Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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A vote has been called in the Dáil. Members may want to start and we will come back. Whichever you want to do, Minister

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Is that the bells ringing just now?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We have approximately six minutes. We can proceed with the opening part or we can-----

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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It is up to you.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I will proceed, if that is okay.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Senator can do so. We will take the reply when we come back.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. This matter relates to defective apartment blocks and where exactly matters stand in that regard.

In January 2023, the Government announced its approval of draft legislation to support the remediation of apartments and duplexes constructed between 1991 and 2013 and affected by fire safety, structural safety and water ingress issues. It is estimated that between 50% and 80% of all apartments and duplexes constructed in Ireland during that period may be affected, which is staggering. Only properties with defects that are attributed to defective design, defective or faulty workmanship, defective materials or any combination of these and that were in contravention of the relevant parts of the building regulations applicable at the time of construction will be eligible for inclusion in this scheme. The final cost of the overall scheme is estimated to be somewhere in the region of €2.5 billion, which is today's figure. This money will be paid to owner-management companies to carry out these works.

On 11 December 2023, an interim remediation scheme was launched to cater for any apartments or duplexes with fire safety issues. I understand that the interim scheme, as it was referred to, has been stalled as a result of procurement issues. The Minister of State might let us know where matters stand in that regard.

At the end of March of this year, 201 applications had been received and were validated as meeting the required eligibility criteria. These applications represent 19,305 residential units or, as they are for many people, homes located in 28 local authority areas. Circa 77% of these homes are in the Dublin region. This is a serious issue. When it comes to fire safety, we cannot afford to hang around because there is a health and safety issue at stake here for the occupants. The last thing we want is that anything untoward might happen. I would be grateful for an update in relation to the interim scheme.

For many owner-occupiers, these units are their homes. Many of these apartments, particularly in areas outside of the major cities, are still in negative equity, even at today's values, which most people would say are extreme. Many apartments in provincial towns, even at the market level today, are priced probably at half of what the owners paid when they purchased them in 2007 or 2008.

I would like if the Minister of State could tell me where the statutory scheme stands, assure me and the many people who are living in these apartments that this matter is treated with a sense of urgency and indicate when we can expect the scheme to be fully up and running in the context of the various defects by which these people's homes are affected.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Will the Acting Leader to move the suspension of proceedings until after the vote in the Dáil?

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I move that the House stand suspended until after the vote.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Gallagher for raising this matter and for the opportunity to provide an update on behalf of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. As the Senator rightly pointed out, there is currently an interim scheme for people with fire safety defects in their apartments and duplexes where they can and, indeed, are drawing down money to complete remedial works on their homes.

In December 2023, the then Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, announced the opening of the interim remediation scheme for fire safety defects in eligible apartments and duplexes. The scheme provides for the funding of eligible emergency fire safety defect works to provide an acceptable level of fire safety in buildings pending completion of the full remedial works. Apartments and duplexes built between 1991 and 2013 with eligible defects qualify for the scheme. Full remedial works, which will include all necessary fire safety measures as well as those related to water ingress and structural damage, will be funded within the scope and defined parameters of the statutory scheme when in place. Through the scheme, owner-management companies, OMCs, will receive funding to carry out the necessary remediation works. Only applications from authorised representatives of OMCs will be considered and funding is not directly allocated to any individual homeowner.

The administration of the scheme is being managed by the Housing Agency on behalf of the Department of housing. Applications are made to the Housing Agency via its website. The application process is broken into eight distinct phases. Phase 3 requires significant input from OMCs, involving engagement of a competent professional, which is a registered architect, surveyor or engineer, to carry out a thorough fire safety investigation and the subsequent identification of required works. Phase three can be broken down as follows: the selection and engagement of a competent professional through a dynamic purchasing system hosted by the Housing Agency for the discovery of fire safety defects and the identification of the necessary works, followed by completion by the competent professional of the fire safety risk assessment and the preparation of a proposed interim remediation works plan subject to engagement with local authority fire services, and, finally, procurement of a competent builder via the eTender process and a determination of costs. The appointed competent builder will be required to carry out the necessary eligible interim remediation fire safety works under a public works contract.

To support the implementation and increase the efficiency of the scheme, four pathfinder projects are under way. The projects have been selected from the more-than 200 applications made to the interim remediation scheme up until the end of May, representing 595 residential units. They vary in size and complexity and will provide valuable insights for both the interim and statutory schemes. The pathfinder process, which will also inform the development of the statutory scheme, is facilitating the design of templates and standards for documents to be prepared by competent professionals, including procurement arrangements, proposals for fire safety assessments, fire safety risk assessments, interim measures, remedial work plans and other project related paperwork. Funding has already been released to the pathfinders to pay a majority of their professional fees. It is expected that the actual work on the ground will begin in these pathfinder projects in the coming weeks. This work will be funded subject to eligibility and meeting the governance requirements around certification for the scheme.

Regarding the statutory scheme, I will address those points in my follow-up reply.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Before I call Senator Gallagher I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish, and his guests to the Gallery this afternoon. I hope they enjoy their visit to Leinster House. They are very welcome.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish, and his guests to the House.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, for outlining the interim remediation scheme. There is an urgency attached to this because we are speaking about fire safety. On the face of it, listening to the Minister of State's response, it has been a fairly long-winded exercise to date. We are going through the pathfinder route, which makes sense from the point of view of learning lessons before we roll out the entire scheme.

I have several quick questions. Will the Minister of State tell me how long it will be approximately before the scheme is up and running for all apartment owners? I look forward to the Minister of State's response on the broader scheme. Many people bought these apartments back in 2008 and 2009 and they are their homes. In the intervening years, many have moved on and have had children but they are trapped in this situation. I cannot stress enough the urgency of progress on both issues.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it has been a lengthy process but it is important to state that the work that has been done will be banked work, which will benefit all of the interim and statutory processes in future. On the new statutory scheme that will replace the interim scheme, the Minister received Government approval on 18 September for the priority drafting of the apartment and duplex remediation Bill. Drafting the Bill will enable the establishment of the statutory scheme and it is progressing. Various issues requiring legal advice are under consideration. The Bill has been included in the summer legislative programme for 2025 and it is intended that Government approval will be sought shortly to publish it. Subject to this approval, the general scheme will be available to undergo pre-legislative scrutiny. It is expected that the statutory scheme will be in place later this year and will provide support for the fire safety, structural safety and water ingress issues for those buildings constructed between 1991 and 2013. It is envisaged that it will cover 100% of the cost.

I reiterate that the work that has been done on the pathfinder projects and on the interim scheme is banked work that will benefit everything in future. It is a priority for the Government.