Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I congratulate the Minister of State on his new role. It is an important role, as we have seen, for communities across the country. It is also important the Minister of State is successful in it. I wish him the best of luck.

The Iveagh Gardens is a green lung for this city. They are more than just a park; they are a piece of our living history. They are one of the few surviving examples of gardens of this type. I suppose every tree tells a story, and to destroy these trees is to destroy the memory of the city.

The Iveagh Gardens are also an ecological haven in the heart of the city. I do not know if the Minister of State has visited the Iveagh Gardens. He could take a walk at lunchtime and he will see it is absolutely beautiful. At a time when climate change and urban sprawl are serious concerns, green spaces such as the Iveagh Gardens are more important than ever. Sacrificing the trees and green spaces in parks of this nature in order to build structures of concrete and glass would be a big mistake.

Many forget that the inner city is not only for shopping and dining. There are thousands of families living in the city. These families deserve better. We must protect the Iveagh Gardens for families who live in this city.

Twenty-one years ago, a charity called the Irish Children's Museum Limited, ICML, somehow got the OPW to sign a contract for it to build a science museum on the site of the National Concert Hall. The ICML is unaccountable. There is no transparency around it or around the public land given to it as a private entity. By any stretch of the imagination, this is extraordinary. An unaccountable and well-connected private entity, this charity, has been given public land. The ICML must come before the relevant Oireachtas committees, when they are set up, and answer some very important and serious questions.

When this project was originally set up, the estimated cost involved was €15 million. God knows what the cost would be now. The Iveagh Gardens should not pay a price just because some well-connected charity wants a vanity project, and that is what this is. I would be interested to know how and why a private charity can be accommodated within the building that houses the National Concert Hall. It has serviced offices there, with phones and heating provided. I would be interested in knowing who pays for all of that. Maybe the Minister of State will be able to get to the bottom of what is a fairly extraordinary situation.

There is already a children's science museum in Sandyford, which is approximately 10 km from here. The previous Minister launched it. The ICML wants to put another science museum in the city centre and destroy the Iveagh Gardens in the process. The plans relating to the National Concert Hall site will damage the Iveagh Gardens and cause the destruction of mature trees and boundary walls.

Almost 48,000 people have signed a petition relating to this matter. We need to save the Iveagh Gardens, which are a priceless asset for Dublin and for the communities and families of the inner city. They are ecologically, historically and culturally important for the communities in question. They belong to all of us and it is our duty to protect them for future generations.

Kevin Moran (Longford-Westmeath, Independent)
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I thank the Senator for raising this matter. The lveagh Gardens were placed in the care of the OPW in 1991. The OPW's remit includes the restoration and conservation of the gardens, while allowing greater public access. The OPW continues to restore and maintain the gardens. It will continue to do so into the future.

The Dublin City Council development plan reinforces the safeguarding of the lveagh Gardens through the zoning of the gardens as open space amenity. The lveagh Gardens are also listed on the register of protected structures. The OPW is committed to its role as custodian of the lveagh Gardens.

The proposed development of the national children's science centre received a full grant of planning permission from Dublin City Council in March 2024 following a third-party appeal to An Bord Pleanála.

The planning submission made by the OPW, along with the response to the third-party appeal issued to An Bord Pleanála, addressed all the issues raised regarding any possible impacts to the Iveagh Gardens. This is supported by An Bord Pleanála within the report of the inspectors. The concerns expressed in the petition from the Save the lveagh Gardens group were addressed as part of the OPW planning application. An Bord Pleanála accepted the OPW's submission in its decision.

The development of the national children's science centre will not lead to the destruction or any loss of the lveagh Gardens. It will, in fact, increase the overall area of the lveagh Gardens.

The proposed national children's science centre will be mainly located in the North Butler wing of the Earlsfort Terrace complex. Its development will form part of an overall restoration and refurbishment programme for this 110-year-old State-owned building. The important works will safeguard the historic site for another 100 years. This overall site restoration programme represents 58% of the total estimated cost of the national children's science centre project.

The outcome of the 2021 arbitration proceedings involving the OPW and the ICML found in favour of the latter. While there is a legally binding contract, the OPW is conscious of the concerns raised to the effect that this project should be subject to robust value-for-money analysis before Exchequer funding can be committed to it. Notwithstanding that, the OPW has a legal obligation to build the science centre in accordance with the contract. The provision of the funds to meet the costs of the development and separately the future operating model of the national children's science centre will need to be established and a Government decision will be required.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State. None of the issues I raised was addressed. The Save the Iveagh Gardens campaign is not happy with any proposals to destroy the area.The long boundary wall will be destroyed.

I invite the Minister of State to visit the gardens at lunchtime. They ware magnificent. The OPW does a very good job within the boundary walls, but to allow the destruction of the Iveagh Gardens is wrong. This proposal will lead to them being destroyed. The response of the Minister of State is not accurate. The Save the Iveagh Gardens campaign is very concerned about any proposals. There is already a children's science museum 10 km from here. This is not needed. Families need the gardens. We do not need a vanity project for a private charity.

Perhaps the Minister of State could investigate why the ICML charity has offices in the National Concert Hall building. Is it paying anything at all for those offices? This is an important question that needs to be answered. The Iveagh Gardens are a jewel in Dublin's crown and they have to be protected. Very little of the Minister of State's answer was accurate.

Kevin Moran (Longford-Westmeath, Independent)
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I could not agree with the Senator more. The Iveagh Gardens are a jewel in the crown and a site visited by great numbers of people. As I said in my response, the planning application was dealt with by An Bord Pleanála. It stated quite clearly that the development will do little or no damage to the site. I hear the Senator's point, and it is well made. It is something I will take further. I will come back to him on some of the questions he has asked he put to me. I will visit the site. There is no point saying I will not. This has gone on for a long number of years. Ultimately, a huge amount of money is needed to do what is required. It will be a Government decision and will not fall under my remit. I fully respect what the Senator said to me and I appreciate his remarks.