Eileen Lynch (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the Chamber. My Commencement matter is about a review of the widow’s pension and the payment of same. There is a massive anomaly in the system when it comes to the payment of the widow’s pension insofar as if someone is in receipt of the widow’s pension, that person cannot receive any sick pay or illness benefit should she need to go on sick leave from work. It is incredibly discriminatory and unfair. It needs to be addressed.

Unfortunately, when it comes to bereavement, it does not discriminate in terms of age. Many younger people who lose their spouses or partners continue working and raising a family. They are in receipt of widow’s pension, which is based off the stamps of their deceased spouses. However, should they require sick benefit, illness benefit and time off work, they cannot receive the second social welfare payment. I understand the double jeopardy rule insofar as people cannot claim two payments, but this is based off their own stamps. Essentially, the current situation is preventing people who are paying PRSI from accessing their own stamps, should they need to. Surely, the whole point of the system is that people can access it should they need illness benefit and time off work. We are making things incredibly difficult for these people. It is unfair, and it is a matter that is not raised enough. It is an anomaly in the system. It is not the claiming of double stamps. Widow’s pension comes from the stamps of one’s deceased spouse whereas illness benefit comes from one’s own stamps that one has been contributing to.

I refer to the argument that people cannot receive two social welfare payments.That is not always strictly true insofar as you can be in receipt of a social welfare payment and receive a half-rate carer's payment. There are certain social welfare payments to which that rule applies. I get that this is up to a limited period. However, it would help if those who have to go on sick leave could even access illness benefit at half the rate, which, as I said, we see in terms of carers. There has to be a way to address this. The system is incredibly unfair. Those who are dealing with bereavement and trying to raise a family are dealing with it on their own. They are dealing with enough without the worry that they are working full time. These people literally cannot afford to go on sick leave.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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It is great that we are discussing Cork North-West and these issues in general. I congratulate the Senator on her election and wish her every success.

The Department has outlined the various schemes and payments - the pension payments and social welfare payments - the double jeopardy issues and so forth. Everybody understands what social welfare payments entail.

All of us will have come across very genuine cases. The point the Senator made in relation to bereavement can come at any age. The Taoiseach recently stated that this would be looked at – he did not make any commitments - to see whether there is an anomaly in the system and if there is, how best we can work through it.

On the half-rate carer's payment, this was an issue over 20 years ago. At that time, Joe Callanan, a former Deputy from Galway, and I proposed a motion to the effect that there should be a second payment for carers. That is how the half-rate carer's payment came in the noughties. We did a body of work in relation to it because many people were getting State pensions or social welfare payments and caring for loved ones such as siblings or children. The Government brought in the half-rate carer's payment at that stage.

The point the Senator made in that context needs to be explored. If we are looking at the widow’s or widower's pension being paid on the basis of the PRSI contributions of a deceased spouse or partner, then we must consider what is involved. We made amendments to this pension, which were welcome. We all know of couples who have been in committed partnerships for 20 or 25 years. Previously, there was a discrepancy or an element of victimisation there. We are trying to put that right.

The Senator’s point relates to the precedent involved. She asked whether something can be done if a spouse or partner dies and the pension is claimed on the basis of his or her PRSI contributions. In such circumstances, the surviving partner will continue to pay PRSI because they are working. If they have an accident or illness, they still have the same commitments. The Senator inquired if we might explore this matter in the context of social welfare legislation. I will take that back to the Department and ask that it be reviewed. There may be something we can do. We all come across these cases in our constituency work. They are challenging. I am not giving any carte blanche commitments, but I take the point the Senator made. There is work to be done. We will work on the points she made and respond accordingly.

Eileen Lynch (Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the Minister of State’s engagement on this matter and, indeed, the many valid points he made. We are very much on the same page on this. It must be recognised that an anomaly exists. In that context, I refer to the unfairness of the situation whereby a person who is still working and paying PRSI cannot access illness benefit. I commend the Minister of State on the work he said he did in this area previously in terms of the half-rate carer's payment. I do not see why that logic could not be applied to this in the event that we cannot get the full payment. There are so many options that could be looked at to level this up. In the context of the widow's pension, a sliding scale, based on the number of PRSI contributions that the deceased spouse has paid, is used. It is not a fixed rate. I am concerned about the unfairness of it all. I appreciate the Minister of State’s reply.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I will take the point that Senator Lynch made back to the Department. The challenge here is that relating to one person one payment. In 2000 or 2001, the half-rate carer’s payment was introduced. If memory serves, Seamus Brennan, who was the Minister at the time, brought it in. We will explore that.

I want to put on the record the fact that the Social Welfare (Bereaved Partner's Pension) Bill 2025, concluded Second Stage in the Dáil on 27 March. Committee Stage is due to be taken on 25 June next. It is extremely important that Bill is passed because a huge number of families will benefit from it. They face the same challenges and difficulties, and it is important that we make sure the Bill is passed. I will to take the points made back to the Department and obtain a suitable response.