Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I am delighted to present this Bill, which is an essential step to enhance and strengthen the existing framework for regulating charities in Ireland. Our charity sector is an important and valued part of Irish society, playing an integral role in the provision of services to our communities. With just under 11,500 charities on the Charities Register, the work of the regulator is vitally important.

The Bill delivers on a programme for Government commitment to ensure that the Charities Regulator has the necessary powers to carry out its duties and to increase trust and confidence in the management and administration of charities. The Bill is a key step that needs to be implemented in order to allow for the appropriate regulation, particularly financial regulation, of the charity sector.

Throughout this legislative process, my officials and I have engaged actively with the charity sector, to listen and take on board the observations of a wide number of stakeholders. In tandem, the Bill has also gone through a very constructive pre-legislative scrutiny, and I take this opportunity to thank the members of the Joint Oireachtas Committee for Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands for their engagement on draft proposals.

The approach taken in this Bill reflects this diversity in the scale and complexity of the organisations that make up the charity sector in Ireland. I have sought to address all matters raised, where it has been feasible.

I now turn to the main provisions in the Bill. The Bill is divided into three Parts, with 40 sections in total. Part 1 of the Bill covers sections 1 and 2, and addresses preliminary and general matters. It includes standard provisions relating to the Title, commencement and a definition of the principal Act. Part 2 of the Bill includes sections 3 to 38, inclusive, and provides for a number of amendments to the Charities Act 2009. It is the most substantive Part of the Bill. Part 3 of the Bill contains sections 39 and 40 and provides for amendments to the Charities Act 1961, and the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 respectively.

Section 3 includes updates to existing definitions as well as the introduction of new definitions, for the purpose of clarity under the Act. Section 4 defines the charitable purposes under existing law and establishes the advancement of human rights as a recognised charitable purpose under Irish law for the first time. A key part of this process will be the introduction of guidelines in relation to this proposed charitable purpose. These guidelines will be developed in consultation with experts in this area, including representatives from the sector.

Provisions in sections 5 and 6 are intended to strengthen the broader regulatory landscape, including enabling the Charities Regulator to enter into additional administrative cooperation

arrangements with other relevant bodies. Section 7 includes a number of provisions that underpin a fair and equitable registration process for organisations seeking charitable status, as well as assisting the Charities Regulator in maintaining accurate and comprehensive information on the Register of Charities. This is of critical importance to build public trust and confidence in the sector.Section 9 will require that charities seek approval from the Charities Regulator in circumstances where they want to change their charitable purpose or change a specified clause. Sections 10 to 14, inclusive, set out in further detail the process involved where the removal of an organisation from the register is proposed.

The Bill expands the grounds under which appeals to the Charity Appeals Tribunal can be made. The tribunal itself adjudicates on appeals against certain decisions of the Charities Regulator and is independent in the performance of its statutory functions.

Provisions in section 17 ensure that charities that are also companies are held to the same set as rules as charities that are associations, removing an existing financial reporting exemption that occurred following the introduction of the Companies Act in 2014. It will also facilitate the introduction of much-needed financial regulations for the sector. These regulations will include a specified format for the submission of annual accounts and reports proportionate to the size of the charity, and an increase in existing thresholds for the preparation of accounts and the requirement for audits. This will not only afford the regulator greater visibility on the accounts of individual charities but will also lessen the administrative burden on these smaller, mainly volunteer-led charities, and ensure that moneys are being utilised in line with the charitable purpose of the organisation.

Our charity trustees play a key role in developing public trust and confidence in the charity sector. Section 22 will provide clarity on the roles and responsibilities of trustees. It is important to emphasise that these are not new or additional duties; they are a statement of the duties to which charity trustees are already subject under common law and they will not result in any additional burden. The codification of duties should, in fact, help guide charity trustees by providing greater clarity as to the nature of the duties that apply to all charity trustees and by providing a point of reference for charity trustees to inform their discussions with each other and with their charity's employees and other volunteers.

Section 30 contains amendments that propose to expand the range of circumstances in which the regulator can impose intermediate sanctions for certain breaches under the Act. In the circumstance where sanctions are warranted, they can provide a more effective and balanced regulatory remedy as an alternative to prosecution.

Section 31 contains a number of additional measures to protect both the assets of the charitable organisation and the trustees who exercise control over it. Both of these measures will serve to protect the interests of the charity itself and those who have worked hard to establish and grow its operations. This section will also ensure that where trustees are appointed by the High Court to assume control of a charitable organisation, they will be afforded indemnity from liability from damages with respect to matters that arose prior to their appointment.

Section 34 clarifies the basis on which an agreement or appointment can be entered into by a charity with a "relevant person". A declaration of such agreements and appointments will be incorporated into their annual reporting requirements to the Charities Regulator. Trustees of the charity will need to satisfy themselves that any such agreement or appointment is in the best interest of the charity and not in contravention of its constitution. It is important to highlight that such agreements and appointments should be considered only in exceptional circumstances.

Section 39 contains an important provision that provides for a charity to make an application to dispose of land to another charity for less than the market value when that charity also has the same charitable purpose. This will allow for the transfer of charity land to other charities better able to continue or re-establish the use of the land for charitable purposes for the benefit of the public.

I emphasise the importance of this Bill. To ensure that our charities continue to thrive, we urgently require an updated legal framework that reflects the reality of operations on the ground. The proposals contained in the Bill will strengthen the regulatory structure that charities operate within and safeguard the future of this valued sector for years to come. I commend the Bill to the House.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I presume it is safe to say this Bill was quite a number of years in gestation. I hope that when it comes to fruition, it will do exactly what he said, namely bring much confidence to the charitable organisations and the sector. People kindly give to many charities. As he said, there are 11,500 charities. This is a large number in a small country and it means a huge number of people employed in the sector and a large number of CEOs and charitable boards. These organisations have not been well run in some cases, to say the least. These cases have been brought to the attention of the public, who have lost confidence in some charities. I hope this Bill will restore the confidence of the public, who in most cases fund the organisations. There is no doubt that the organisations do great work. This work could not be done by the public service. If the work had to be carried out by the public service, we would have a huge, bulging public sector in the State. I do not know if this would lead to the most efficient way of running many organisations. I hope that when this Bill passes through the Houses, it will result in more transparency in the running of the organisations and more accountability. There is a huge body of work for the regulator to do to ensure the functions of the 11,500 charitable organisations throughout the country are exercised properly, that the organisations are accountable to their board members and that the board members will ensure everything is above board.

Quite recently, we have seen many GoFundMe pages set up. They fund many charitable events and result in the carrying out of much charitable work. Are the setting up, running and administration of the funds collected covered by the Bill and will this area be regulated by the regulator? As we know, one bad apple can give a bad name to all the organisations. We have seen this happen. The GoFundMe pages are on the go more and more and are set up overnight to carry out the intended work, whether it is to bring home a person who has fallen ill or someone who has had a crash in a country far away from Ireland. They do unbelievable work, and great credit is due to those who do that sort of work and set up and administer the funds. However, is it covered by the Bill? Will the regulator have a say in how the funds are set up? Will it oversee how the funds are disbursed at the finish? Will a board be put in place to administer the GoFundMe pages? This is an area that should be examined. If it is not covered in the Bill, it should be.

I wish the Minister of State well with this. There are some unbelievable charitable organisations and they do unbelievable work, but I hope this legislation will result in more transparency and accountability right across the board and give more confidence to the people working in the organisations such that they will know that there is appropriate accountability. When people who contribute to charity find out there is more accountability and that the Charities Regulator has certain powers, they will have the confidence to continue to support the charities and the confidence in their staff that those staff deserve.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I wish to follow on from my colleague Senator Paddy Burke. This legislation is very much about bringing confidence to people who work in the charity sector but also to the members of the public who donate to it. That is the key aspect. The Minister of State said there are 11,500 charities in this country. I am amazed that the number is that high. When I was watching “The Tonight Show” two nights ago, the guests were talking about homelessness charities and it was said that there are approximately 24 operating in Dublin city centre, or Dublin itself. I was amazed at that figure, too. It shows how widespread the charity sector is. Therefore, appropriate transparency is required.While there are so many great charities that do such important work throughout this island and in our communities, there are going to be some charities that are not going to be able to do it well. They are the people who breach public trust. When they cannot do it well, whether in proper financing or auditing or having proper financial controls, the charity sector as a whole can get a bad name. The legislation today is really designed to provide that greater level of transparency for everybody, which is important. It also enhances the legal framework for the Charities Regulator, as the Minister of State mentioned, which is important to acknowledge.

On GoFundMe, I would be keen to hear the Minister of State's response to Senator Burke's queries. It is actually a great analogy of the charities sector itself. There are great examples of funds being raised very quickly for people in dire need. At the same time, there are other examples of GoFundMe appeals being raised for very questionable issues where people do not know where the money is going. We have seen some public examples in this country in the last 18 months to two years, where some people are saying the money was raised for them, others are saying it was raised for somebody else, and they are getting into disputes.

All in all, the basis of this legislation is about providing for that level of transparency to make sure there is rock solid confidence for those working in the charity sector and the public who are donating to it, and so that all of us in these Houses have confidence in a very important sector in this country.

Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I am glad the law in respect of charities is the subject of updating legislation. I have a couple of problems I would ask the Minister of State to consider. On the provisions of sections 3 and 4, as I see it, the effect of these sections is to establish new definitions of charitable purposes for the purposes of the Charities Act. The introduction of the advancement of human rights as a recognised charitable purpose under Irish law for the first time is slightly problematic. The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission defines human rights as civil and political rights, as well as economic and social rights. If we took that as our yardstick, is every body established for the advancement of economic and social rights to be considered charitable in these circumstances? I note that the Minister of State says a key part of this process will be the introduction of guidelines in respect of this proposed charitable purpose but I do not see where the statutory basis for those guidelines arises. I would like to know by whom those guidelines will be issued.

I would also like to know whether the Houses of the Oireachtas will be able to determine what does and does not amount to a charitable purpose, given the very wide definition. Going by the IHREC website, the definition is very wide of what human rights actually are for the purposes of that body. Is a different measure being applied here? There is no definition given of human rights for the purposes of this section. It is an extremely broad concept. They could be political movements. They could include, for example, the National Women's Council and NGOs of all kinds, which are suddenly being given charitable status. I wonder whether this is wise. If we do establish these as charitable purposes, we are introducing safeguards as to how they are run but we are also establishing taxation and other privileges for them which may or may not be appropriate.

My concept of the advancement of human rights could be quite different from Senator Murphy's concept. We probably agree on most things but we could radically disagree on some concept of what human rights are or are not. We see arguments on the floor of this House, for example, about whether surrogacy is a human right. I would like to know what the Minister of State actually means by saying that a key part of widening the definition of charitable purposes under existing law to "the advancement of human rights" for the first time in terms of what the result will be. How many more bodies will become so-called charitable organisations coming under the remit of the Charities Regulator if this takes place? If you raise money for what one person believes is the advancement of human rights and what another believes is antipathetic to human rights, who is going to decide that? This is an issue I would like to see teased out more accurately.

I would like to have a workable definition of human rights. Is it the same as what the IHREC applies to the term on its website, which is immensely broad, including social and economic rights? If NGOs of that kind become charitable organisations, where does that leave the likes of political parties? Are they charitable or not? What party would actually say, hand on heart, that they are not in the business of advancing human rights? Are we casting the net too wide? The Minister of State said in his speech that a key part of this process will be the introduction of guidelines in respect of the advancement of human rights, and that these guidelines will be developed in consultation with experts in this area including representatives from the sector. Who are the experts in the human rights field who are going to be consulted? Who is going to do the consulting and who is going to lay down the parameters of what is and what is not included in the term "human rights"? The Act in its current form talks about other things of public benefit and of benefit to the community. This is much more specific than that, however. I would like to see what it actually means in reality.

Section 4 of the Bill provides that section 3 of the principal Act is amended in subsection (1) by the deletion of paragraph (d), and "by the insertion of the following paragraphs after paragraph (d)" after which it inserts new paragraphs (e) to (r). Is there to be a paragraph (d) in section 3(1) of the Act from now on? Is it going to jump from paragraph (c) to paragraph (e), given that paragraph (e) is the next paragraph in quotation marks to be added after the deleted paragraph (d)? Is there some convention that all the letters will change to allow for the deletion of paragraph (d)?

There is one other point that I want to raise for the consideration of the Minister of State. It is something I came across in the course of my work. There are restrictions on persons receiving salaries who are in charge of charities. That seems very plausible until we come to the situation where, for example, a university is a charitable body.Does the fact that the president receives a salary from a university by virtue of the fact that he or she is the head of that university mean that the person in charge of the board of the university, that is, the president, the person who chairs the board and receives a salary for doing do, is prohibited by other provisions of the Act, as unamended, from receiving a salary, or is there a difficulty in those circumstances? It is an issue I came across in the course of my professional life and it caused me some difficulty of interpretation. It seemed to me that a university is and can be a charity. If, however, its president can draw a salary and is in charge of the board of that charitable body, there seems to be a problem in prohibiting the head of the board of the charity from deriving a salary from it. I ask the Minister of State to deal with that.

In general terms, however, I am positive towards this legislation. I believe that the Charities Regulatory Authority needs to be in a position to enforce the law relating to charities. I take on board what my friends have said about a multiplicity of charities. Sometimes one wonders if there is needless duplication, and perhaps the authority should have a role in pointing out to the public where there is duplication and where there could be a case for a merger or whatever. In general terms, however, everyone in Ireland wants an effective charities regulatory regime. They want to ensure that money given for charitable purposes is spent wisely and economically in pursuit of those purposes and that administrative and employment expenses are kept within reasonable bounds, bearing in mind the nature of the activities carried on by the charity.

Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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Before I bring in Senator Murphy, I welcome the Minister of State, Dara Calleary, to the Chamber with his friends. I hope he has given them a nice guided tour and will look after them afterwards. Enjoy the rest of your trip here. Senator Murphy has ten minutes.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I may not use the ten minutes.

Fianna Fáil welcomes the support for the Bill. We all know that charities play an integral role in the provision of services to our communities. Where would we be as a society without all the work that is done in areas of great need, whether it is cancer, heart diseases or whatever else, in a voluntary capacity up and down this country? Those people have done us all a great service. The Bill is needed, as Senator McDowell said. I have a few issues of clarification on it but, in general, most of what is in it is positive and needed. We only have to think of the massive amount that is raised through our charities. It is important that we have proper regulation as regards all the money that is involved.

I was talking to a trustee of an organisation the other night. We were talking about this amendment Bill and she said to me that it will put extra responsibility and duty on people who will not want to be trustees, but, actually, that is not true. I know there are a number of amendments relating to charity trustee duties, but it is really important to distinguish that these are not new or additional duties. They are already in place. We should avoid the confusion and send the message to people that this is not something new and that it is just to tighten up everything and make sure that everything is run in a good and proper way. There are statements of duties to which charity trustees are already subject under common law. Including them in statute will further enhance and empower both existing trustees and potential trustees by giving them greater clarity in respect of roles and responsibilities.

The Bill also takes account of the operational experience of the Charities Regulator in the years since it was established in 2014. There have been some specific instances where the regulator has not had the sufficient powers available to it to deal directly with a known issue. We are all aware of those types of situations. For example, the Bill seeks to clarify and strengthen the regulator's powers to intervene when there is no effective management or board oversight in a charity. I welcome that, and the Minister of State will probably clarify that when he replies.

Up and down this country, all of us are aware of people who get together in a community and do a fundraiser for the Irish Cancer Society or the Mayo Roscommon Hospice. Researching this, I see that our county of Roscommon is second in the country only to Laois in giving to charities, so we have a good name in that regard in the county, and many people get involved in fundraising. Sometimes, however, people take it upon themselves within a community to raise money for a particular cause, and I am not casting any aspersions on anybody, but it would be important that this Bill would not interfere with what they do. I advise people in that regard, say, if they are raising for the Mayo Roscommon Hospice, to be sure they invite along somebody from the hospice or from the board, a trustee of their organisation or whatever because that would be important as well.

I am on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands and, as the Minister of State will be aware, since he is involved with the committee, we did a lot of scrutiny of this Bill. We had him in on two occasions. I was not there on one occasion, but that was back in 2022. He took up a number of points from those discussions and took them on board because he was anxious to ensure that the points that were made would be answered and looked after and clarification got on them.

I note the section to which Senator McDowell referred. I would not be able to speak as eloquently as the Senator on it or put the point as well as him, but I had marked here that the Minister of State might give us an explanation of the advancements of human rights, which I know he will do when he is replying. Senator McDowell probably put the question for me when he gave his point of view.

I welcome section 3 and many of its provisions, as well as anything to do with the advancement of community development, the promotion of civic responsibility or voluntary work. Section 4(a)(ii)(g), relating to "the promotion of civic responsibility or voluntary work", reminds me that when there is a crisis in a community or a parish, whether it is a family that has come in from abroad and needs help or something else, the local communities get together, fundraise and look after people. They play a major role in all of that type of fundraising. As regards that amendment to section 3 of the principal Act, "the promotion of civic responsibility or voluntary work" covers a lot in that area.

There is also "the prevention or relief of suffering of animals". That is a big thing now with people all over the country, and although the Government is now giving extraordinary funding to organisations that are doing that work, there is still a need for those organisations to be able to raise more funds.

There will be more opportunities to discuss the Bill as it moves through the various Stages. I welcome the Bill on behalf of our party and look forward to making further contributions to it as we move along. Most people to whom I speak in this sector say it is a good idea and is very welcome. I would be glad if the Minister of State would clarify when summing up the few issues on which I seek clarification. I thank him for being here.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I thank Members for their contributions to this important debate. Our charities sector plays a crucial role in connecting the wider public with opportunities to support and improve communities and society at large. It also plays an integral role in the provision of services to our communities. The purpose of this Bill is to strengthen this valued sector, ensuring greater transparency, clarity and fairness, which will serve to enhance public confidence in the sector and will consolidate the existing legal framework for the Charities Regulator to conduct its statutory functions. Throughout the process, my officials and I have actively engaged with the charities sector to listen and take on board the observations of a wide number of stakeholders.The Bill takes account of the operational experience of the regulator in the years since its establishment in 2014, and the legislation has been revised and strengthened as a result.

I will address a couple matters that were raised. Senator Burke raised the question specifically of GoFundMe, but that is the broader issue of crowdfunding. To clarify the position on that, crowdfunding tends to occur when a person or group seeks donations for an individual person or a specific cause, for example, seeking funds to pay for treatment for a sick child or adult. In most of these cases, the requisite public benefit element of the charity test would not be met and therefore they would not be required to apply to register as a charity. Very often, it is of a private benefit and would not pass the charity test that the regulator has, so it generally does not come in under the scope of this legislation.

If it is a charity running a GoFundMe page, that is a different situation. If it is an individual holding out to be a charity, that is a different situation as well. The Charities Regulator has no role in respect of fundraising by persons or groups that are not charities other than to ensure that such persons or groups do not hold themselves out as charities in contravention of the Act. Where it comes to the attention to the regulator that a person or group is fundraising in contravention of the Charities Act by referring to themselves or holding themselves out as a charity, the regulator will endeavour to make contact with the person or group concerned, along with the fundraising platform, to address the matter. If a group does not hold itself out as a charity, it is essentially private individuals interacting with private individuals online.

Senator McDowell raised a number of questions and issues. The addition of the advancement of human rights as a charitable purpose will allow charitable organisations to apply to be on the register under this specific charitable purpose. When the Senator was speaking, he indicated that it would automatically happen to a large swathe of organisations. That will not be the case. There will be an application process. The introduction of the advancement of human rights as a charitable purpose will require a post-enactment transition period to facilitate the applications of those organisations currently working in the area of human rights that are not registered as charities. Human rights is a concept already recognised and defined on a statutory footing in Ireland under the European Convention on Human Rights Act and, as the Senator referred to indirectly, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Act 2014, respectively. However, Ireland is unusual among common law jurisdictions in not having the advancement of human rights defined as a charitable purpose. By comparison, in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland respectively all recognise the advancement of human rights within their respective legislation. Notably as well, among the recommendations arising from the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality report on the review of the Charities Act 2009 was a suggestion to amend the 2009 Act to include the advancement of human rights in its list of charitable purposes noted in section 3 of the same Act. In the continued absence of this definition, an anomaly has consequently arisen whereby organisations operating in the field of human rights advancement in Ireland can register as a charity under a number of other charitable purposes, such as the advancement of education, however, there is no charitable purpose that specifically mentions the advancement of human rights. The register of charities consequently does not accurately reflect the structure and nature of the wider sector. Human rights organisations that do not register as charities are still required to establish and operate different legal structures to ensure their work is in full compliance with the law.

I am just checking on other points the Senator raised. He had a drafting question on paragraph (d). We will check into that. I cannot identify it now.

Regarding the example he described around the university, again, I do not know the details, but educational institutions are exempt from many of the reporting requirements, if that is what it is. If it is a charity as well, as I mentioned in my opening contribution, there are exceptional situations where a trustee can be paid, but that now needs to go through a new process as well. I do not know the exact legal character of the organisation the Senator was talking about, and it will depend on what that is.

I know there are concerns out there when people hear there is a new law coming in relating to charities, and when people are trustees, they might get worried about extra requirements. I am glad Senator Murphy took the opportunity to underline this. That is not the case. In fact, trustees’ responsibilities are laid out simply in a couple lines. Much of it is not unreasonable to ask someone. When people read them and realise that these are the requirements, they will probably be relieved to know there is nothing hidden there. The requirements are quite reasonable. The Senator also raised the issue of the human rights, which I addressed.

I thank everyone for their contributions. I look forward to moving on to the next stage of the Bill.

Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Next Tuesday.

Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.