Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party)
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I welcome the Minister of State. This is the second Commencement matter I have tabled on the Citizens' Assembly on Education, but I have brought the issue up many times with the Minister for Education. As I understand it from the Department of Education, it has referred the matter to the Department of an Taoiseach which is why I have addressed this Commencement matter to that Department. We know from previous citizens' assemblies such as the Citizens' Assembly on Climate Action, in particular, and on abortion, that we have had significant change in this country because citizens have been given all of the information and have sat down and looked at it, engaged in dialogue with each other and come up with recommendations themselves. When it comes to education, I am sure we can all agree that it is one of the most important functions of the State. It is enshrined in our Constitution and has a massive budget.

A quarter of that budget is for special needs education. We need to now go back and ask people if it is delivering for them, in order for us to be able to invest whichever way decide we are going to to invest, but it has to be based on something. I am getting frustrated and I am sure the Minister can hear that. This was a key commitment in the programme for Government, the last citizens' assembly on drugs is over and all of the Departments have been aware for over four years that they are working to a target of doing a citizens' assembly on education. I want to know what the date is and I want to know how it is progressing and if all of the Departments have done their work to underpin this going forward. I would love to also hear what the plans are to include young people and children in the citizens' assembly. It was done to an extent in the Citizens' Assembly on Biodiversity - there was a parallel process - but there is a way in which we can have everyone, no matter what age they are, sitting around the table together to discuss these important matters. Certainly from having spoken to people from within the Department of Education, they would like to see the same thing happen.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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On behalf of the Taoiseach, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the Seanad today and I want to thank Senator O'Reilly for raising this matter. The citizens' assembly is an exercise in deliberative democracy and places the citizen at the heart of important legal and policy issues facing Irish society. Citizens' assemblies operating independently of Government and reporting directly to the Houses of the Oireachtas, were first established in Ireland in 2013 when the Convention on the Constitution was set up. Since then, the assemblies have become an important part of our democratic process with previous forums deliberating on a variety of matters feeding directly into the formulation of proposals for Constitutional reform. The terms of reference for the assemblies are set by the Oireachtas. The assemblies bring together 99 randomly chosen members of the public to discuss and consider important legal and policy issues and, ultimately, to make recommendations to the Houses of the Oireachtas. It is the members of the citizens' assemblies who decide on all matters relating to its operation, including its rules and procedures, the schedule of meetings and, subject to the resolution passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas, the prioritisation of the work programme.

Assemblies operate in an open and transparent manner, with public proceedings live streamed on the assembly’s website. Each assembly also engages with the wider public, academia, civil society and stakeholders, by inviting submissions on the topic under consideration. The programme for Government, Our Shared Future, committed to establishing four citizens assemblies on the topics of biodiversity loss; the type of directly elected mayor and local government structures best suited for Dublin; drug use; and the future of education. Three of those four citizens' assemblies have now concluded their work and submitted their reports to the Oireachtas, as required under their terms of reference. The Dublin Citizens' Assembly concluded its meetings in October of 2022 and submitted its report to the Oireachtas in December 2022.The Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage published its response to the report in December 2023. The Citizens' Assembly on Biodiversity Loss concluded its meetings in January 2023 and submitted its report to the Oireachtas in March 2023. The Joint Committee on the Environment and Climate Action published its response to the report in December. The Minister and officials in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage are now leading on the preparation of a whole-of-government response to the recommendations of both the Dublin Citizens' Assembly and the Citizens' Assembly on Biodiversity Loss, and responses will be published in due course, once they have been finalised.

The Citizens’ Assembly on Drugs Use concluded its meetings in October of last year and submitted its report to the Oireachtas in December. The report was published on 25 January. The Dáil and Seanad referred the report to the relevant joint committee, which has commenced its consideration of the report.

The question of establishing a citizens’ assembly on the future of education will need to be subject to a Government decision and resolutions of the Dáil and Seanad in due course. Such a citizens' assembly would cover the full spectrum of the education lifecycle, from early childhood, through primary, secondary, further and higher education to lifelong learning. Consequently, the drafting of terms of reference would seek input from several Ministers. These would include the Ministers for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Education and Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science.

Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party)
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On the terms of reference, I suppose the question is whether input from the Ministers has been sought. I understand the Minister for Education has had an input. Given that the Taoiseach is a former Minister for further and higher education, I hope he and the Minister for Children have also had an input. Of course, we need to pass a resolution of both Houses, but we need a Government decision in the first instance in order to facilitate that. As a Senator and as a Green Party spokesperson on education, I am trying to use this opportunity to exert pressure. We are in the final year of this Government. The time to get the Government decision and get the resolutions passed is here. We are coming into summer recess. I am concerned, as are all of those who have advocated for the establishment of a citizens’ assembly, that we are running out of time. I would like the Minister of State to go back to the Taoiseach and get him to hurry this along.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The Senator is right. This is the last year of the Government. Three of the four citizens’ assemblies were established and have done their work. This is the final one. Looking at the experience as to how the previous citizens’ assemblies were set up, what happens is that a proposal from the relevant Department is submitted to the Department of the Taoiseach. The latter then co-ordinates the establishment of the assembly. In this case, it is a little more complex because there appear to be three different Departments involved. In the case of the drugs citizens’ assembly, the Minister of State with responsibility for public health prepared the proposal and sent it in to the Department of the Taoiseach. I will speak to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, about this matter. The question is which Department is the lead Department and which of the three Ministers should prepare the proposal for submission to the Department of the Taoiseach in order that we do not have a shared responsibility that leads to not getting the action that is needed.

I can hear the frustration and anxiety. I know the Senator has raised this matter on a number of occasions. Clearly, she has a concern that the Government will run its course without getting around to doing the fourth of citizens' assembly. I would say because we have now run fully through the course of three citizens’ assemblies, the process is now properly understood within the Government. I will ask the relevant Ministers which should be the lead Department. Maybe the Department of the Taoiseach needs to suggest which of the three should lead. Maybe it needs to be a Government decision as to which of those Ministers takes the lead in the context of setting up the assembly. It is incredibly important.

The Senator said she wants to make sure that young people will have an input. Most young people under 18 years of age are in full-time education, and, of course, they need to have a role in the citizens’ assembly. Their experience and their views will be key. I absolutely accept that. I will follow up with the relevant Ministers. If the Senator comes back to my office on the matter, I will tell her how I get on.