Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh Marian. I am used to calling her "Marian" because she is from my own area.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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I am used to calling the Senator "Nessa".

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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She is very welcome. My Commencement matter today is on an issue the Minister of State will be very familiar with as she is from our own area. As background for everyone else in the House, Donegal Education Support Centre has been based in Donegal town for 28 years. It offers CPD support for primary and post-primary teachers across County Donegal. Some 95% of its classes are online. It is 100% funded by the Department of Education. The Department and the management committee have been negotiating on proposals to move the centre to Letterkenny. There is a lot of resistance to this proposal, primarily from the six women employed in the centre but also from many local councillors and TDs. I give great credit to Councillor Jimmy Brogan and Deputy Charles Ward for raising this matter.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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If I may interrupt the Senator for just a moment, there is a vote in the Dáil. Does the Minister of State need to attend?

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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I do.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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As the Senator has just started and there is three minutes to go until the vote, the Minister of State is permitted to leave if she would like to and we can then start again. Is that okay?

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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That is okay.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I apologise. We will continue afterwards, with the agreement of the House. We have no choice. The Minister of State has to go. Is it agreed to suspend the House for the duration of the vote? Agreed.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Nessa Cosgrove. With the permission of the Minister of State, I will allow Senator Cosgrove to start again because it is important to keep the flow of it.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin. She is very welcome again.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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We will stick to the time for the rest of the session in order that everyone can get their Commencement matter in.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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That is great. The Minister of State is welcome again.

My Commencement matter is in regard to Donegal Education Support Centre, which provides training and CPD training to primary and post-primary schools for the past 28 years in Donegal town. A total of 95% of classes are delivered online and there are outreach services throughout the country. It employs six female staff who are based in Donegal town. The Donegal Education Support Centre, however, has required that the staff move their place of work to Letterkenny, which is more than 60 km away.

This issue has been going on now for a while. The Minister of State has met with a lot of local representatives. I know they have had a meeting here. Senator Manus Boyle has been very supportive in this regard. Deputy Charles Ward and particularly Councillor Jimmy Brogan in Donegal town have been raising this issue a lot. There is another meeting happening tomorrow night.

I would like for the Minister of State to come back with a clear answer. The trade union, Fórsa, is involved and has requested that the Donegal Education Support Centre releases the business plan and evidence of consultation which has informed the move from Donegal town to Letterkenny. To date, however, it is refusing to do this, citing confidential matters. I would like the Minister of State to provide and release information, which would include the business plan, some of the evidence of the consultations which informed this business plan, who the stakeholders were and where they were based, as well as how the information was actually gathered that is trying to inform this plan.

I would also love to see the State recognise the fact that if the six female staff employed directly and funded by the Donegal Education Support Centre were seen under the public service agreement, it would be seen as inappropriate for them to move more than 45 km from their workplace, whereas Letterkenny is more than 60 km. While I am aware the Minister of State has come back saying she is looking into it and that the management committee has put forward a substantial business plan, I am seeking the evidence that is supporting that business plan, to find out whom the consultations were with, as well as more information regarding how this development plan came about.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the Senator. I am very pleased to be able to respond to her and to do so on behalf of the Department. It is important to note the vital role the 28 education support centres throughout the country have on the delivery of national programmes of teacher professional learning. I am aware they also are an invaluable local resource for teachers in their catchment areas and are providing tailored and responsive professional learning opportunities for teachers to meet their identified needs in the region.

The Department of Education funds these centres and monitors governance. Under section 37 of the Education Act, each centre is required to have a management committee, appointed by the members of the centre, whose function by law is to manage the business and staff of that centre. Decisions about how to run the centre to achieve the best teacher professional learning opportunities for all teachers in the centre’s catchment area, including where to locate the centre, are a matter for the management committee. While I hear what the Senator says, I am just outlining the legal position.

I understand that, in advance of its decision to relocate, the management committee of Donegal ESC consulted with stakeholders, including teachers, school leaders, the Donegal Education and Training Board, the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, Atlantic Technological University, ATU, and Oide during March and April 2024 – just over 12 months ago - and that stakeholders supported and encouraged the move. The teacher consultation took the form of a digital survey that was distributed to primary, post-primary and special schools within the county.I am informed that the management committee also analysed the spread of primary and post-primary schools in County Donegal and attempted to identify the optimal location for an education support centre. A business case supporting the move to Letterkenny, a more central location, was developed. Donegal Education Support Centre engaged with the Department of Education officials on the business case and, as part of normal, good governance, queries were raised by the Department and addressed by the centre. These included queries on the potential financial implications of the move. Following the engagement, the Department of Education informed the management committee in mid-December of last year that it accepted the reasons underpinning the decision to relocate to Letterkenny.

As education support centres are independent bodies, the management committee is responsible for managing the business and staff of the ESC. All decisions in relation to the terms and conditions of staff employment are a matter for the management committee. The staff members of the ESC are not State employees and as such do not have entitlements to public sector benefits. They do, however, enjoy all the standard employment protections associated with an organisational decision such as this. It should be noted that the centre has confirmed that the director and management committee members have been communicating with staff members about this issue since November 2023 and were in contact with Fórsa representatives who are acting on behalf of the staff as early as May 2024. The management committee has developed a hybrid working model which allows staff the option of working from home for two days per week and flexibility around start and finish times. Fórsa has now requested WRC mediation, to which Donegal Education Support Centre has agreed. The management committee hopes this will provide a forum to address staff concerns.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for her response. I am aware that Fórsa is engaging and that there may be WRC intervention, which is welcome. The bottom line is that Fórsa would like to see a copy of the business plan. I do not think any campaign happens unless there is a reason. There is strong support from all the elected representatives. The move will have an effect on the business in Donegal town and footfall for the local economy there. It is also the case that 95% of the courses are delivered online and, although the move might possibly affect some part-time teachers who are travelling, this does raise questions as to why there is a need to move in the first place. I would still request that the Minister of State see if the business plan, which shows exactly where the consultation was, can be made available. There are concerns that some email addresses were not fully active at the time. They want to know exactly who the stakeholders were.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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I thank the Senator. The information that I have outlined shows that a decision to relocate was taken after a period of consultation and consideration by the management committee of Donegal Education Support Centre. The Department of Education, following detailed engagement, was satisfied from a governance and funding perspective that it could support the decision to relocate. I will say this much to the Senator. I have already had a meeting with all Donegal representatives, including Deputy Pat the Cope Gallagher, Senator Manus Boyle, Deputies Charlie McConalogue, Pearse Doherty, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and others. I hope I have not missed anybody. We had a meeting to discuss this with the Minister. Before I came into the House, I grabbed 20 seconds with her when she said she would consult and come back to us. I have no news for the Senator other than that. We are listening and it is to be hoped we can find a decision that works. I thank the Senator again for her intervention on this.