Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell.

Mary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach. I thank the Minister of State and while I appreciate this is not his Department's area, my experience of him is that he always goes back and advocates very strongly on my behalf and that he fulfils his word and commitment to Members. I really appreciate it and am delighted to see him here this morning.

In the aftermath of Covid, the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Department of Education identified correctly that the mental health and well-being of children had deteriorated across the State. The best way forward was to put in place well-being and mental health supports in schools throughout the country. I thought that was brilliant, that it was the right place for it and that having councillors available within the school would be a fantastic way forward. Then one would have a position whereby a problem in a child's life does not blow up into a crisis because direct intervention goes on there and then.

It was my understanding that in a number of budgets, we provided the funding for that. There have been pilot schemes and I know they are rolled out in a number of counties and, I understand, in Dublin 7 and in Dublin 11. The piece I cannot understand is that we have DEIS schools where we provide hot food because we recognise that those children, more than anybody else, need to be supported and assured that they can focus on their education and their personal development. Yet, we have a whole plethora of those schools who do not have any of these well-being and mental health supports.

While there is the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, it is at a higher level and not every child needs an educational psychologist. There are children who just need somebody to chat to if they have something going on at home. They need something additional to deal with the stress. I see it with my own daughter if we are running late in traffic the stress she encounters is something else. Children perceive stress at very different levels to us as adults. The little things, such as having someone to talk to, are really important and yet this has not been rolled out.

I note that in April this year, a tender was put out for a programme to be developed and provided but that sounds like an awfully long way off. That is not something that will start in September. While I was out canvassing, I came across a most wonderful woman in Drimnagh who received training, is professionally qualified and would be a fantastic play therapist. When she went to the local school in Drimnagh, she was told that while the school was aware of what the Minister had said, the reality on the ground was there was no funding to engage her.

I seek an explanation and a timeline on that. When are children going to get these supports? Another one of my campaigns, as the Minister of State knows, is that we enforce the digital age of consent in respect of children on smartphones. Children literally are being left to their own devices, when one reads the CyberSafe Ireland statistics. What happens if children see something online and they cannot say it to their parents? They are in need of those supports.

At the moment, I am dealing with a number of cases of racial bullying that are just horrific and I am supporting those families. That child goes to a school where there are no supports. They are relying on teachers who are already quite challenged in their jobs and already trying to be everything to a child as well as giving them a great education. I feel we need an update and maybe we need a campaign arising from that to hurry this up. I am looking forward to what the Minister of State is going to say.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Seery Kearney for raising this important matter. This is a debate I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley. The particular area of well-being falls under her direct remit. This debate gives me an opportunity to update the House on the mental health supports for primary and post-primary schools provided by the Department of Education.

As always, Senator Seery Kearney is up to date on where things stand but I can certainly add a few elements. As the Senator said, this is something that the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, and the Government are absolutely committed to doing. That has been acknowledged by the Senator. In June 2023, after coming into government, the Minister launched a €5 million pilot scheme of counselling and well-being supports in primary schools in selected counties, complementing the excellent work that schools already undertake in the area of well-being. This was alongside other services provided by the State through the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, the HSE and CAMHS, which have already been referenced.

Counselling in primary schools has two strands. Strand 1 sees direct counselling supports being provided to primary schools for the first time. The Department of Education has set up county panels to pre-approve private counselling, which will allow for one-to-one counselling in primary schools in the counties of Cavan, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Mayo, Monaghan and Tipperary. In total, 778 blocks of counselling have been allocated to schools in the pilot counties, which provide for an allocation to 778 children. To date, 36 counsellors have been recruited across the seven pilot counties.

Strand 2, which is an area that the Senator focused in on and which is also up and running, is the introduction of education well-being teams. In schools in Cork and Carlow, and in particular in Dublin 7, there is a focus on providing support to pupils, parents and schools, especially primary schools. Fifteen education practitioners have been recruited to the four cluster areas to carry out an extensive training programme provided by NEPS. As this is a pilot, it is not possible to include all schools. An evaluation is being commissioned to review both sides of the pilot. Through the pilot evaluation, the Department is confident that it will gather valuable learning that will inform future policy and provision in this area.

The Senator made specific reference to DEIS schools. It could be communicated directly to the Minister, Deputy Foley, that the pilot should have a specific focus on such areas. I spoke about this with the officials in the Department in advance of this debate. They are looking to get that pilot under way later in the year. Separately, to supplement support for post-primary schools, the Minister of Education has published a tender that relates solely to that area of education. The tender is for the purpose of procuring services that further support well-being and mental health in post-primary schools, and working with the Department to develop and deliver additional supports to complement existing systems and structures. The priority is to adequately support students, parents and school staff. The tender contract will be awarded soon and will commence by July 2024. That is the progress taking place in the post-primary area. Strands 1 and 2 are under way within primary education.

A dedicated well-being portal can be accessed via Wellbeing in Education on Gov.ie, bringing together the extensive well-being and mental health supports and resources that have been developed by the Department of Education and the Department’s support services. I note the point the Senator has raised. To recap, strands 1 and 2 are already under way for primary schools and there is a subsidiary tender going out for post-primary. A review of the pilot will take place this year. I note the points made and there are matters I will bring back to the Minister for Education. I look forward to the Senator's comments.

Mary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for the additional preparation he always does in advance of taking a Commencement matter. I appreciate the need for standards. I see that we have those through the Minister of State's reply; of course we do. When we look at the figures, we see that 100 hours of play therapy could be provided for eight children at a cost of €6,000. It is small money in a school. The parents cannot afford it themselves. If they could afford it, their child would not be in a school where they need a hot meals programme. We are getting caught up in the technicalities of a formal programme that is rolled out and has to have a pilot and to be assessed and overseen. I agree with all of that because there are charlatans operating under the guise of psychologists' titles, but we need effective programmes very quickly for the well-being of children. While there is a portal, that portal will rely on parents having to pay for it. We need a mechanism for establishing these programmes. I ask for that message to be brought to the Minister. That is what I am going to campaign for.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Seery Kearney for her contribution. I note that she is looking at the programme in a very structured fashion. The Senator will appreciate the fact, as she has already referenced, that there is a need for an evaluation both on a qualitative and a quantitative basis. That will take place. The Senator raises a very interesting point in terms of play therapy and the hours being provided. I have no doubt it is a matter that she will put serious thought into, in terms of polishing it. It is something I am sure she will bring up with the Minister, Deputy Foley. I will bring her comments directly to the Minister today on the specific matters raised.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Seery Kearney and the Minister of State. We appreciate that the Minister of State is staying with us for the four Commencement matters this morning.