Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I, too, welcome the children from the school and I hope they have an enjoyable day.

I welcome the Minister back to the House. Like Senator McCormack, I compliment him on his commitment to attending this House. He is setting an example that I hope many of his colleagues will follow.

Without doubt, the Minister has inherited a very busy portfolio and there are many issues on his desk that need immediate attention. I will discuss one that he mentioned in his previous contribution, namely, prison overcrowding. The latest figures show that there are currently 5,348 inmates in Irish prisons, which only have a capacity for 4,666 prisoners. There are also 398 mattresses on floors, while 566 inmates are on temporary release, 113 of whom are serving custodial sentences of six months or more. There is also the serious question of people being given sentences and travelling to prison only to be turned around in what is known as the revolving door system. This practice, as I am sure the Minister will agree, is concerning for the effect that it has on the justice system and the perception of justice in this country among the gardaí, the courts and the general public.

The increase in the prison population has resulted in a large number of prisoners sleeping on mattresses on floors and on the necessary redeployment of staff to landings for safety reasons, thus diverting staff from facilitating educational and rehabilitative services. Not only does overcrowding lead to an increased risk of violence for prisoners, but it also threatens the health and safety of prison officers. Ultimately, there is an increased risk of reoffending and an increased threat to public safety in general. Since the report by the prison overcrowding response group was submitted, the prison population has continued to grow, hitting record numbers with certain prisons consistently experiencing overcrowding significantly beyond that.

The programme for Government commits to implementing electronic tagging for appropriate categories of offenders. I understand that work is under way on scoping out the practical operational considerations of such a move for relevant categories of offenders to inform the next steps. I would be grateful if the Minister could provide an update on where this work stands.

Many other jurisdictions have introduced electronic tagging but I understand that there are concerns. The tagging system currently used in the UK came under scrutiny recently following a BBC exposé on the breakdown of the system and the widescale abuse of prisoners participating in the early release system. I would be grateful if the Minister would outline his Department's plans to ensure that any such breaches of a new plan in Ireland will be dealt with by immediately returning the prisoner in question to prison and imposing other penalties.

I note that many, including the Minister's predecessor, the former Deputy Dermot Ahern, have said it is inevitable - I have heard the current Minister say it many times as well - that, with the increase in the population, we will need more prison places. Even with the best will in the world, though, it will take time to build prison places.We need to come up with creative ideas and greater solutions that can address the problem. For example, electronic tagging can play a significant role in that. Also, as the Minister said, we need to make more use of community service for lesser offences to keep people from going to prison at the outset. We need to be creative with our solutions because, with the best will in the world, it is going to take years to build additional prison spaces. I look forward to the Minister's contribution.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome those from Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School who are in the Gallery. They are a great school and it is great to see them in the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Senator Gallagher raises an important issue. It is one of the most pressing issues that is facing me as the Minister for Justice. It relates to what is the overcrowding issue in our prisons. Since I have been made Minister for Justice, I have visited three prisons already. I have been to Cork Prison and Cloverhill Prison. I was in Shelton Abbey open prison on Monday past. As Senator Ryan knows, I am going to Limerick Prison on Monday. It is extremely important that, as Minister, I see what is actually happening in our prisons. Very many of the prisons are dominated by people who are excellent members of staff who are doing their best under difficult circumstances. I am not going to hide the fact we have an overcrowding problem within our prisons. It is my responsibility to try to fix it.

As Senator Gallagher identified, one of the mechanisms by which it can be fixed is through electronic tagging. When one thinks about it, we introduced the capacity for electronic tagging on our Statute Book back as long ago as 1997 in the Bail Act. We also refer to it in the Criminal Justice Act 2006. The Sex Offenders (Amendment) Act 2023 provides for electronic monitoring in certain circumstances. If we have these statutory provisions that state that electronic monitoring can be used, it is pretty surprising we do not have it available to us at this stage. Our neighbouring jurisdiction, Northern Ireland, has tagging. They do not have same resources that we have in this country on a per capita basis, so there is no real reason it has not been introduced to date.

In the next number of months, I intend to put out for public tender the contract to provide tags that can be used within the prison system and our criminal justice system. The benefit of that will be that we will not have to remand as many people in custody prior to their trial because, if they are electronically tagged, we can avoid any difficulty in respect of them absconding. It is a sanction that also can be imposed in respect of those who are convicted to supervise them after they either finish their term of imprisonment or indeed on a term of imprisonment. There are other solutions that are needed as well. I have proposals to try to ensure we get 1,100 new prison spaces in the next 18 months. I will be bringing a memorandum to Government in the near future in respect of that. We need to provide prison spaces in a fairly immediate mechanism. That will require me to try to cut through the red tape and, I hope, avoiding having to go through the public sector spending code. We need to get prison spaces available in the immediate future.

There is also the longer term plan in respect of building a new prison. That is something that will be necessary because of our rising population. However, I am not a person or Minister, and I do not believe we are a country, who thinks we are going to solve our criminal justice issues through the imposition of a greater number of prison sentences. We need to examine alternative options when it comes to sanctions. Prisons should be a place for dangerous people who have committed violent offences. I was in Shelton Abbey and there many individuals in the open prison who are doing extremely well. They are engaged in employment in the prison. They are living productive lives. There is also a sense of rehabilitation there. The function of prison is twofold. It is rehabilitation as well as punishment. We need to examine alternative penalties that can be imposed, such as community sanctions. In the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, I gave the opportunity and hope to be able to put into law an option for more community sanctions.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. One thing I am very heartened by is the number of ideas he has to address this very serious issue. As he said, it is the most pressing issue on his desk currently. I am heartened by the manner in which he is tackling this and by the vigour, enthusiasm and sense of determination he is bringing to his portfolio. It is hugely impressive. I look forward to progress being made, not just with tagging. It is great to hear the supply of tagging equipment is going out to tender, which is very much welcome. However, the option to examine alternatives to people going to prison in the first place by community service and so on is something that needs to be explored. I am heartened by the Minister's response. I look forward to the much-needed progress in this area in the not-too-distant future.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Gallagher. I will provide a detailed update in respect to where we are. I am advised that work is under way involving representatives from the various agencies to prepare to operationalise electronic monitoring. This includes the consideration of technology, data protection, procurement, implementation and operating model design. The project will determine in what order the various legislative provisions should be commenced, having regard to the practical and operational considerations involved with each potential cohort. The important information from the Senator's point of view is that an initial roll-out of electronic monitoring is expected later this year following a procurement exercise to select a service provider. That is good news. It will mean there is another option available for the Judiciary and greater options for the Probation Service and Parole Board. It will have a positive impact on the overcrowding issue within prisons, but as part of the solution. It is not the complete solution.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank Senator Gallagher and the Minister. We in this House greatly appreciate the Minister coming to us directly as the lead in justice. I thank him for his time.