a significant economic contribution to the town and the surrounding area. It has got to the stage where we have vulnerable people posting their identities on their doors in the hope that their homes and property will not be attacked or burned. It is time for some politicians in the area to dial down the rhetoric and to allow the authorities to deal with this matter and for leadership to be shown in terms of protecting very vulnerable communities in the area. Unfortunately, this is not unique to Ballymena. It has been seen across Ireland. Accusations and incidents have been used to whip up racial hatred. At one time it used to be sectarian hatred but now it is racial hatred. Nonetheless, it needs to be confronted wherever it manifests itself.
On a hopefully more positive note regarding County Antrim, the British Government today will announce its contribution to the Casement Park funding. I ask the Leader to engage with the Tánaiste on this. I know that he has had some engagement with the Government already. It will hopefully be the catalyst that will allow all parties to come around the table with a clear knowledge of what is required to build the stadium, which has been outstanding for so many years. It has deprived a new generation of sports people in Antrim and Ulster generally of the opportunity to play in Casement Park. I know that the announcement of the amount the British Government will contribute should take into consideration, as the Tánaiste has said, the generosity of the Government here in Dublin. It should also allow the Executive in Belfast to reconsider the inflationary impact of the years of non-development of the site and the GAA to consider what increase it could make to its contribution.
This project has been delayed for far too long. The impact the venue's absence on sport in County Antrim, Belfast and further afield across Ulster and Ireland has been keenly felt. The potential economic contribution that such a stadium would make to the city of Belfast and to the island generally should not be underestimated. I ask the Leader to encourage the Tánaiste to lend his weight to immediately gathering all parties around the table to get some momentum into this project at last and get the stadium built as quickly as possible.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I am sorry that I have to raise this very concerning matter today. I had hoped that common sense and the inherent human decency of officials at the Department of justice would have resolved this quietly. I, along with Deputies Martin Kenny and Eamon Scanlon and Leitrim councillor, Eddie Mitchell, have raised this issue with the Department. Deputies Marian Harkin and Frankie Feighan have also raised the matter on behalf of this family. Olesegun Ifade and his family, originally from Nigeria, moved into an IPAS centre in Dromahair, County Leitrim, when it opened 12 months ago. Olesegun has a wife and two small children, one of whom has just a week to complete his year of junior infants' class in the local national school. He could have focused his attentions on his own family but he was determined to contribute as positively as possible to the life of his new community and threw himself into work designed to bring the community together. He was an adult supervisor at the Foróige club. He helped to organise the food stall for the St. Patrick's Day parade and he is a weekly contributor to The Sligo Weekender.
Without seeking to, Olesegun Ifade became a new leader in his new community from the small, cramped conditions of an IPAS centre. However, disputes and tensions arose, which is natural from time to time in the circumstances. However, how these tensions are managed in IPAS centres is the issue I want to raise. Olesegun alleges that during the course of a dispute between families his wife was assaulted. The other party to the dispute complained to the IPAS centre management. Rather than listening and trying to de-escalate the situation, the management took it further and punished Olesegun and his family. As a result, Olesegun and his family were told they would be relocated to an IPAS centre in Athlone. This was supposed to take place on 30 May. Representations from all of the elected members in the area saw this being pushed out to 5 June and then to 13 June, due to a hospital appointment. I am now asking that it be pushed out for one more week to 20 June so that Olesegun's youngest son can finish his junior infants' year in the school. It is a matter of justice, fairness and child welfare that the deadline be pushed out for one more week. I have tried to engage the Departments of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration and Education on the matter. I am hoping the Leader will bring this case to the Department of justice so that it can intervene in the matter.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Before I call the next speaker, I welcome Claremorris National School class of 2025 who are here with their teacher, Lisa Dillon, who might be some relation of Deputy Alan Dillon. You are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. I hope you enjoy your stay. I do not know if you have any homework for the rest of the year but if you do, there will be no homework until next September, if that is all right with the teacher. Anois, an Seanadóir Daly.
Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to lend my support to Senator Murphy's request regarding the stadium in Belfast. I am a very passionate Gael from Westmeath and we hover at around the same level as Antrim in football and hurling. I used to be a frequent visitor to Casement Park. It grieves me now every time I see the footage on the news or another programme of how derelict and overgrown the stadium has become. It is vitally important that Belfast have a strong GAA centre and stadium. We are approaching the five-month anniversary of Storm Éowyn. It is important not to forget it. It is important that we have another debriefing or update debate, possibly with the Minister for Social Protection, on where we are now with the fallout – pardon the pun – from that storm. A few people have been on to me who believed they were covered by insurance but who, having gone through the rigmarole and red tape, are now only beginning to realise that it does not cover the damage they experienced. Therefore, they are looking for humanitarian aid or to apply to join humanitarian schemes, whose closing dates for application, they have been told, have passed. It is important that we do not forget and have a debriefing session with the Minister. I assume the Department of Social Protection is the relevant one because that is where we focused our attention with the supports. I ask that the Minister come to the Chamber to give any Senator with questions similar to those I have just referred to an opportunity to ask them. It would serve as a learning process, if nothing else, if there were a similar storm. We should not just move on now that we think everything is back up and running and that we think people got over Storm Éowyn. People have not got over it. There are people who are still suffering and there is still a cleanup in places. Doors are beginning to close in people’s faces owing to closing dates and deadlines for applications for support or whatever.
Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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I rise today to call for the end of prohibition, a prohibition on the free and open discussion of one of the most vital questions of our time – sex, gender and gender ideology. In a place so deeply personal to so many people’s lives, instead of a fact-based discussion in which we have recognised that each of us has spoken in good faith, we have been treated to a decade of suppression and silence. In that silence, we have allowed a single worldview to shape our laws and society, often without scrutiny, democratic content or regard for the consequences. Just last year, the Council of Europe’s Commissioner for Human Rights published a paper recommending that member states, including Ireland, adopt sweeping changes to how we treat gender identity. These include legal self-identification with no age limits, a third gender on official documents, and free hormones and surgeries, even for children. It also calls for the teaching of gender identity in schools and the recognition of children’s gender identities regardless of age. These are not minor administrative tweaks; these are profound societal shifts that would, if implemented, effectively erase single-sex spaces and sports and redefine the relationship between parents, schools and the State. Yet, where is the debate? Where is the space for parents, teachers, doctors and citizens to ask questions, not out of hate but out of care, concern and a desire for truth? I am here to ask for what should be the foundation of any democracy: open, respectful and evidence-based discussion. Let us lift the prohibition on debate. Let us speak freely, listen carefully and legislate wisely for the sake of our children, society and shared future.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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I received correspondence from Cavan County Council the week before last indicating its intention to temporarily pause private housing grant schemes. I refer to the housing adaptation grants for older people and disabled people, the mobility aid grants and housing aid for older people. The reason the council needs to pause the grants with immediate effect is that it has run out of funding. It has made a submission to the Department of housing seeking further funding. I support that submission today and call on the Minister for housing to provide the funding because it is very early in the year for the council to have to cease processing grants. It will continue to process grant applications with priority 1 status but fulfilling all the requests under priority 1 is also funding dependent. The grants are very important because they allow older people and disabled people to continue living in their own homes. They reduce the possibility of accidents and prevent hospitalisation, nursing home care and the requirement for home care. It is very important that sufficient funding be given to Cavan County Council and indeed other councils that may find themselves in a similar situation to ensure they can actually process the grant applications they receive and allow people to continue to live in their own homes.
Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I support Senator O’Loughlin’s contribution on the condemnation of Hungary Pride. It would be fantastic to have a debate on this issue. I have already raised it at the Council of Europe and will continue to do so. It is a big issue.
I ask for a discussion on further action that we can take regarding Gaza, and particularly what the Minister could do to work with member states to invoke the “uniting for peace” UN General Assembly resolution, Resolution 377(V), to convene an emergency special session of the General Assembly. I have raised this here before and it came up in an unopposed motion by the Labour Party in the Dáil. I would also like this House to call on the Government to impose sanctions on high-level Israeli ministers, as the UK did yesterday.
I also want to raise a matter of serious concern regarding the unlawful detention and abduction by the Israeli occupation forces of civilians from the humanitarian flotilla on Sunday night as they sailed in international waters. While we know no Irish citizens were on board, we know the civilians who were on board, many of whom are citizens of EU member states, were engaged in humanitarian action that many in this country support. Eight of them remain in detention, the conditions of which, allegedly, remain very poor.
Today, my colleagues in the Dáil have introduced a motion to end Ireland’s role in facilitating the sale of Israeli war bonds. These bonds are directly funding Israel’s military action in Gaza, which means the Irish Central Bank is responsible for approving the prospectuses for the bonds, enabling their sale across EU member states. By approving these prospectuses and allowing financial institutions to sell or hold these bonds, the Irish Central Bank is effectively providing the capital to the Israeli state to fund its military actions in Gaza and indeed the West Bank. This is not a neutral act; it has moral and political consequences. I urge the Government to support the motion and urge the House to consider what other actions it can take on Gaza.
Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I have been contacted a lot by family and friends of Nicola Fox. Nicola Fox is an Irish mother who was jailed in England for a month and whose term was recently extended for another five months. Nicola is an Irish citizen. Her crime was trying to bring her son Harry home. She has had supervised access to her son once every two weeks. She has been very vocal and outspoken, which seems to be why she is being punished like this. Harry expressed the desire to stay with his mother, and the English police detained her while she was with her son. There is no allegation that Nicola is not a good mother or that she ever did anything to Harry. She is a broken woman, understandably. It is devastating for her. Imagine that she has to go to a contact centre in a watched environment to see her six-year-old son. She is outspoken and it seems to be that there is nothing else that she can do. However, she should not be punished for speaking out. The Minister for justice must intervene in this case because a mother should not be jailed for months for speaking out on behalf of her son. It is important that the community in the south-east inner city receive clarity as to why the family courts reached their decisions. Above all, Harry needs to be protected. This has exercised people, including the Minister for justice, given Nicola's incarceration for what will be six months or longer. It is just unacceptable and some sort of intervention and clarity need to be brought to this.
Joe Conway (Independent)
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I want to address an issue that has cropped up only in the past number of weeks on foot of a very kind and gracious invitation I got from the American Embassy to attend its Independence Day celebrations on the eve of Independence Day, which is coming up next month. Ordinarily, it would have been an invitation that I would have been delighted to accept, particularly as a new Senator. In view of the circumstances, however, I felt obliged to write the following letter to the chargé d’affaires:Dear Mr. Clausen
I want to thank you for your invitation to your Independence Day celebrations in July. As a newly elected Senator I should have been happy indeed to accept it. So, I hope I do not come across as churlish or ungracious, but I feel I must decline it.
It probably will not come as any great surprise to you that this course is taken on foot of events in Gaza and other turmoil in the Middle East. As I said in the Seanad last week, truckloads of words have serried out in Assemblies and media about the conflict there... and will continue to be uttered. But sometimes we get the chance to embolden a little our words with action, and this is one such time.
Nothing is enabling the horrific behaviour of Israel like the steadfast support of the USA. And - even though I am a friend, and fond of the American people - I just cannot on this occasion pinch my nose and look the other way.
Le gach dea ghuí beagnach i gcónaí.
I am just saying that, a Chathaoirligh, not in an attempt to be in any way prescriptive to other Members, but this is one such occasion and method by which we can practically say we abhor the support the United States is giving the government in Israel.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I mentioned in this House recently that one in four people experience some form of mental health problem during their lifetime, which is a significant proportion of the population. I am writing today to urge the Government and, importantly, South Dublin County Council, to address an urgent need in the Dublin Mid-West area for a dedicated Solace Café. These cafés have been put in place before very successfully. They are welcoming spaces where individuals can find refuge, connection and support. The absence of such a space in the area is felt by those struggling with mental health problems, social isolation or simply the pressures they experience in daily life.
A Solace Café would serve as a compassionate hub offering warm beverages, like cafés do, but also a quiet environment and access to resources for emotional well-being and mental health. The initiative aligns with our mental health strategy, and it also reinforces our commitment to community-driven solutions. I mentioned similar commitments and establishments in this House previously that have been made in other regions where they have been very successful in reducing loneliness and providing relief to individuals struggling with mental health before it escalates into a crisis.
It is about creating a sanctuary and connection. I urge my colleagues in this House to advocate for such an essential place in south County Dublin, working with local stakeholders to secure funding but also to identify a suitable location. This is something that would benefit people. Given the challenges we face, it would be of benefit to have such cafés rolled out throughout the country. Members will be aware that I am involved with a charity that deals with individuals with mental health struggles.
Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I thank all Senators for their contributions. I will start with Senator O'Loughlin, who rightly expressed her condolences to the Austrian ambassador on the tragedy that unfolded in Austria yesterday. Perhaps the Cathaoirleach will endeavour to write on behalf of the House to His Excellency.
Senator O'Loughlin also expressed concern at the loss of LGBT rights in places like Hungary and called for a debate with the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs. I will try to arrange that. Michael McGrath is Commissioner for Democracy, Justice and the Rule of Law and he will have a pivotal role there as well.
The Senator also raised issues relating to the Curragh camp. I can make inquiries of the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence. She may have tabled Commencement debates previously on the specific issue of the two buildings she mentioned, including the post office. She might get a more direct response.
Senator O'Reilly raised the fact that Wellman International in County Cavan has gone into examinership, 240 people are unemployed and there may be a possibility of an alternative buyer. I will raise the matter with the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke. It is a very serious issue for the people employed there and their families in the locality. I hope an alternative buyer can be found.
Senator McDowell raised an issue that was raised by Deputy Kelly in the justice committee and called for a debate with the Minister for justice on the practice of entrapment and other issues concerned with the very specific case that he raised and put on the record. I will raise it with the Minister and see if he is able to come in and debate this matter.
Senator Conor Murphy rightly raised the riots in Ballymena, which are racially motivated. He referred to the rumour mill regarding accusations and rumours that can unfortunately get out of hand and that can, at times, be misleading. That may certainly be the case there.
Senator Murphy also raised Casement Park. The Government has promised more than €50 million for the project. He is correct that there have been significant delays in the project and inflation has added to the cost and that there may be a need for additional funding from the GAA and local authorities. I welcome the commitment from the UK Government in that regard.
Senator Cosgrove raised the specific case of a young man doing the junior certificate. If she sends me on the details, I will certainly raise Olesegun's case with the Minister.
Senator Paul Daly asked for a follow-up debate on the impact of Storm Éowyn with the Minister, Deputy Calleary, or the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan. Now that the latter has his communications portfolio transferred, he might update us on the communications network that was so badly impacted by Storm Éowyn. I will request those debates.
Senator Keogan called for a discussion on sexual ideology. I will try to provide that. She could table a motion as well or request a debate under Private Members' business. I will also request such a debate.
Senator Tully raised funding issues for Cavan County Council concerning the housing adaptation grants and housing grants for older persons. It is unusual that the council would be running out of funding at this time of the year. Perhaps the Senator could table a Commencement debate on it. I have not come across it in Galway at this early stage of the year, so perhaps there is a specific issue in that regard which she could raise.
Senator Stephenson called for a debate on Gaza, the detention and seizure of the Madleen flotilla and Israeli war bonds. There is a debate in the other House today and the Minister will give an update on the matter. I will request ongoing debates on those matters.
Senator Andrews raised the case of Nicola Fox, an Irish citizen imprisoned in the UK, and sought intervention on it. I will request an update from the Minister but I am not sure what he can do. The Senator might wish to table a Commencement debate on the issue. Given that it is another jurisdiction, I expect it would have to be direct intervention at ministerial level. To be honest, I am not sure whether the Minister would be allowed to do that, but I will certainly discuss it with him.
Senator Joe Conway declined an invitation from the US Embassy. He read into the record his reasons for that. I acknowledge that. Although I have been here a while, I do not think I have ever gone to the US Embassy. It is not for a particular reason but I do not go on the embassy circuit. I respect the Senator's decision and his putting it on the record as well.
Senator McCarthy raised the one in four people with mental health issues and the ongoing necessity for funding for some of the good projects that are needed in various parts of the country. I support any call for the provision of additional facilities that do such excellent work. If there are specific proposals, the Senator can raise them in a Commencement debate. He can also work with other politicians to try to progress projects in specific areas.