Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister to the Chamber to discuss this serious and important issue for the people of Limerick. I have been taking about this specific matter for seven years. He is the third Minister for Justice I have raised this issue with. In fact, I had the opportunity to meet with and engage specifically on this matter with one of his predecessors. This issue first came to light in March 2018 when the beautifully designed and appointed new courthouse on Mulgrave Street, Limerick was opened. It was a very welcome investment for us in Limerick city. It provides six extra courthouses. It has vulnerable witness rooms and it has amazing facilities that we really need in Limerick. It has the capacity to hold the Circuit and District Courts. The Central Criminal Court has sat there and I believe that High Court sat in Limerick for the prestigious opening of this new courthouse in March 2018. A few months later, the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland was published. That was a milestone document. It made recommendations on security, safety, enhanced community care, the overall future of policing and where the force is going.

One of the most important recommendations it made was on the removal of gardaí, where appropriate, from non-core policing duties allowing us to free up our precious limited resource and get them back to the important core policing duties that we all need and rely on them to do. It is a critical recommendation, and it is the foundation for the onboarding of more civilian employees in to the Garda. It is a cornerstone in this day and age when recruitment in any sector is challenging. It is a cornerstone to ensure that we are maximising the use of our precious Garda resources. We are in a wonderful position in this country. During the general election campaign, at the majority of the doors that I knocked on people were asking for more gardaí. In the main, there is a great degree of trust in the gardaí. They are very engaged in the community. They are respected and their presence is seen as an enhancement to security by most people in my community. This is why it is critical that I raise the matter of the 16 gardaí seconded from Henry Street station in Limerick who are on security duty in the new modern courthouse in Mulgrave Street. At the same time, equivalent security duties are being carried out by private security firms in courthouses in Dublin. I welcome private security firms carrying out those tasks, where appropriate, in Dublin. This is what we want to see happening. However, I am asking the Minister - the third Minister of Justice that I have unfortunately had to ask this question of, to please consider releasing gardaí from those non-core policing activities at Mulgrave Street courthouse and give them back to the community for use in front-line policing measures where they are desperately wanted and needed in Limerick.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for tabling this important Commencement matter. I know the reason she is raising this is, like virtually every other Member of the Oireachtas, she wants to see more members of An Garda Síochána on the streets in their constituencies. I want to see that happen as well. We are in a very fortunate position in this country where most of the public and virtually all Members of the Oireachtas want to see more members of An Garda Síochána in their communities. The reason they want that is to ensure that there is a sense of safety around. It gives people a great sense of confidence if they see members of An Garda Síochána in the area.

The Senator mentioned an important point. She does not want to see members of An Garda Síochána doing work that could be done by other persons; whether it is civilian members of An Garda Síochána or by private security firms, as she identified is happening in Dublin. The report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland is something that I want to see implemented. I have included a provision in the general scheme of the Criminal Law and Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2025, which I published two week ago, that seeks to ensure that we have more remote hearings for criminal charges, particularly remand hearings.I hope that will result in fewer members of An Garda Síochána having to turn up in court, whether it is Limerick courthouse in Mulgrave Street or any other courthouse around the country. I note the Senator mentioned there being 16 members of An Garda Síochána in the courthouse. That gives me some cause for concern. I had been informed that the number of full-time members of the Garda allocated was ten. However, whether it is ten or 16, that is far too many.

I do not direct operational matters from the point of view of An Garda Síochána. It is not appropriate for a Minister for Justice to say, "I want to see the garda overin a different part of Limerick," I leave that to the Commissioner and the chief superintendents in Limerick. However, it is important that I try, as the Minister for Justice, to ensure we are putting in place principles that will provide guidance to An Garda Síochána. I would like to see private security firms doing the type of security work that the Senator Ryan says is being done by members of An Garda Síochána in Limerick but, similarly, we need to change the law to ensure that there is an awareness on the part of the Judiciary that we should not have members of An Garda Síochána present in courtrooms when it is not necessary for them to be there. If we can do those hearings remotely, that should be done. However, it may be the case that there is occasion when the Garda authorities require there to be gardaí in a courthouse. One of the things that An Garda Síochána do is provide a jury minding service. That is something we should take away from An Garda Síochána as well. In civil actions in Dublin there is a Courts Service official who is a jury minder. We need to try to introduce that into all criminal courts as well. However, it is also important that we ensure there is sufficient security within the courts. If gardaí are in courts, it should be for the purpose of giving evidence where it is essential for them to give that evidence. Alternatively, it may be the case that the Garda authorities believe there is a specific security threat and they are required in the court because of that.

As the Senator Ryan, I will be in Limerick next Monday. When I get the opportunity to meet members of An Garda Síochána there and commend them on the excellent work they do, I will certainly raise this issue and asking whether it could be resolved through ensuring that we did not have as many members of An Garda Síochána at Mulgrave Street courthouse.

Ultimately it is a matter for An Garda Síochána but I have listened very carefully to what the Senator has had to say and it is part of my policy agenda to ensure we get gardaí out onto the streets where the public want to see them.

Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. That is a really welcome response. We look forward to welcoming him to Limerick next week and for many engagements. Perhaps we will hear more directly from Chief Superintendent Smart on this topic. If we were to have these gardaí released back to Henry Street Garda Station, it would be a much-welcomed addition to our forces in Limerick. I look forward to engaging with the Minister further on that.

I commend and thank him and his Department on the support for the community access support team, CAST, which is a pioneering innovation and pilot scheme in Limerick. It further demonstrates the Minister's commitment to trialling new and innovative ways of engaging with the public. This pilot scheme places a mental health professional in a squad car with a member of the Garda Síochána. At the moment we are trialling it from within existing Garda resources. That is to ensure that in the case of an emergency call where a policing response is not the most appropriate response, there is a mental health professional on the scene to give the appropriate care to that individual. From speaking to the HSE and the gardaí in Limerick, the initial results have been really exciting for everybody involved. We look forward to briefing the Minister on that next week when he is down.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator. Immigration registration functions were performed by members of An Garda Síochána and we changed that earlier this year. Those functions have been transferred to civilians or members of staff within my Department. We need to keep trying to identify the type of work gardaí are doing at present that can be done by civilians within An Garda Síochána or, as is the case of immigration registration functions, within my Department. I am very committed to the contents of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland report. It has come up with some excellent ideas. The legislation that was suggested in the report has already been enacted, and I commenced it a number of weeks ago. There is a broad recognition on the part of the Government and policymakers that the purpose of our legislation and policy decisions when it comes to gardaí is to ensure that we get them out on the streets. That is where people want to see them. We are in a lucky position whereby there is no place that gardaí cannot go. In fact, what people want is to see more of them in their communities. I again thank the Senator for raising this matter.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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There is a vote in the Dáil. I ask the Acting Leader to move the suspension of House for the duration of the vote.

Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I move that we suspend for the duration of the vote.