Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy John Cummins, who is a former Member of this House. I look forward to engaging with him in his role.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the Chamber and wish him well in his new role. It is wonderful to have a former Member of this House elevated to a Ministry. I know that during his term he will show this House and Members of this House the utmost respect, because he is a former Member.

I raise the issue of security for all public representatives right across the country. As the Minister of State knows, politics has changed in the past 20 years. Demands on politicians and local representatives have increased dramatically.The pressures and challenges they face, particularly with social media, have been recognised over recent years. There is an obligation on all of us in politics to encourage people to get into politics and serve their communities. One of the biggest challenges we have seen over the past ten years concerns the security and safety of all public representatives. A number of measures introduced in recent years have to be recognised and they have been prioritised by the Government, the Houses of the Oireachtas and the Minister of State's Department. A scheme has been put in place to support Oireachtas Members in securing their homes and offices and to provide security to the staff who work in their offices. This scheme was put in place about three years ago. A sum of €10,000 was available to invest in either one's home or office, and 50% of that could be reclaimed as an Oireachtas Member. A similar scheme was set up for councillors whereby they could spend €5,000 on safety measures in their homes, with 50% of that, or €2,500, reclaimable.

All this could be done only when a crime prevention officer came to visit one's house, produced a report and made recommendations on what needed to be done. That has been welcomed and has been good, but the problem is that the uptake has not been significant. The uptake by Oireachtas Members has not been significant, and the uptake among councillors has certainly not been. As the Minister of State knows, councillors are at the very front of local politics, and their security really matters. When we talk to councillors around the country, we hear that one of the reasons the uptake has not been great is the 50% rebate. Councillors recognise they need to get the works done and increase security for their families and staff working in their offices, but they have different circumstances and financial challenges. Councillors are not paid a lot, so having to pay for something up front if repaid only 50% does not encourage them greatly.

I ask that the Minister of State consider the changes made over recent months for Oireachtas Members whereby the amount they may spend was increased to two and half times the original value. Most important, there is a rebate of 100%. I do not believe for one second that we cannot take seriously the safety of councillors right across the country. We need to give them every opportunity to get into public life and feel as though they can devote themselves to it and contribute. However, most important, we need to ensure they are safe when doing their job.

If we recognise that the measures introduced three years ago were not sufficient for Oireachtas Members, we should also recognise that those introduced for councillors at the exact same time and based on the exact same recommendations, made by the group set up to make recommendations, have not been as successful as the Minister of State and I would like. Deputy Cummins, in his position as Minister of State responsible for local government, should consider this and what can be done to encourage and support councillors and keep them safe.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Ahearn. The matter is one on which I believe he has unanimous support in the Chamber.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Although it a little strange, it is fantastic to be back here in the Seanad Chamber for my first Commencement matter. I thank Senator Ahearn for raising this important matter, which I know all Members of the House will agree on. In the context of the recent revision of the security allowance made for Oireachtas Members, I have raised the issue with my officials. We want to make progress on it. I am grateful for the opportunity to go through what has been done on this matter thus far.

As the Senator has rightly stated, local government plays an important role in the life of the nation. It is responsible for the delivery of a wide range of local services, and elected councils provide vital forums for the democratic representation of our local communities. I am sure we will all agree that all elected representatives should be free to carry out their functions and representational role without fear of harassment or intimidation.Heightened adversarial attitudes to elected representatives are corrosive to democratic participation. This risks deterring potential new candidates and induces existing representatives to withdraw from public life.

As the Senator rightly pointed out, a scheme was introduced for local authority members that provides for up to €2,500 to be claimed back on expenditure of €5,000 on personal security on a once-off vouched basis. This is administered by local authorities. I asked for information regarding how many have drawn that down. Unfortunately, only 23 councillors have done so. The reason for that relates to many of the items the Senator pointed to. In making that vouched claim, applicants have to get a written report from a crime prevention officer, which is a prerequisite for both the Oireachtas and local authority schemes, and the security measures have to be installed by Private Security Authority-registered installers. As the Senator said, there has been a change in respect of the Oireachtas scheme. One of my first acts as Minister of State, when I met the team in the Custom House regarding local government matters, was to raise the issue of the security allowance for councillors. As a former local authority member and a former Member of this House, I understand how important it is. I want to see progress made on this as early as possible.

I met with LAMA with the AILG today on a wide range of local government issues, but this is one of the matters that both organisations raised. Thus far, my officials have engaged with Revenue, which has indicated that there is no issue with the 100% element the Senator referred to. What my officials now have to do is make a business case to the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. That business case is required to set out the rationale and evidence for any revision to the allowance, as well as its value and cost, and the ability of local authorities to meet the unforeseen costs that might arise in 2025.

As Minister of State with responsibility for local government, I am very clear that I want to see progress on this without delay because the security of councillors throughout this country is of the utmost importance to me.

Garret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. As he said, he knows this issue very well. He was a councillor for 11 years in Waterford City Council and mayor for two years. He knows the challenges and pressures councillors are under. Councillors also know that. I know from talking to a lot of councillors that they are very hopeful that he will be able to make changes. As he said, 23 people put in applications in 2024. We have more than 1,000 councillors, which shows there is something in the system that is wrong.

I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, after only a couple of weeks in the role, has already met LAMA and the AILG on a range of issues and on this matter in particular. I especially welcome his confirmation that the 100% element is not an issue because that is the most important part of it. I am sure he is getting recommendations for what the amount should be. That is clearly important in supporting councillors. The majority of councillors do not have offices so the amount would obviously be different from Oireachtas Members. From talking to councillors throughout the country, the key element is that 100% would be repaid. That seems to be the deterrent for local representatives throughout the country. They want to do it but cannot afford to, or are not in a position to be able to do it.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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It is important to state that Revenue does not have an issue with the 100% element. I have to make that business case to the Department of public expenditure regarding changes in that respect.The Senator has rightly pointed out that the lower amount for councillors, relative to the rate for Oireachtas Members, is in recognition of the fact that councillors do not, by and large, have offices. We must land at a figure for that business case but I am anxious for that process to be brought to a conclusion as early as possible. It is important to say that the existing scheme is still available. The commitment I will make is that should there be changes to the scheme, anybody making a claim under the existing requirements will not be negatively impacted. I implore councillors availing of the current scheme to do so because safety and security is of the utmost importance. I will work with the entire House to make progress on this issue.