Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Tara Doherty, Craig Byas, Nessa Vaughan, Paul Ginnell and Rebecca O'Gorman to the Visitors Gallery. I thank Senator Andrews for bringing their presence to my attention.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." I will share my time with Senator Maria McCormack.

I thank the Minister for coming in. Before I begin, I will acknowledge the absolutely Trojan work done by IHREC, the #AddThe10th Alliance, ATD Ireland, EAPN Ireland and the Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed, whose representatives are here with us today watching proceedings. Many other organisations have also put in a great deal of work in advancing this issue over the years. I also acknowledge the residents of south inner-city Dublin, who have fought for this issue for generations. Without these individuals and organisations pushing this issue forward for the past two decades, this Bill would not exist and we would not be having this conversation on the realities of socioeconomic discrimination.

The purpose of the Bill is to amend Irish equality legislation, particularly two equality Acts: the Employment Equality Act and the Equal Status Act. These Acts currently legislate for nine grounds for discrimination covering marital status, family status, age, disability, sexual orientation, race, religion and membership of the Traveller community, thereby ensuring that people are not denied equal treatment because of their demographic or social identity. This Bill intends to add a further tenth form of discrimination to the legislation, that is, to expand the protections of both Acts to prohibit discrimination on the basis of disadvantaged socioeconomic status to ensure that people can no longer be discriminated against on the basis of their class or economic background.

Socioeconomic disadvantage is defined as belonging to a community that suffers from poverty, unemployment, insufficient access to education, poor housing, deprivation or any other form of socioeconomic marginalisation. It is an unfortunate reality that people in this country are faced with stigmatisation and prejudice based on nothing more than their accent, address or perceived social class. In countless communities across the State and particularly in inner-city Dublin, working people are routinely denied employment, housing, social opportunities, service provision and simple equal treatment from both private and public organisations. This systemic issue dates back generations for many people living in flat complexes, who report high levels of generational and present-day social exclusion and discrimination that is directly or indirectly due to their socioeconomic background. They are treated as second-class citizens simply because of where they come from, how they speak or how their perceived disadvantaged background defines them as people.

I will give an example from my area, in the constituency of Dublin Bay South. A man from a flat complex very close to here reported to me that, after submitting a video application for a job in a large multinational company, a drinks company, he was contacted by a concerned employee who informed him that fellow employees involved in the hiring process had exchanged text messages mocking this young individual's inner-city Dublin accent, with one questioning how a knacker like him could be qualified for the position. This incident directly led to him not being able to take the opportunity to advance his career. This is despite him holding a master's degree, having years of relevant experience and being fluent in Portuguese, as was required for the role. He was more than qualified. That is horrendous treatment for anyone to receive and yet the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, advised him that he had no legal resource due to the lack of legislation on this form of discrimination. Hence, we are here today. We may recall a similar issue highlighted by our colleague Senator Ruane in 2017 regarding admission practices at DIT, which is now TUD, in which students from disadvantaged backgrounds on an access programme were required to be Garda vetted while other students had no such requirement. Students from disadvantaged backgrounds were unfairly deemed to be dodgy and required to be vetted by the Garda before being allowed to join the rest of the college community, imposing a needless obstacle on them accessing education. This is blatant discrimination designed to reinforce the inequalities in our society, and if we are serious about allowing people the opportunity to succeed, we must ensure that social or economic disadvantage does not prevent someone from bettering his or her life and improving his or her community.

Ireland is a country with significant inequality and inflexible social strata, copper-fastened by socioeconomic disadvantage and how people's opportunities are considered by the prejudice of others. In 2024, Social Justice Ireland estimated that 559,850 people were living in poverty, of whom 176,912 were children. Similarly, the CSO concluded in 2023 that 17.3% of the population were experiencing enforced deprivation, meaning that they were unable to afford or access two or more basic necessities.

Article 40.1 of our Constitution states that all citizens should be held in equal regard before the law, yet these people lack the legal protections provided to other marginalised groups. The Bill offers a mechanism for people to fight back against this. For example, if the Bill is enacted, employers will not be able to legally discriminate against a job applicant or current employee because of his or her accent or the disadvantaged socioeconomic status of the area where he or she comes from. Further, it would not be legal for service providers to deny access to people because of socioeconomic status or where they live.

The introduction of a disadvantaged socioeconomic status ground will give people who experience discrimination on this ground the practical means to challenge their experience with a rights-based approach, as is the case with the other nine protected grounds. It will also be of very real, symbolic importance for the State, including the Government, to make clear to society and the people who face this discrimination that it will not be tolerated. By continuing to exclude socioeconomic status from our equality legislation, we are creating a hierarchy of equality in which we recognise certain forms of discrimination while failing to prohibit discrimination pertaining to disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds and accents.

This is vital legislation and is long overdue. A decade ago, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission submitted a report to the United Nations on the need to enshrine a prohibition on socioeconomic discrimination in Irish equality legislation. Citing the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the UN observed that Ireland was failing to meet its civil rights obligations by not providing for protection against socioeconomic discrimination. Over the past 20 years, there have been countless reports and recommendations from civil society groups, public bodies and international organisations calling for this gap in the legislation to be addressed. Unfortunately, nothing has been done.

As I alluded to, this proposal is in no way new. Our colleague Senator Fiona O’Loughlin and the now Minister, Jim O’Callaghan, introduced a near-identical Bill in 2017, which was supported in the Dáil by Fianna Fáil and other Opposition parties. I applaud them for that, and I hope they will support this Bill today.

I introduced this Bill in the previous Dáil. Unfortunately, the Government parties chose to kill it off through an amendment that delayed its reading by 18 months. The reason given was that further time was needed to examine the introduction of disadvantaged socioeconomic status as an additional ground in the context of the review of Equality Acts that was then under way. That review has now concluded. Unfortunately, there is no mention of socioeconomic discrimination in the general scheme and heads of Bill arising from this review. The Minister for equality signalled that the Government did not oppose adding this definition of discrimination to the Equality Acts, but I find it incredibly disappointing that it was absent from this incoming legislation as well as from the programme for Government.

I understand that the Government has tabled an amendment to once again de facto kill off this Bill. I hope that all of us in the House do not let this debate be sidelined again. The danger is that this can continue to be kicked down the road with no end in sight. This is an urgent issue and one that countless people across the country have been waiting for many years to be addressed. They have waited too long for protection, and it is time that we get serious about fighting for the rights of the disadvantaged and marginalised.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Fine Gael members from Newbridge, guests of the Minister, Deputy Heydon, to the Gallery, along with Philippa Dunlop, a TY student who is here with Catherine Ardagh.

Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
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I rise with pride to speak in support of the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025, introduced by my colleague Chris Andrews. This is important legislation, simple in its construction, yet powerful in its intention. It seeks to do one vital thing, namely, to finally recognise socioeconomic disadvantage as a ground upon which discrimination can occur and outlaw it under equality law. Right now, it is not illegal to discriminate against someone because he or she is poor, because of his or her address, because he or she is on social welfare or because he or she has a regional accent. We have laws that protect people on the basis of gender, race, religion and disability but not poverty. This is a glaring omission, and it is one that the Bill seeks to right.

Let us be clear about what socioeconomic discrimination looks like. It encompasses a child from a disadvantaged community being told he or she is not the right fit for a school; a woman from a Traveller or working class background being denied a job because of where she lives; a man in a homeless shelter being laughed at for using a prepaid card or being charged extra because he has no bank account; and families being told to wait at the back of the housing queue, not because they do not qualify, but because of a stigma that follows from generation to generation. This is not theoretical. This is real and it is happening every day.

The Bill does several important things. It amends the Employment Equality Act 1998 and the Equal Status Act 2000 to include socioeconomic disadvantage as a protected ground. It provides a clear legal definition covering things like poverty, source of income, homelessness, education level, employment status and even regional accents. It acknowledges that discrimination does not happen in a vacuum, it intersects, and the most vulnerable people often carry multiple disadvantages, compounded and reinforced by systemic neglect. This kind of discrimination is often invisible. It slips through the cracks because it does not fit neatly into the existing nine grounds of our equality legislation. However, if you grow up poor in Ireland, it can feel like the system is designed to keep you down. We see this in Laois and all over the country. I have met young people who are leaving school early, not because they do not have the ability, but because the supports are not there. This is particularly relevant to a Laois Traveller group that I met recently. I am thinking of particular youths in that group who were keen to go to further education and to progress in school, but because they were from the Traveller community, they felt discriminated against. I have stood with people who survived addiction and were trying to rebuild their lives but faced discrimination every single time they walked into a job interview or applied for a rental.

This Bill does not fix all of that, but it sends a powerful message that their experience is real and the State will no longer stand by and turn a blind eye. Some might say this is too complex, that poverty is too hard to define or that it is not the job of equality law to address social class issues, but we say this: if we are serious about equality, we must be serious about economic justice. France, Belgium and other European countries already include socioeconomic status in their equality legislation, so why not Ireland? We have the data and the stories. We now need the will. I commend Senator Chris Andrews on his leadership on this issue and all the organisations involved, especially those here with us today, the legal experts and the communities who have campaigned for this for years. Organisations like the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission have long called for this reform, as have legal academics, anti-poverty groups and community development networks. This is not a radical proposal but one that is long overdue. Let us be brave enough to challenge discrimination where it lives, in systems, in attitudes and, yes, in our laws. Let us stand with the young man from the council estate, the woman in emergency accommodation and the families struggling, not because of lack of effort but because the odds were stacked against them from the start. Let us call this what it is - discrimination - and let us pass this Bill to end it.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Before I move to the Government side, I thank the Minister, Deputy Foley, and her team for being with us for this Private Members' Bill. I call Senator Margaret Murphy O'Mahony.

Margaret Murphy O'Mahony (Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after “That” and substitute the following: - “Seanad Éireann resolves that the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025 be read a second time on this day 12 months, to allow for further consideration of issues arising in the Bill.”

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue today. Equality is one of the fundamental principles upon which our society is built. It is not just a legal concept. It is a societal aspiration, one that demands vigilance, commitment and action. As legislators, we have a duty to ensure fairness and opportunity for all, particularly for those who face barriers due to their socioeconomic status. Fianna Fáil welcomes this debate and supports the request from the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality, Deputy Foley, who is with us today, to introduce an amendment providing that this Bill be returned for debate in 12 months. This is not a delay; it is an opportunity to ensure the introduction of disadvantaged socioeconomic status as a new ground in the Employment Equality Act 1998 and the Equal Status Act 2000 is done thoroughly, responsibly and effectively.

The proposal to expand our equality laws is a significant step forward. Such a change must be approached with clarity and precision, however. The additional time for review will allow us to define "socioeconomic disadvantage" properly, thereby ensuring its inclusion as a protected ground is legally robust and practically implementable. We must consider the impact on workers, employers, service providers and individuals alike. Legal protection is only meaningful when it is workable and ensures businesses, institutions and society at large understand their obligations and responsibilities. This time will allow us to assess how best to embed this new ground without ambiguity to ensure effective enforcement and real impact for those most impacted by socioeconomic inequalities.

Ireland has long been a leader in enshrining equality protections in law. The Employment Equality Acts and Equal Status Acts, first introduced by Fianna Fáil in 1998 and 2000 respectively, have shaped our legal and social landscape, prohibiting discrimination in employment and in the provision of goods and services. These laws protect individuals based on nine grounds, sending a clear signal that discrimination on these bases will not be tolerated. While enforcement can sometimes be difficult, the existence of this legislation is powerful. It sets the tone for how employers, institutions and service providers interact with individuals right across all sectors. Expanding this framework to prohibit discrimination on the ground of socioeconomic disadvantage would be a natural progression in strengthening protections for those most vulnerable. We must, however, do so thoughtfully. We must ensure the legislative language is clear, the enforcement mechanisms strong and the protections genuinely impactful.

Some may ask why legal protections matter when tackling discrimination. The reality is that discrimination, whether intentional or unconscious, creates significant barriers for individuals in accessing opportunities and services. We have seen the positive impact of existing equality legislation, which has helped to reduce discrimination and change perceptions over the years. When we send a strong legislative message it forces reflection and promotes change, not just in individual attitudes but in the structures and systems that shape our society. Making socioeconomic disadvantage a recognised ground for discrimination will not eliminate inequality overnight. It will, however, create a foundation upon which further protections can be built, thereby ensuring equal access to employment and essential services regardless of people's backgrounds.

Advancing equality is not the task of one Department alone; it is a whole-of-government issue. We must address inequality from multiple angles, through education, social policy, employment initiatives and legal protections. Progress has been made across several fronts but challenges persist. We still see disparities in access to education, employment opportunities and public services. We still hear stories of individuals who face barriers due to their economic background, whether in hiring practices, treatment by institutions or access to essential resources. Fianna Fáil believes social mobility and inclusion must be central to our policies. The Government remains committed to driving progress and ensuring that Ireland continues to grow as a welcoming, fair and inclusive society.

Further to this commitment, the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality, Deputy Foley, will bring forward her proposals within the equality and family leaves (miscellaneous provisions) Bill 2025. These proposals are designed to strengthen protections for individuals facing socioeconomic disadvantage, reinforcing our national commitment to fairness and equality. The timed amendment allowing the Bill to return for a debate in 12 months is critical in ensuring the Government's proposals are fully developed, thoroughly examined and properly finalised. We must take the time to get this right and ensure the legislation introduced is effective, clear and enforceable.

This is more than just a legislative discussion. It is an opportunity to build a fairer, stronger and more inclusive Ireland. The Government is committed to ensuring this process is well researched and comprehensive, bringing forward strong legal protections that will help to address socioeconomic disadvantage in a meaningful and lasting way. Fianna Fáil supports this measured approach, allowing time for thorough reflection, refinement and careful implementation. Let us work together to ensure Ireland continues to lead on equality and inclusion, thereby creating a society where opportunity is available to all regardless of our background.

Nikki Bradley (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister to the House and thank her for her time. We appreciate it. I also welcome our guests and hope they are having a good day. Hopefully, it continues the way it started. I thank my colleagues for bringing forward this important Bill. The principle at its heart, that socioeconomic disadvantage should not be a basis for discrimination, is something we can and should support. This is not a new conversation. In fact, the need to examine the inclusion of socioeconomic status under the Employment Equality Act 1998 has been acknowledged by successive governments, including one in which Fine Gael played a leading role. The programme for Government in 2020 explicitly committed to exploring this and the public consultation that followed received more than 580 submissions. This was clear evidence that people cared deeply about this issue.

As a Senator from County Donegal, I feel strongly about this issue. Too often, our constituents feel left behind, not just economically but politically. There is a real sense of disconnect from national policymaking and from the protections others take for granted. People in rural areas, especially in counties like mine, know exactly what it feels like to be judged by the assumptions people make when we say where we are from. This Bill seeks to protect people from that kind of prejudice. The proposed legislation defines "socioeconomic disadvantage" in a clear and thoughtful way. It includes factors like poverty, educational level, housing, employment status and, yes, even social or regional accents. This matters. In this House, we recognise disadvantage is not just about income. It is about perception, access to opportunity and an overall lack of inclusion. While the Government has proposed a 12-month deferral to continue work on this issue, I believe we should use this time wisely and constructively. This will allow the respective Departments to engage with stakeholders and affected groups. On this issue, there are international precedents from other EU countries. In addition, just last year, the United Nations specifically called on Ireland to include socioeconomic status in its anti-discrimination laws. We have a chance here to show leadership both at home and abroad. This is not about rushing legislation; it is about pressing it with care and credibility. We need to make sure any changes to the existing policy are workable in practice, consistent with our legal framework and enforceable. These areas will need additional consideration before any version of this Bill is fully considered on Committee Stage. That said, we must not lose momentum. People who live with socioeconomic disadvantage, especially those in communities that feel under-represented, deserve more than recognition. They deserve real legal protection.

I acknowledge and thank the Senators who brought this Bill forward. I support the intention behind it fully and look forward to engaging in a spirit of collaboration to ensure that we deliver meaningful and lasting change.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister is very welcome. I thank her officials, who put considerable work into this. I acknowledge the proposers of this Bill, namely Senators Andrews, Nicole Ryan, Conor Murphy, Collins, Tully and McCormack. I support the Bill. Having looked at it, I realise that it has been a long time in gestation. I thank the Oireachtas Library and Research Service, which prepared a very interesting paper in advance of this debate. The service is full of integrity. It provides independent validation and gives us the confidence to stand here and discuss the legislation in the proper context as well as its background.

As other Senators indicated, this is not altogether new. Today, we are dealing with the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025, a Private Members' Bill in the names of Sinn Féin Senators. I wish to set the context. When we are discussing things here, many of these programmes are fed out on "Oireachtas Report" at night. If it is halfway through something, people may not be quite sure what is going on. The purpose of the Bill is to introduce a new ground for discrimination into Irish equality law on the basis of disadvantaged socioeconomic status, which is important. In that context, on 13 May last, Senator Andrews initiated the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in the Seanad. Generally, both here and afterwards, he got considerable favourable support, but that is politics for you. People will you on the corridor that they will support you, but when you look around you ask where they have gone. Other people are doing other things today at various committees. I respect and accept that.

The purpose of the Bill is to expand the protection of the relevant Acts, namely the Employment Equality Acts 1998 to 2021 and the Equal Status Acts 2000 to 2018, to prohibit discrimination on the basis of disadvantaged socioeconomic status. Let us set the legislative context for this. Currently, discrimination is prohibited under the Employment Equality Acts 1998 to 2021 and the Equal Status Acts 2000 to 2018 in respect of employment and access to goods and services, respectively, across nine grounds, which the Senator already set out and I will not repeat them.

I looked at the previous Private Members' Bills on this. A similar Bill, the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021, was initiated in Dáil Éireann on 27 January 2021. It was sponsored by Senator Chris Andrews, who was then a TD, and Violet Anne Wynne. On 1 March 2023, Dáil Éireann passed an amendment which stated:

Dáil Éireann resolves that the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2021 be deemed to be read a second time this day 18 months, to allow for time to further examine the introduction of 'disadvantaged socio-economic status' as an additional ground in the Equality Acts in the context of the Review of Equality Acts currently under way in the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth.

The Bill then fell because of the dissolution of the Thirty-third Dáil. The point I am making is that there has been a long lead-in time.

I accept that the Minister, Deputy Foley, is new to her post. I also accept that there are new dynamics, a new Government, a new programme for Government and new priorities and that it is not possible to get everything through in a programme for Government. As a result, the Government has to recalibrate its priorities. Politically, it is a coalition Government. which means that compromises have to be made as well. That is political pragmatism, and I understand how it works.

Going back further, on 28 June 2017, the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017 was also initiated in Dáil Éireann. That Private Members' Bill was sponsored by the now Minister for justice, Jim O'Callaghan TD, a fine legislator, a fine Minister and a fine politician with vast experience in legislation and the preparation thereof. He was very happy to put his name to that Bill, to speak on it and to endorse it. Fiona O'Loughlin, then a TD and now here in the Seanad, supported that legislation. The point I am making is that there has been a long lead-in. I will not push it too much other than to say that in 2024, as the Minister will be aware, the United Nations Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights recommended that Ireland should adopt comprehensive anti-discrimination legislation that includes explicit references to all prohibited grounds of discrimination, including socioeconomic status. Enough of that; enough people have spoken.

Given the amount of lead-in time and in light of all the promises made, the focus should be on getting the legislation through. Are we all committed to getting this legislation across the line? I would like to think that we are. The timeframe may be different for different people, and there may be reasons for that. I have yet to hear what the Minister has to say. I look forward to hearing what she has to say because that will form an important part of my consideration. We need robust legislation. We need to have absolute clarity about the legislation and we need to make sure we cross off any unintended consequences of the legislation.

Those are three important facets. The Minister will know other competing issues relating to some of them that we may not be fully aware of. I would like to think that we could shorten the period from 12 months to, possibly, three. That may be too much to ask; maybe there is too much lead-in time. The Minister knows her resources. She knows the expertise and the people available to her for this legislation, which is only one segment of many pieces of legislation that she is championing and pushing through the Houses. I wish her well with all that.

We need to send out a clear message that we all support this legislation, the timeline relating to its implementation and its robustness. It needs to be thoroughly examined so that it erases any concerns. As this is a two-way process, if there are shortcomings with the legislation, I would like to hear what they are. In essence, I am supportive of the legislation. I am just not sure whether we can reach a compromise between what is being suggested and the Minister's amendment. We have now had two or three in the past two or three weeks, which is a bit concerning. I have been a Member of this House for ten years. I am amazed that we should have so many time amendments in a very short period of time. It is not something I am familiar with or used to. I would not like to see it becoming a habit. Those of us in opposition in these Houses have a role to tease out legislation respectfully and robustly, and I know that is a two-way process.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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The Minister is very welcome. I am delighted to support the Bill introduced by my Sinn Féin colleagues. The idea that socioeconomic disadvantage is inherited is not a new or radical idea. A 2022 report from the ESRI indicates, "Past research strongly indicates that individuals who experience poverty in childhood face an increased risk of experiencing poverty as adults." To state the absolute obvious, poverty is never the fault of a child born into poverty and it is not the choice made by a child. Socioeconomic disadvantage bears a strong resemblance to six of the nine grounds for discrimination. Generally, we accept the logic that aspects of our lives over which we exert no control should not be aspects of our lives on which we are discriminated against. On the basis of that logic alone, there is a compelling case for supporting this legislation.

We also need to recognise that people who experience discrimination on any other grounds are also likely to experience socioeconomic disadvantage and frequently multigenerational poverty. In Ireland, this is particularly evident among members of the Traveller and Roma communities.

I wish to use my time to highlight a particular aspect of discrimination relating to socioeconomic disadvantage that directly affects Members of the Dáil and Seanad and that consequently impacts on the lack of diversity we see in both, not only among Members but also among the staff. This is a topic I hope to address next week in the form of a Commencement matter and one I will be returning to in much greater detail when we deal with the National Minimum Wage (Payment of Interns) Bill 2022, which was introduced to the Seanad by my predecessor as Labour Party spokesperson on workers' rights, Marie Sherlock.Unpaid internships are a vehicle through which discrimination against those experiencing economic disadvantage is driven at high speed. Who can afford to work for one month or six months a year without any wages? Only those who already have a significant advantage, whether it is their own personal wealth or the support of a family who can afford to support an unwaged adult for a period of time. I know that since starting in the Seanad I have been approached by a number of young people or organisations acting on their behalf asking that I consider employing an unwaged intern. Working for a TD or a Senator can be very exciting and we all know that there is plenty of meaningful and valuable work we can find for an enthusiastic graduate or student to do. The same applies to unpaid interns in media, fashion and film-making. All are attractive and desirable areas within which to build a career and all of which have a deeply embedded concept and acceptance of unpaid internships. We know that an experience such as this is also likely to benefit that young person in their future career, so it is often very easy to justify. I am sure many parliamentary administrative assistants in these Chambers started their careers as unpaid interns and many have risen in the ranks to become parliamentary assistants and then continued on to become TDs. We all get that phone call asking us to consider this. When we are taking on someone as an unpaid intern, we have also to think of the people who are being excluded from consideration not just for an internship role but potentially from a career in a role that might suit them perfectly.

Unintentionally, through the use of unpaid interns we exclude people from a background of socioeconomic disadvantage and we reinforce a system which replicates itself and magnifies the normalisation of privilege. Incidentally, much of the corporate world has abandoned the practice of unpaid internships. It has recognised the potential talent being excluded from consideration. It is time for us in the Houses of the Oireachtas to do the same. Although the role of interns is not directly addressed in the Bill we are discussing today, it illustrates just how ingrained is the exclusion of those experiencing socioeconomic disadvantage and how often that exclusion is perpetrated at every level, generation after generation. I am delighted to support this Bill. I agree with my colleagues in opposition in hoping it can be pushed through sooner rather than being delayed for another 12 months.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Councillor Paul Ward and his guests to the Visitors Gallery. I call Senator Collins or Senator Tully. Who wishes to go first?

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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Senator Collins is delayed at the moment but Senator Ryan wants to use the time.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely, with the agreement of the House? Agreed.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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Senator Collins may come in and take a couple of minutes of the time.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely, that is fine. Not a problem.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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I commend my colleague, Senator Chris Andrews, on introducing the Equality (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025.. This Bill proposes to add a tenth ground of discrimination to the nine grounds that already exist. It is to prohibit discrimination on the basis of your address or your accent - your socioeconomic background. Every city or large town has areas that are associated with poverty and discrimination. There is often intergenerational poverty so it is very difficult for people to actually get out of that poverty. They need support. We know it is used against people living in particular areas within a town or a city, especially.

I was speaking recently to a teacher and he told me that when he started out seeking jobs and applying for positions in different schools, he was staying temporarily with his sister in an area of Dublin and was using her address. He was not getting called for interviews, so he asked himself what was going on. He changed the address he was using and the next thing he was called for interviews. I am not going to say where it was but his sister's address was in an area of Dublin that had received a lot of bad press relating to poverty and deprivation. It was obvious that it was the address that was going against him being called for interviews. Things like this really do happen. If we go back to when sectarianism was rife in the North, people's addresses were used to ensure people from a certain background were given the jobs in an area. If somebody came from an area that was perceived to be a Catholic area and was therefore supposed to be nationalist or republican, every effort was made to ensure they did not get that job. It even came down to a name and the spelling of the name. We often thought about how Martin McGuinness spelled his name differently from Ken Maginnis and they were from very different backgrounds. Something like that was used. It happens all the time. We need legislation to ensure it does not continue to happen. It is disappointing that the Government has sought to delay this Bill for 12 months. I ask, as my colleagues have, that it is reconsidered.

Nicole Ryan (Sinn Fein)
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I wholeheartedly commend Senator Andrews on bringing this Bill forward. We are so delighted to support him. Socioeconomic background is something that is not factored into the grounds of discrimination. We know so many people in both our society and our community, who are living in socioeconomic deprivation. I have been a victim of that too. I am in rural Ireland but come from a council house, so there has been discrimination around that. It is something people cannot control. I echo what Senator Boyhan said, that this is not going to be a trend experienced by the Opposition where very good legislation that has been given time and has been read is continually pushed back. We in the Opposition have brought forward very good legislation. It seems to be a trend that it keeps getting pushed back when it comes from the Opposition benches. I cannot fathom how something as complex as parole can be pushed back six months for a second time but something that has been in the Chambers through the years is pushed back 12 months. I hope that does not continue. I again thank Senator Andrews for bringing it forward.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh maith agaibh as ucht an t-am agus an deis seo a thabhairt dom.

I thank the Sinn Féin Senators who have brought forward the Bill. I sincerely appreciate their motivation and intention here. When listening to the contributions across the House, I can tell there is a very keen understanding from Senators of the impact of socioeconomic discrimination on some of the most vulnerable people within our society. That is also the understanding of the Government

It is fully recognised here today that, despite the great progress we have made on many social issues, individuals in Ireland can still often face barriers on the basis of their backgrounds. The Society of Saint Vincent de Paul reports that experiences of postcode discrimination is also common among the people it assists. Senator Tully has referenced that as well. This could mean not being able to access a public service or employment due to your geographical location, or being refused services such as insurance because of living in a poorer, or what is perceived to be a poorer, neighbourhood. That is something we need to tackle. As someone with a background in education, I will always appreciate the importance of people being given equal opportunities. It can be life-changing for them. We have to make sure every child - every person - in every part of this country can show their talent and showcase their ability and do so equally.

Nelson Mandela, a leader who did so much in his life to advance, equality of opportunity for the people of South Africa, once remarked, “I am influenced more than ever before by the conviction that social equality is the only basis of human happiness.” I know the Senators are all involved in advancing a whole variety of aspects of equality through their work in this Chamber and beyond. I want to mention briefly in his absence Senator Victor Boyhan, who organised a screening of a film “We Will Not Sit Down and Be Quiet” in the audiovisual room in Leinster House yesterday to highlight the rights of people with disabilities which was an important showcase. I thank the Senator for that.

The previous programme for Government included a commitment to introducing a new ground of socioeconomic discrimination into our equality legislation and, in November 2024, the Government approved in principle the introduction of a new equality ground of socioeconomic disadvantage in the equality legislation. The Government is anxious to progress this work and officials are working on carrying out the necessary assessment of the potential costs for the Exchequer and the potential impact on small and medium enterprises of such a move.

The most significant challenge in introducing a new ground for discrimination into the equality Acts is in ensuring that it can be understood by everyone. The public and businesses, small and large, need to be clear on what the ground is and what it covers. As the Senators will be aware, the proposed introduction of this ground has been the subject of a number of previous Private Member’s Bills, which have been referenced. Past attempts to legislate in this area have been held back by difficulties in defining terms such as "socioeconomic status" or "disadvantaged socioeconomic status" with the degree of absolute clarity and lack of ambiguity necessary for the Statute Book.I recognise that a lot of thought and work was put into drafting the definition in the Bill. It is appreciated that this was not an easy task. The work has been of great assistance to officials in the Department of equality in their ongoing consideration of this important issue. I acknowledge that.

The definition of "socioeconomic disadvantage" in this Bill is where a person or group suffers from disadvantage resulting from one or more of the following criteria: poverty, source of income, illiteracy, level of education, address, type of housing or homelessness, employment status, social or regional accent, or any other similar circumstance. In July 2023, a report was published under my predecessor on submissions received as part of a consultation on Ireland's equality legislation. Of the submissions concerned with the potential introduction of a socioeconomic equality ground, the vast majority were supportive. However, not all submissions welcomed the proposal. Significant concerns were raised about the potential for such a ground to give rise to unintended consequences and have significant implications for employers and employees.

Extensive work has been carried out by officials in the Department to scope and develop policy on what a new ground should and could encompass. This ongoing work is intended to ensure we can bring forward a proposal that gives absolute clarity as to everyone's rights and obligations under the law. There is a long-standing Government policy, known as the SME test, of checking the impact of any new measures that will directly or indirectly impact on small and medium-sized enterprises. This is in recognition of the importance to our economy of the more than 300,000 SMEs that employ in excess of 1.1 million people. Officials are currently engaging with key business organisations to seek their views on the potential impact on SMEs of this proposal.

Once that work is completed, I intend to bring forward a legislative proposal as part of the wider legislation arising out of the Department's review of the equality Acts. That review has already led to a general scheme and heads of Bill, which were approved by the Government in November last year. The equality and family leave (miscellaneous provisions) Bill has been given priority for drafting by the Government, and I intend to refer the general scheme shortly to the newly formed Joint Committee on Children and Equality for pre-legislative scrutiny. The planned reforms included in the general scheme aim to improve the effectiveness of the equality Acts in combating discrimination and promoting equality for all.

While the Bill under consideration today is in line with Government policy in this area, it is crucial the potential costs and, equally, the proposed wording are carefully considered to ensure there are no unintended consequences. The purpose of the amendment to the motion is to allow time for the Government to complete work on the proposals. It is vital this happens to ensure we can stand over any proposal and be absolutely confident it is fully tested.

Discrimination on the basis of disadvantaged socioeconomic status should be unacceptable in today's Ireland. As I referenced earlier, links between poverty and discrimination are well documented and discrimination on the basis of socioeconomic status has been frequently raised as an issue by individuals and organisations working in the field of equality law. The Government is committed to addressing poverty and social exclusion. Introduction of a socioeconomic ground will not address many of the root causes of disadvantage on its own. When combined with social inclusion measures, however, it can be one important step in tackling the discrimination faced by very marginalised members of our society and can encourage change.

It is always good to remind ourselves in these Houses of the stirring words of the 1916 Proclamation:

The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally...

Historians such as Diarmaid Ferriter have rightly pointed out that the reference to cherishing all of the children equally was intended to reassure the Protestant minority of their place in the new republic. However, those words have been taken as inspiration ever since for the need to do better and be better for our children and our people. I welcome the opportunity to work with Senators on these proposals. I recognise that, despite the great progress we have made, many social issues and barriers remain for individuals in Ireland. We must do more to support them. We all share a common objective to protect all people living in Ireland from discrimination in their daily lives.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I apologise to everybody in the House for the noise of my phone. I welcome the guests of Senator McCarthy in the Visitors Gallery: Gerard and Virginia Lane from the Philippines, former Irish honorary consul to Indonesia; and Stephanie Woolard from Melbourne, Australia. Also most welcome are the following visitors in the Public Gallery, whom I did not introduce properly earlier: from All Together in Dignity Ireland, Tara Doherty, Craig Byas and Nessan Vaughan; from the European Anti-Poverty Network Ireland, Paul Ginnell; and from the Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed, Rebecca Gorman. I thank them for being here for the entire proceedings this afternoon.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I thank colleagues for their contributions and the Minister for her comments. I know she cares deeply about equality and I sincerely hope the Government makes progress on this urgent issue. However, I am deeply disappointed that, once again, we see the Government tabling an amendment to attempt to kill these legislative proposals. More than two years ago, the then Government passed a near-identical amendment to stop the progression of an identical Bill. That amendment stated that 18 months were needed to examine the matters arising from the Bill over the course of an ongoing review. That was 26 months ago and the review referred to is now finished.

The Government declined to use that opportunity to take action and has hypocritically decided it needs another 12 months to examine this very straightforward proposal. It is not a new proposal. Senator O'Loughlin and her Fianna Fáil colleagues were happy to support the proposed reform back in 2017. I simply do not see how they cannot, in good faith, do the same today. We are all aware of how scarce Private Members' time is in the House. Delaying the Bill by 12 months is designed, in effect, to kill it. The amendment is a cynical way for the Government to kill the Bill without opposing it. I am confident that the vast majority of Senators support the legislation. I hope we will all vote on the Second Reading based on what is the right thing to do.

Not allowing the Bill to proceed to Committee Stage will do absolutely nothing to promote equality. It sends a message to people living in inner-city communities, flat complexes and disadvantaged communities that the Government does not care about their lives and the reality they face and does not see ensuring their well-being as a priority. The Government is kicking the can down the road once again. I said the exact same two years ago. It is deeply disappointing the Government has failed to use the time since to make progress on ending discrimination against our disadvantaged communities.

Allowing the Bill to advance to Committee Stage is not contrary to the Government's intention to reflect on and refine it. The very point of Committee Stage is to allow for such reflection and refinement. Legislators have an important role to play in ensuring the quality of Bills. The Government should not disregard this House and its ability to scrutinise legislation. If it is serious about ensuring Bills are fully considered, it must allow this legislation to proceed to Committee Stage. That will take considerable time to progress, by which point the SME test review will be complete. An arbitrary 12-month delay is meaningless. Delaying the Bill is a cynical move to avoid taking action, driven by the notion that a good idea cannot be had by anyone not sitting on the Government benches.

I regularly hear that the Seanad is about consensus and collegiality. That is absolute nonsense. The Government is only into consensus and collegiality if we on this side of the House agree with it. Proposals by the Opposition are blocked straight away. It is a nonsense to say the Seanad is some sort of nice debating society. It is used by the Government to block good legislation. The legislation we have proposed was supported by the Minister's colleague, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, who put something almost identical before the Dáil and Seanad, yet the Minister is now voting against it and kicking the can down the road. That SME cost review could have been done 24 months ago. My Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael colleagues are saying we must make sure we get it right and that there are barriers there. We heard that it is not a delay but an opportunity. They have had the opportunity to get this right for 20 years but they have failed every time. They have neglected inner-city communities. Not only are individuals neglected and discriminated against individually, housing policy also neglects and discriminates against those living in flat complexes. We see that week in and week out. We see that families and individuals are left in appalling conditions in inner-city communities because of discrimination by Government. I know this is not directly related to this Bill but there is a sense that inner-city communities are neglected, forgotten about and discriminated against on an ongoing basis. The Government has had plenty of time to get it right. This is just an excuse. We have to pass this legislation. It is too important that, in 2025, we would not have this passed.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Before we move on, I welcome the Front Line Defenders award winners who are in the Public Gallery and are guests of Senator Stephenson. They are very welcome.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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At 9.30 a.m. tomorrow.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.