Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, who is a former Member of the House, back to Seanad Éireann in his new capacity. I think I saw his father in Leinster House earlier. He might be coming back to visit us as well.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister of State. He was here last week on an related matter, which is fairly interesting. Last week I talked about regulation for the public sector compared with regulation for the private sector. If there was a case to be made for my proposals last week, the matter I am raising today illustrates the sort of problems and challenges we have around our public housing.

Let us get to the point. The headline on a recent article by Olivia Kelly in The Irish Times stated that the Government had refused funding for the regeneration of Pearse House flats in Dublin city centre . That prompted me to look into the matter in more detail. I read all of the national papers every day. I made contact with Dublin City Council and some of the councillors involved in Dublin city and I made a number of other inquiries. It appears that the Department of housing and local government has refused funding for Dublin City Council's plans to regenerate the Pearse House complex. I understand that the Department has decided not to fund the proposed project of amalgamating smaller flat units to create new larger homes on the site. The reason cited by the Department is that the council's plans would result in a reduction in the total number of homes, despite the fact that the existing smaller flat units do not meet the current minimum size standards.

The first phase of the work would have seen 78 flats in the 1930s Pearse House complex, which, as a protected structure is a complication in itself, amalgamate into 44 new residential units for the city. That is something that I thought the Minister of State and the Department, and certainly I, would very much welcome. Seven years ago Dublin City Council announced plans to regenerate more than 6,000 of Dublin city's oldest flats, many of which are in a state of dilapidation, under a 15-year plan to raise social housing standards across the city. Many of the older residential flats on Dublin City Council's books simply do not meet the current building standards regarding accessibility, fire safety and building quality and have significant issues, including mould, condensation, sewerage problems and issues around health and safety. All these are issues I spelled out to the Minister of State only a week ago. He will be aware that Dublin City Council was the subject of a 2017 ruling from the European Committee of Social Rights relating to the poor condition of some of its older flat complexes. The Strasbourg-based committee found the human rights of tenants had been breached because of the failure to provide them with adequate housing.

In 2020 Dublin City Council produced plans for the Pearse House complex. The Minister of State is aware of them. The complex has 345 social flats designed by the renowned architect Herbert Simms and built around 1936. There are challenges with these buildings. We know that. The project was to be completed in 11 phases over 12 to 15 years, reducing the number of flats to between 215 and 275. We have not even got the first phase of this plan under way. In response to queries the Department said it was not in a position to support a proposal that would result in significant loss of homes. Surely, it has to be about quality and standards rather than numbers. The numbers are quite small and I am not sure what all that is about. It has been suggested by some that this is simply a delaying tactic by the Department to come behind the scheme. I am not saying that, but it has been suggested.

St. Michan's House, Chancery House, Oliver Bond House and Markievicz House are old complexes that need significant work. We need to show the local authority that we are behind them. I am interested to hear the Minister of State's response.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Boyhan for raising this important matter. Pearse House, as he rightly pointed out, is a flat complex of some 345 homes which was designed by the city housing architect, Mr. George Herbert Simms, and built between 1936 and 1938 for Dublin Corporation under the housing Act 1932. The project plan for the regeneration of Pearse House is a matter for the local authority concerned. However, Dublin City Council has advised the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage that it is further developing proposals to advance the regeneration of the flat complex. Having first received capital appraisal approval from my Department in April 2021, the subsequent pre-planning proposal by Dublin City Council for the regeneration of blocks L, M, N and P in Pearse House was to reduce the number of homes from 78 to 44. This would have resulted in the council having to find permanent accommodation for some 34 families. We are all very acutely aware of the challenges in terms of social housing provision across the country and the Department was not in a position at that time to support proposals that would result in a significant loss of homes.

Dublin City Council, however, has informed the Department that it has instructed its integrated design team to review the design strategy to maximise all possibilities to ensure that the maximum number of homes are available post-refurbishment. This work is currently ongoing and the council will continue to liaise with the Department of housing in order to progress the submission of the revised funding application. This work will ensure the project continues to fruition with the optimal design for all parties concerned.

One of the challenges of the project is that the Pearse House complex is included on Dublin City Council's record of protected structures. This presents certain complexities when undertaking structural works, as the Senator will appreciate. As stipulated in section 51(1) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, the formulation of the record of protected structures is a reserved function of the elected members and the planning authority. As per section 30 of the Act, and notwithstanding sections 28 or 29, the Minister "shall not exercise any power or control in relation to any particular case with which a planning authority or the Board is or may be concerned". A review of the record of the protected structures is typically undertaken as part of the development plan review process. The planning authority can also make an addition to or deletion from the record of protected structures at any time, following the procedures set out under the Act.

As I said already, Dublin City Council will revert to the Department following the design appraisal it is currently undertaking in order to maximise the quantum of housing that will be delivered on the site post-regeneration and the Department looks forward to receiving those proposals.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. This ties in with the issue of standards in the public and private sector, which we will revisit at another time. In relation to Pearse House we need to send out a clear message. Are we committed or not? The fact that the complex is a protected structure is not the issue here. There are challenges around protected structures. The Minister of State and I, as former councillors, know that is a reserved function. The councillors have taken advice and made that decision. In fact, I understand the Department is very sympathetic to the retention to old housing stock. We have to respond to the challenges.

The key message is that we cannot encourage a local authority to go down a road and then stop it halfway. These homes are in one of the most deprived parts of Dublin. This is very old social housing stock and we cannot compromise on quality and standards. There are regulations set down about current standards and the standards that apply in the private sector must also apply in the public sector and vice versa. That is the problem. I am not prepared to stand over, sell or make a case for compromised sizes or standards in accommodation for people regardless of their income or where they are coming from. I urge the Minister of State to ensure that departmental officials make this a priority.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Again, I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I wish to state unequivocally that the Department is absolutely committed to this regeneration and the regeneration of many other flat complexes across the country but we have to get it right. That is why we are awaiting proposals from Dublin City Council in that regard.We provide funding through a number of channels: the social housing investment programme, the affordable housing fund, the capital advance leasing facility, the cost rental equity loan and regeneration for remedial works, and these are through our estate regeneration fund. We look forward to receiving those proposals from Dublin City Council when they are forthcoming in order that we can find that balance between the quantum of units to be delivered on the site to regenerate the site to a high quality standard for the people who live there and ensure we continue work across other areas as well as Pearse House.